Ukraine - Russia Conflict

jetray said:
EU is unwittingly digging a big hole for itself. Influx of weapons into europe is going to make things worse, its not just terrorists but even gangs when they lay their hands on these weapons will make things worse for law enforcement. EU already has a non-native immigrant muslim population which are not able integrate into main society and when they get their hands on these weapons it will be fireworks unlimited.

Ironically EU & US are the same thing on their soil which they did all over the world, pumping weapons so ppl can kill each other and benefit from it.
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What do you think Russia has in Chechnya? Chechens have been fighting on both sides or this war, Georgians and Azerbaijanis on the side of Ukraine. In Europe it's just a few nut jobs who cause problems among Muslims, in Chechnya and surrounding countries, you have entire armies of Muslims who want to destroy Putin because of both Syria and Chechnya. How big is that hole tell me?
 
BMD said:
What in the name of holy cow-fccking hell are you talking about?
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Pointing out that had European security been run by Europe instead of the US, then this war wouldn't have happened because Europe wouldn't have been stupid enough to provoke Russia so blatantly.
 
randomradio said:
Nope, more like a Johnny Depp argument.


Russia warned the West to stop NATO expansion to prevent war. The West didn't listen. Russia started war. Simple.
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Where was NATO expanding to at the time exactly? Ukraine first applied for NATO membership in 2008, so is this some kind of delayed reaction or something?

That wasn't what caused the war, NATO has only ever been a defensive alliance within Europe. What caused the problem was Ukrainians wanting to join the EU, which would have taken trade away from Russia, Putin couldn't accept that and went behind their back to head it off in 2013, the result was the Maidan revolution. His own idiotic fault. He then responded by annexing Crimea and warring in the Donbass, which led to Ukraine wanting to join NATO even more.

A cascade of errors, all made by Putin. Putin thinks all adjacent countries belong to him.

randomradio said:
Pointing out that had European security been run by Europe instead of the US, then this war wouldn't have happened because Europe wouldn't have been stupid enough to provoke Russia so blatantly.
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This issue is completely about the EU. Don't let Putin's forked tongue comments about him not being bothered about Ukraine joining the EU fool you, he already knew he'd made a deal with Yanukovych to join the EEU when he made that comment. It's always about economics. It's not like the US and EU had even been seeing eye-to-eye. European security was ran by Europe and not the US, that's why the poor dumb barstards made the mistake of becoming reliant of Russian oil.
 
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The Ukrainian army continues to use limited aircraft in some places. A video of an operational airfield of the Ukrainian army created in the field in the area between Ivanovka and Ryasnopol in the Odessa region has appeared. It is possible that the spontaneous airfield has already disappeared, since Russian intelligence is working quickly. In the video, you can see three Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopters and one Mi-2 helicopter. The video also shows the combat operation of the Mi-8 helicopter of Ukraine, the pilots attack from afar, in the nose-up mode, just like Russian pilots do in Ukraine.



A new batch of Western weapons has arrived in Ukraine, a trainload of British Warrior MCV-80 armored personnel carriers has been spotted. Serial production of the BMP Warrior MCV-80 began in 1985. The armored vehicle is equipped with a 30 mm L21A1 automatic cannon, with which a 7.62 mm machine gun is paired. The Warrior BMP has a significant drawback - the lack of stabilization of the 30-mm cannon, because of this, it is advisable to fire while stopped. Despite this, Warrior in terms of reliability and survivability has proven itself well in the war in Iraq. Some versions of the armored personnel carrier were equipped with Chobham armor; there is a known case when such armor withstood 12 RPG hits in Iraq, but these versions were not delivered to Ukraine. Now the Warrior MCV-80 is in service with Britain and Kuwait, but is gradually being replaced by the German BMP Boxer. The speed on the highway BTR Warrior 75 km / h, cruising range 500 km. The crew of the BMP is 3 people, the number of soldiers transported is 7.

 
randomradio said:
Russia warned the West to stop NATO expansion to prevent war. The West didn't listen. Russia started war. Simple.
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So if China attacks India, India is at fault because of Quad? - That's your own dumbness spoken back at you. Aside from the fact that isn't the reason at all, as mentioned above.
 
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jetray said:
EU is unwittingly digging a big hole for itself. Influx of weapons into europe is going to make things worse, its not just terrorists but even gangs when they lay their hands on these weapons will make things worse for law enforcement. EU already has a non-native immigrant muslim population which are not able integrate into main society and when they get their hands on these weapons it will be fireworks unlimited.

Ironically EU & US are the same thing on their soil which they did all over the world, pumping weapons so ppl can kill each other and benefit from it.
Click to expand...

I can't wrap my head around why Europe so willingly gave away its sovereignty. Pre-EU, I can understand. But post-EU?

I get it from the American PoV. To them, the EU and India are practically sacrificial pawns, or just useful idiots. But India recognises the threat. And we saw the ridiculous, over-the-top reaction the Americans had when they realised India isn't interested in following American diktats. But was Europe under the assumption that the US will prioritise European security interests over American... Like, how does that work?

At this time, I have no clue how the Germans will react if some types of weapons end up in the hands of their multicultural experiment gone wrong.
 
BMD said:
Where was NATO expanding to at the time exactly? Ukraine first applied for NATO membership in 2008, so is this some kind of delayed reaction or something?

That wasn't what caused the war, NATO has only ever been a defensive alliance within Europe. What caused the problem was Ukrainians wanting to join the EU, which would have taken trade away from Russia, Putin couldn't accept that and went behind their back to head it off in 2013, the result was the Maidan revolution. His own idiotic fault. He then responded by annexing Crimea and warring in the Donbass, which led to Ukraine wanting to join NATO even more.

A cascade of errors, all made by Putin. Putin thinks all adjacent countries belong to him.


This issue is completely about the EU. Don't let Putin's forked tongue comments about him not being bothered about Ukraine joining the EU fool you, he already knew he'd made a deal with Yanukovych to join the EEU when he made that comment. It's always about economics. It's not like the US and EU had even been seeing eye-to-eye. European security was ran by Europe and not the US, that's why the poor dumb barstards made the mistake of becoming reliant of Russian oil.
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You have a very myopic view of the situation.

Warsaw Pact countries should never have been allowed to enter NATO. Rather a proper arrangement should have been made with the Russians to ensure their sovereignty and security.

Even if that did end up happening, ex-USSR states shouldn't have been touched.
 
randomradio said:
The victim is the West? Can see where the logic fails?
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Oh, of course Russia is the victim. They invaded their way from Europe to East Asia, started the USSR and annexed Eastern Europe, USSR dissolved and then they'd already annexed parts of 3 other European countries before they invaded Ukraine and outlawed dissent in Russia..... But Russia is the victim and the West are the imperialists. :rolleyes:
 
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