Twin-Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF)

Aniruddha said:
The IAF should stick to operating fixed wing aircraft and not rotary. Why are the Apaches and Chinooks with the IAF and not the IA.
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As part of IAF loot which they ensured for thier own officers and all politicians involved in the deal. Who would not not like such a force which makes everyone rich? IN does not help you as they go in for indigenous products first and only after that foreign stuff. BUT IAF goes only for foreign stuff.
 
vstol Jockey said:
As part of IAF loot which they ensured for thier own officers and all politicians involved in the deal. Who would not not like such a force which makes everyone rich? IN does not help you as they go in for indigenous products first and only after that foreign stuff. BUT IAF goes only for foreign stuff.
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IAF favouring import stuff is what has led to its downfall. Thankfully the new air chief seems like a breath of fresh air as he himself was an LCA pilot when we were under American sanctions because of Pokhran tests.
 
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Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
TEDBF program for the Indian Navy aims to provide a 24-tonne Twin-engine fighter aircraft which will replace the Mig-29K fleet in the Indian Navy. Navy has asked ADA for TEDBF to be better than the Russian Supplied Mig-29K fighter jets which currently operates on the deck of (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201399486339141633
)

Do read the entire thread. It's very informative & interesting.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
TEDBF program for the Indian Navy aims to provide a 24-tonne Twin-engine fighter aircraft which will replace the Mig-29K fleet in the Indian Navy. Navy has asked ADA for TEDBF to be better than the Russian Supplied Mig-29K fighter jets which currently operates on the deck of (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201399486339141633
)

Do read the entire thread. It's very informative & interesting.
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I had given the presentation of LSA to IN in Nov 2016 and followed it up with the twin engined MSA in mid 2017. In my first interaction itself I had told IN that LCA in any of its variants will not meet the needs of IN and I was asked alot of questions as to whay I made those remarks. IN soon after cancelled LCA as its choice for deck ops.
 
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Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
ADA’s Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) program for Indian Navy hasn’t seen any official reaction from the IAF yet but IAF was aware of the program but still decided to stick with the MWF- Mk 2 showcased at Aero India 2019 earlier this year. When asked Aerodynamics on Twitter (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1204300932067971073
)

Do read the entire thread.
 
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I think at this point we are stretching ADA a bit too far.We need a separate aerospace design institution.A separate institution would create a sense of competition and would allow programs to develop faster and stick to timelines.

Currently ADA has Tejas mk1A,Tejas mk2 MWF,AMCA and Ghatak along with Naval Tejas.

Thats almost half a dozen big ticket aerospace programs,more than what a single institution can handle.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
ADA’s Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) program for Indian Navy hasn’t seen any official reaction from the IAF yet but IAF was aware of the program but still decided to stick with the MWF- Mk 2 showcased at Aero India 2019 earlier this year. When asked Aerodynamics on Twitter (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1204300932067971073
)

Do read the entire thread.
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Feels like someone from **** team. Same MO, fictional based on an available premise.

AdityaH2R said:
I think at this point we are stretching ADA a bit too far.We need a separate aerospace design institution.A separate institution would create a sense of competition and would allow programs to develop faster and stick to timelines.

Currently ADA has Tejas mk1A,Tejas mk2 MWF,AMCA and Ghatak along with Naval Tejas.

Thats almost half a dozen big ticket aerospace programs,more than what a single institution can handle.
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LCA mk1A is under HAL now. Naval LCA might get replaced with TEDBF program for better or worse.
 
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Ashwin said:
LCA mk1A is under HAL now. Naval LCA might get replaced with TEDBF program for better or worse.
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That still leaves ADA with MWF,AMCA and this new TEDBF.I dont know of any other aerospace developmental institution being involved in so many diverse and so many programs at the same time.

We should do 2 things to improve and expand our Aerospace industry.

1. Expand the size of ADA.
2. Create another separate institution.

And invite private players,If possible provide them with atleast 1 production line for tejas mk2 MWF.

