That easily? They're at a weak point right now due to OPS-EPS infighting, but what happens if they truly come together out of fear of political death/irrelevance? Plus, what about Dinakaran? Or is he simply going to start a completely new party now?
South Indian Politics : Discussions
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That easily? They're at a weak point right now due to OPS-EPS infighting, but what happens if they truly come together out of fear of political death/irrelevance? Plus, what about Dinakaran? Or is he simply going to start a completely new party now?
They'd survive not thrive . JJ like the Karunanidhi family were the centripetal force that held both their respective parties together denying gravity it's due . Within the AIADMK , that force no longer exists .
One interesting phenomenon observed is the presence of various caste based parties in TN like the PMK , MDMK ( not exactly confined to voicing the concerns of one caste but certainly restricted to a particular region ) , DMDK , etc . Let's not forget that in spite of the charisma of JJ & the Karunanidhi family these fronts were successful to a limited extent in holding their own , without succumbing, forcing the bigger players into accommodating them . Once the AIADMK splinters , prominent sub groups from it will follow identical trajectories .
This is what will make Rajni's task all the more difficult. The days where an Annadurai or Kamaraj or even MGR were successful in convincing voters to bring their respective outfits to power on their own has passed .
Here ,let me inform you that even during MGR's rule the Congress under IG & later RG had a coalition pact with the AIADMK brokered by JJ under MGR's stewardship , though this has more to do with accommodating the Congress and preventing it from its usual habit of getting rival state governments dismissed by the governor largely under IG's rule under some silly pretext .
All this came to an end when SR Bommai successfully challenged his dismissal in the courts under RG's premiership after which this sordid practise came to an end .
When the liberal & left mafia raise concerns about the "undemocratic nature " of the BJP , the usual argument centres around the emergency. One wonders why the former is never brought up to highlight the "stream of democracy flowing in the veins" of all Congressmen.
But then the RW the world over are hardly known for intellectually strong arguments confining themselves mostly to emotive topics .
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Greater national interests for whom? This interests should benefit everyone in the population. Not a select elite few. And define how national interest will be mutual in nation states age? Do you think this is 1100AD where country will ally with each others for war speaking of self interests?
Today's self interests is limited to trade and movement. What gains will you get for example by pleasing SL or BD? If Chinese submarine is berthing then its the failure of Indian FP not to allow neighbouring countries berthing to CHinese ships. They should be strongly in our orbit. Remember US didnt allow Soviet berthing of ships in Cuba even though it was an independent country. We should utilise our power when needed, whether they hate us or not. But should make sure our own population doesnt hate the country at all costs. Only one advantage in BD, militancy has declined and transportation is being increased. But both the countries are still buying Chinese weapons. Which brings it back to stage 1.
Rajini wont even win 1 seat if he allys with BJP pre-election. Even Rajini's fan association leaders have spoken it, that they will walk out if he allies himself with BJP. That's the level of BJP right now that they got less seats than NOTA in RK nagar byelection and have been the joke of social media pages.
I for one care about Tamil Nadu, not about the growth of BJP. But at the same time Tamil Culture has to be protected.Rajini is no MGR or NTR. His age is against him. But his entry has made Dravidian politicians talk about Hinduism in positive aspects
Political commentator late Cho Ramaswamy made an interesting comment long back. Tamil Nadu has always only 2 kinds of votes. One pro and another anti-karunanidhi vote. Even when AIADMK have lost elections they have got more or equal vote shares than DMK, and DMK's vote base havent grown in past 15 years. Rajini now will tap the swinging voters and disillusioned AIADMK voters base. Next elections, and according to India Today polls estimate, Rajini can win 30 seats at best, unless the ADMK even get bad names for itself or this govt falls midway. He needs to be aggressive.
After the demise of Congress from TN in early 70s, every govt in TN has had somekind of alliance with major parties of North India. same will be the case for rajini also.
For the nation...
No, a nation has its strategic interests, they may not, and usually do not, always perfectly align with what a 100% of its population needs/wants. That's immaterial. And the point about select, elite few doesn't make any sense here honestly.
Nations always have had, and always will have strategic interests and goals; and when those interests and goals of countries converge, those nations align, however permanently/temporarily and however solidly/loosely, depending on the situation. You can take the convergence of India-USA-Japan-Australia, as well as several European countries and smaller Asean countries, all against China, in interest of a free and open Indo-Pacific as an example of this. If with your 1100AD comment you were trying to imply that grand strategic games are a thing of the past, or that military coalitions and actions are a thing of the past, then you are mistaken, such things evolve with time, but do not completely disappear or end.
Wrong. It is not purely limited to trade and movement; though those are two important factors. I really don't even know how to explain all the gains of pleasing two immediate neighbors. If the myriad implications, strategic and others, aren't obvious to you, I honestly don't know what to say; other than the fact that there is nothing more important to a country than its own strategic backyard. Keeping countries like SL, BD, Nepal, Bhutan etc etc in good humor, and out of Chinese clutches, with minimal coercion to avoid causing the sort of resentment we often observe in these countries is the absolute foundation of a smart and successful foreign policy. If you piss off your own neighbors, you end up surrounded by countries who will readily get taken advantage of to stick it to you. I'm not saying this has completely materialized yet in our case, but look at the String of Pearls. If you want an example from history, go and read how Hernan Cortes brought down the Aztec Empire; he didn't do it with just a few Spanish conquistadors.
Chinese influence in our neighborhood today is the direct result of India's countless blunders and failures in foreign policy over the course of several decades, and the plain coercion you are advocating would only make things worse, further pushing these countries into China's killer embrace. Foreign policy must be handled more deftly and delicately than that. Or countries go from allowing Chinese subs to berth in your area, to allowing the Chinese to build full scale military bases in your area. The key to getting these countries in India's "orbit" is clever diplomacy, and an implied iron hand in a velvet glove, not a bullying, condescending big-brother approach.
