The significance of Arihant

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
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Mumbai
You indians confuse staellites with nukes... Both are entirely different..
YOu can launch as big a rocket as you want , carrying as much fuel as you want and take as many days in preparations as you want, to launch satellites as there is no rush..
You cannot do the same in nuclear deterrance case...
Thats why Countries actually built seperate vehicles for their nuclear weapons instead of retrofitting nukes on existing satellite rockets...
First understand the difference between the two..
We aren't discussing India's capabilities but yours. Our SLBM ( & probably land based) MIRV will be tested early next decade.
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
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You indians confuse staellites with nukes... Both are entirely different..
YOu can launch as big a rocket as you want , carrying as much fuel as you want and take as many days in preparations as you want, to launch satellites as there is no rush..
You cannot do the same in nuclear deterrance case...
Thats why Countries actually built seperate vehicles for their nuclear weapons instead of retrofitting nukes on existing satellite rockets...
First understand the difference between the two..

So you think I do not know the difference between a space rocket vs a ballistic missile? The reference was made to highlight the technological superiority India enjoys on Pakistan. Why not talk about the research published by Indians as compared to Pakistan? I know India fares poor against other countries, but here the other party is Pakistan. How come with almost zero civilian tech base, Pakistan can afford high military tech?

Coming back to deterrence, explain how MIRV is part of sure second strike when complete removal of land based system is the pre requisite in first strike by enemy - that include BM and aircraft capable to deliver nukes.

MIRV comes into picture when a BM make it to the air.
 
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lcafanboy

Senior member
Dec 22, 2017
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Yeah man...India is soooo rich :geek:
Yep! In PPP terms India is already 3rd largest economy at around 12 trillion dollars. 😎😎

I just wanted to say we do things more efficiently and we don't have to pay salary in dollars so 650million for Britain will be not more than 200-250 million for India...
 

lcafanboy

Senior member
Dec 22, 2017
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I cannot appreciate the joke that India can actually be a rival to China in anything military...
Ask Chinese who don't find it funny and were pissing in pants during doklam which is not even Indian land..

And now with QUAD US Japan Australia and India, China knows what they are dealing with.😁😁😁
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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The answer is no...

The concept of SLBM was a cold war era doctrine . The ultra expensive machines were built for "Dooms day" scenrio and as the last end game war machine.
That was entirely different situation..
Both USA and USSR had 10,000 megatons of nukes each and could annihilate every square inch of each other many times over.. So SSBn was needed for second strike as firest strike from the enemy wont leave any land based nukes...
How many megatons India nd Pakistan have? Combined total may be less than 20 megatons and noty enough to annihilate each other.. So both countries will have surviving land based nuclear missiles for second strike after the other launches a first strike.

For being safe and hiodden the machines need to be far far away in the open deep oceans and even there are susceptible to detection.
With just 750 Km range K-15, how far away INS arihant can be srom the shore? Not much...
Also the SSBN need to be big and hace cumbursome machinary fitted whicvh does make noise... In cold war era both USA and USSR used to hise their subs underneath the arctic polar ice ...because the grinding cracking ice sheets made too much noise underwater and masked the noise made by SSBN,making them undetectable..
How India will make such arrangements?

The belief is give enough time, land based nukes are easily compromised and weak to a first strike.

As for noise, the IOR has heavy traffic and warm waters have thermal layers. It's safer to operate a submarine in the tropics than in the Arctic.
 

lcafanboy

Senior member
Dec 22, 2017
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For now our MIRV will do...something India does not have.
Oh you mean that Chinese green painted Tin Can you people call Ababeel. So how many tests were done for MIRV. Cause last I have fotos of this missile failing during testing.

WRT to India's MIRV capabilities. We launch multiple satellites at one go with highest being 101 satellites making world record. This same technology is used in MIRV missiles. So except Pakistan no one doubt our capabilities. And with that secret missile tracking ship which will enter service shortly we can track each RV from MIRVed missiles. Also post 2020 when we get S-400s entire Pakistani air space will become no fly zone if India wants so how do you intend to throw that Chinese TIN CAN on us..😁😁😁

You indians confuse staellites with nukes... Both are entirely different..
YOu can launch as big a rocket as you want , carrying as much fuel as you want and take as many days in preparations as you want, to launch satellites as there is no rush..
You cannot do the same in nuclear deterrance case...
Thats why Countries actually built seperate vehicles for their nuclear weapons instead of retrofitting nukes on existing satellite rockets...
First understand the difference between the two..
Reposting, here's warheads 1980s technology Prithvi carry..
mystery-warhead-jpg.3135


img_20180910_224845_444-jpg.3136




And this is how it disperse and shower fire...

img_20180910_224701_813-jpg.3137


img_20180910_224913_389-jpg.3138


img_20180910_224922_344-jpg.3139



@safriz does pakistan still doubts India's MIRV capabilities. Prithvi demonstrated M trajectory and this capabilities in 1980s... Now think what newer Indian missiles are capable of.
 

safriz

Well-Known member
Jan 1, 2018
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670
UK, Pakistan
Oh you mean that Chinese green painted Tin Can you people call Ababeel. So how many tests were done for MIRV. Cause last I have fotos of this missile failing during testing.