And 1 more thing is that i dont understand the logic of TEDBF.
Why does Navy wants a home-grown 2x engine fighter?At best they will order 100-120 of these provided they totally get rid of mig-29ks and the Naval MMRCA deal,That still doesnt covers the crazy development costs and any production run of less than 200 jets will only make this project very expensive and would rack up the per unit price of the jet.

The most logical thing for Navy would be to stick to F/A-18 hornet and get the IAC-3 vishal moving in next 2-3 years.

100-120 fighters covers us well for 3 carrier force that we are aiming for.Unless we scale up our carriers both in numbers and size,there is no need for more than 120 fighter jets in the navy.
 
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Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
TEDBF program will be based on the MWF jet thus making it more like an Mk2 program. It is not a clean-sheet design as per some media reports it will be based on existing design to cut down on time required to develop it and will use the same nose and front fuselage and cockpit Aerodynamics on Twitter (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1213081322639376384
)

Interesting Thread
Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
TEDBF program will be based on the MWF jet thus making it more like an Mk2 program. It is not a clean-sheet design as per some media reports it will be based on existing design to cut down on time required to develop it and will use the same nose and front fuselage and cockpit Aerodynamics on Twitter (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1213081322639376384
)

Interesting Thread
 
AdityaH2R said:
That still leaves ADA with MWF,AMCA and this new TEDBF.I dont know of any other aerospace developmental institution being involved in so many diverse and so many programs at the same time.

We should do 2 things to improve and expand our Aerospace industry.

1. Expand the size of ADA.
2. Create another separate institution.

And invite private players,If possible provide them with atleast 1 production line for tejas mk2 MWF.

And 1 more thing is that i dont understand the logic of TEDBF.
Why does Navy wants a home-grown 2x engine fighter?At best they will order 100-120 of these provided they totally get rid of mig-29ks and the Naval MMRCA deal,That still doesnt covers the crazy development costs and any production run of less than 200 jets will only make this project very expensive and would rack up the per unit price of the jet.

The most logical thing for Navy would be to stick to F/A-18 hornet and get the IAC-3 vishal moving in next 2-3 years.

100-120 fighters covers us well for 3 carrier force that we are aiming for.Unless we scale up our carriers both in numbers and size,there is no need for more than 120 fighter jets in the navy.
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What surprises me most is that you don't seem to be able to see the overwhelming superiority of the Rafale over the F-18 for the IN.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
What surprises me most is that you don't seem to be able to see the overwhelming superiority of the Rafale over the F-18 for the IN.
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We dont have infinite sum of forex so we gotta spend every penny carefully.
if an indigenous equipment does the job well enough then we should buy that and build the eco system around it to make it even more potent.

________________________________________________________________

And what OVERWHELMING superiority you are talking about,Rafale(and earlier variants F1,F2 and F3) will be pretty obsolete in 2030s environment.That gap will be filled by TEDBF.
 
Ashwin said:
In cost?
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Yes even in cost if you take into account the LCC. Because the operational cost of a plane is routhly proportional to the empty mass of the plane and Rafale is less than 10 T and F-18 is more than 14 T....and Rafale maintenance is way more modern than F-18 one.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
Yes even in cost if you take into account the LCC. Because the operational cost of a plane is routhly proportional to the empty mass of the plane and Rafale is less than 10 T and F-18 is more than 14 T....and rafale maintenance is way more modern than F-18 one.
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A single rafale costed us almost 220 million USD each.
That is the opposite of cost effectiveness.

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We are better off equipping indian armed froces with local equipment.
 
AdityaH2R said:
We dont have infinite sum of forex so we gotta spend every penny carefully.
if an indigenous equipment does the job well enough then we should buy that and build the eco system around it to make it even more potent.

________________________________________________________________

And what OVERWHELMING superiority you are talking about,Rafale(and earlier variants F1,F2 and F3) will be pretty obsolete in 2030s environment.That gap will be filled by TEDBF.
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LCC cost!
And all French Rafale are currently at F3-R standard. Each time there is a new standard, we retrofit all Rafale for very few money... It's not a US plane! After that the hardware configuration could be different but the new standard is able to manage all the old configuration and frequently old and new hardware are plug and play.
 
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