WRT to India's MIRV capabilities. We launch multiple satellites at one go with highest being 101 satellites making world record. This same technology is used in MIRV missiles. So except Pakistan no one doubt our capabilities. And with that secret missile tracking ship which will enter service shortly we can track each RV from MIRVed missiles. Also post 2020 when we get S-400s entire Pakistani air space will become no fly zone if India wants so how do you intend to throw that Chinese TIN CAN on us..😁😁😁


Reposting, here's warheads 1980s technology Prithvi carry..
mystery-warhead-jpg.3135


img_20180910_224845_444-jpg.3136




And this is how it disperse and shower fire...

img_20180910_224701_813-jpg.3137


img_20180910_224913_389-jpg.3138


img_20180910_224922_344-jpg.3139



@safriz does pakistan still doubts India's MIRV capabilities. Prithvi demonstrated M trajectory and this capabilities in 1980s... Now think what newer Indian missiles are capable of.
What you are boasting about is not MIRV..
Its plain old Cluster munition.. Something invented and used since WW2.
220px-Demonstration_cluster_bomb[1].jpg


Here is another picture of Soviet / Russian Tochka Tactical Ballistic missile with Cluster munition warhead, which is pretty common in all Tactical range Missiles same as Prithvi , and no its not classesd as MIRV.

fjkGwLl-bieoyp9lYJj6XbGYpju1elrtbBmWgmvxu8o[1].jpg
 

lcafanboy

Senior member
Dec 22, 2017
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Bangalore
What you are boasting about is not MIRV..

Its plain old Cluster munition.. Something invented and used since WW2.

View attachment 3582



Here is another picture of Soviet / Russian Tochka Tactical Ballistic missile with Cluster munition warhead, which is pretty common in all Tactical range Missiles same as Prithvi , and no its not classesd as MIRV.



View attachment 3583

I know that and therefore made it clear 1980s technology for Prithvi missiles with M manoeuvre to avoid BMD SAM even US and other countries are amazed by the Prithvi's M manoeuvre and have since invested efforts to improve their missiles.



Regarding Indian MIRV capabilities, all the technologies required is available in India aand Agni 5/6 and K4/5 have been designed for MIRV and have been simulated on computers, but its only now we have started to move forward for physical verification since it's only now we will have tracking ships which can check efficacy and also we didn't wanted to piss off US and other western countries but now these countries are comfortable and know all these are for Lizard. Now don't fart simulation doesn't prove technology since India simulated Mars mission and it was bang on target same for multiple satellite launch simulation and then real launch.



Rest assured Agni 3/4/5/6 and K4/5 are MIRV missiles. Ababeel is at most Marv but not MIRV since minimum 3500to4000kms are needed for MIRV missiles.☺
 

lcafanboy

Senior member
Dec 22, 2017
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Bangalore
For now our MIRV will do...something India does not have.
Something very interesting for you. See satellite images of impending Ababeel launch in Jan 2018 all NOTAM issued with 2900 KM's range but suddenly missile disappeared from launch site suggesting Chinese Maal failed to launch...😁😁😁😁
Also shows our capabilities to track each and every missiles Pakistan has enjoy...☺☺☺


 

lcafanboy

Senior member
Dec 22, 2017
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2,651
Bangalore
Its been 77 years and this wet dream of many Indians did not happen. Keep dreaming. :sneaky::sneaky:
We had KHANGRESS then who were more interested in pappi jhappi but now we've got ultra nationalist BJP in power and look what it did in last 4 1/2 years to Pakistan. Imran going begging around and Pakistani army men are being found in gutters and killed in accident across Pakistan...😁😁😁
Baluchistan, Gilgit Baltistan, Pashto, etc. We're now giving you back your 1000 cuts, enjoy the blood...🙂
 
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lcafanboy

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Dec 22, 2017
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What's the difference between MaRV & MIRV? Can you elaborate?
In MaRV all RV have same target albeit they are dispersed, while in MIRV each RV can be assigned individual targets. So if MaRVed ababeel missile is launched all RV will go to either Mumbai or Delhi or any other target in dispersed manner detonating at different places in same city or area. While in MIRV missiles you can target different cities and military installations at same time using different RV present on the same missile so a single Agni 5 with 3 or 5 RV will finish 3to5 Pak China cities. MIRVed missiles are difficult to make and only 7 nations have this capability including India, Pakistan is definitely not
 

Abingdonboy

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
154
388
UK
The significance of Arihant is that we can do this now as a nation.

deploy SSBNs armed with nuclear SLBMs at sea. Doing what it is designed to do.

Hail it and savor it, gentlemen.

Rest is just munching on this excellent piece of news.

And the place where it might feel some real heat will be the SCS. India needs a naval base in Vietnam. That should be our priority in South Asian region.
There's no rush, It's better to take a slow and methodical process than to rush ahead and make mistakes. This is not an area where mistakes can be afforded- the US and Soviets can attest to this.

What is also crucial, beyond just putting the boats in the water is all of the support apparatus around them- the crews, the pens, the supply etc etc. They are all very specialist and take time to be built up if you want to do it properly.

There's a reason why there are almost no nations that have SSBNs, if it was easy everyone would do it. And fools like the Pakistanis that think this is a simple plug and play product like a fighter jet or helicopter betray their own ignorance and misplaced sense of their own place in the world.

The moment should be savoured no doubt, it is a true landmark in India's story and future generations will look back on this moment.
 
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metaphysician

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Dec 25, 2017
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You indians confuse staellites with nukes... Both are entirely different..
YOu can launch as big a rocket as you want , carrying as much fuel as you want and take as many days in preparations as you want, to launch satellites as there is no rush..
You cannot do the same in nuclear deterrance case...
Thats why Countries actually built seperate vehicles for their nuclear weapons instead of retrofitting nukes on existing satellite rockets...
First understand the difference between the two..
says a person whose country is well known for begging and borrowing everything from missiles to nuclear bomb blueprints and fighter jets ...... from biradar or father china .
the world has also seen how pakistan treats aq khan , so called scientist who ragpicked and stole incomplete blueprints to make a nuclear bomb with the help of china .
so stop bragging about your nuclear might which is hollow and dependent on the mercy of other nations like china .
 
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safriz

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Jan 1, 2018
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says a person whose country is well known for begging and borrowing everything from missiles to nuclear bomb blueprints and fighter jets ...... from biradar or father china .
the world has also seen how pakistan treats aq khan , so called scientist who ragpicked and stole incomplete blueprints to make a nuclear bomb with the help of china .
so stop bragging about your nuclear might which is hollow and dependent on the mercy of other nations like china .
The whole of US Rocket program was stolen from Germans.. So was their Hydrogen bomb program.
The whole of Russian Jet engine program was stolen from British..
So stealing in technology is a norm.. Deal with it.
 

Bon Plan

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Dec 1, 2017
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The answer is no...

The concept of SLBM was a cold war era doctrine . The ultra expensive machines were built for "Dooms day" scenrio and as the last end game war machine.
That was entirely different situation..
Both USA and USSR had 10,000 megatons of nukes each and could annihilate every square inch of each other many times over.. So SSBn was needed for second strike as firest strike from the enemy wont leave any land based nukes...
How many megatons India nd Pakistan have? Combined total may be less than 20 megatons and noty enough to annihilate each other.. So both countries will have surviving land based nuclear missiles for second strike after the other launches a first strike.

For being safe and hiodden the machines need to be far far away in the open deep oceans and even there are susceptible to detection.
With just 750 Km range K-15, how far away INS arihant can be srom the shore? Not much...
Also the SSBN need to be big and hace cumbursome machinary fitted whicvh does make noise... In cold war era both USA and USSR used to hise their subs underneath the arctic polar ice ...because the grinding cracking ice sheets made too much noise underwater and masked the noise made by SSBN,making them undetectable..
How India will make such arrangements?
It's probably possible to destroy or dammage land based missiles with classical weapon. Brahmos... Brahmos2...

The last gen SSBN are so silent that they are virtually undetectable. See how 2 french and UK SSBN hurted together without any detection. So no need to patrol under the ice if your sub is silent enough.
 

Bon Plan

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Dec 1, 2017
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The whole of US Rocket program was stolen from Germans.. So was their Hydrogen bomb program.
OK for rocket.
Absolutely not for nuke. The german top brass never really thaught about this kind of weapon. And their main physicians were already out of germany.