Completely different situation for a lot of reasons, and not a very good analogy. Also, the US and Cuba were essentially enemies, and the Soviets very nearly brought nukes to the US's doorstep in the course of all that, not to mention the close military ties between USSR and Cuba which followed afterwards. So do you want to turn BD and SL into full fledged enemies? Should we embargo them too the way America embargoed Cuba? That's not smart foreign policy, that's a crash course of how to get your entire neighborhood to hate you in 10 days, China style. Today China doesn't realize it, but its bully attitude in its neighborhood is going to sink it in the future, and will be a key point for India and the US to exploit in any future conflict/confrontation with China. Do you want India to similarly surround itself with enemies, eagerly waiting to be used by foreign powers? Is one Pakistan not enough? How hard would it be for China to position or gift ballistic missiles, potentially with nuclear technology even to BD or SL or anyone else in the neighborhood after we make enemies out of them; the same way they gave those things to Pakistan?
Can't please everyone all the time, especially in India. That's totally irrelevant to national interest and foreign policy. Again; Sikhs, Kashmiris, Naxals, countless Northeastern groups like Bodos and Nagas were all Indian citizens. Their demands are not more important or even remotely as important as the country's strategic interests. And to try to start pandering to each and every single individual group (on whatever basis that group is drawn) or state is idiotic and suicidal. And it would inevitably snowball until India loses any and all semblance of being a centralized country; it would instead turn into a chaotic, anarchic, loosely tied confederation (At best) of a million different groups who all do as they please. Your suggestions on that front are a recipe for disaster and disintegration of the nation.
They buy Chinese weapons because they're cheap and effective for countries of their economic standing, and because India hasn't built the capability to mass produce such arms (especially of a certain quality level) yet, not even for its own forces. Go and read what happened to the Nepalese Army during a MAoist ambush when they tried fighting using INSAS's we had gifted/sold to them.
That can't be taken as a sign of enmity. And again, it's an incredibly shallow view if you only see those 2 advantages to working on ties with BD. There are literally so many advantages and benefits to mending ties with our neighbors that I can't even begin to list them all.
I don't see why those two things have to be mutually exclusive, in fact, I'd argue they're mutually inclusive.
And how is it at threat? Are you implying BJP is a threat to it? How so? BJP ruled Karnataka, is sharing power in AP, and has a decent presence and a working relationship with TRS in Telangana. Has anything happened to Kannada or Telugu culture?
How do you mean, exactly? You mean they're shifting a bit to the right, away from their avowed, hardcore Atheism and other corresponding, traditional positions?But his entry has made Dravidian politicians talk about Hinduism in positive aspects
Which elections, Lok Sabha or State Assembly? And out of how many seats total? Also, what do you see happening to the re-merged EPS-OPS AIADMK, and the separate Dhinakaran faction?
Never said BJP a threat to Tamil culture. I was mentioning my support to Rajini will be considered and based on the steps taken by Dravidian parties to destroy Tamil culture.
Dravidian parties are now bragging, especially DMK and MDMK(most avowedly atheist parties where once a visit to an temple can get u fired from primary membership) have been claiming how their families are Hindus, their followers are Hindus and they are starting to own up the saints and philosophers in ancient Tamil land who started the Bhakthi movement in entire India. Starting from Adi Shakrar to Ramanujar to Aandal and Nayanmars. This has never happened in their history.
Am talking about state elections. Rajini hasnt decided to contesting LS election, but has decided on contesting state. Dhinakaran faction wont unite until they get OPS/EPS fired. Not sure if the government will continue till 21's. Sasikala will get released from jail in 2020 and it will be interesting as there are still many open sasikala loyalists members in current cabinet but they openly talk against TTV.
My only wish is this government falls asap. We need a stable government to put TN back in growth's path. Currently even Rajini cant provide it.
Nation is the people and the people is the nation. Why should Tamil people leave their self interests so that so people sitting in the north can benefit from SL fiasco? Most notably 2009 genocide of Tamils. Its perfectly fair to expect my government to talk for the rights of Indian ethnic people everywhere around the world. We supported Bengali people in 71's. We should have supported them now. Rajapakse promised to implement 13th amendment. But he didnt, nor the government cared bout pressurising the SL government to implement it. One simple sanction against SL would have bought it in the knees. So much for the nation.
Second: Naxals, Nagas etc are Indians. But I am talking about those people who are believing in the democracy and government. Not the people who have taken up guns.
India wont join up any alliances. US is just using us. We would be a fool if we think US will help India if we have a war with China. India should be a global power on its own standing. China is claiming SCS only after improving its economy and keeping its head down for 3 decades. India should swallow its pride, develop first and then act like China is doing now.
I repeat, Trade, money, Data is the new alliances in this 21st century. The one controls data and trade controls the country. China is already showing an trailer what happens to countries that it cannot pay back. Economic colonisation. It has understood the game that war is risky. If we have the data, for example, info that can destroy the career of politicians in neighbourhood countries, then we can control them. US is doing that to this day
I repeat again. If you alienate an part of ur population to appease an citizen of another country for so called strategic depth, then its blunder. Congress did the same appeasement and you can see where it stands today.
Did you feel betrayed when rest of India didn't support the Tamil cause in Sri-Lanka. Sri-Lanka cleverly played China against India. Then India chose to be neutral in Tamil Tiger issue, so that Sri-Lanka doesn't go into Chinese fold.
Sri Lanka declares end to war with Tamil Tigers
Sri Lanka declares end to war with Tamil Tigers -- link
No, I already addressed this point. A nation's interests are its interests, they don't have to, and often do not align with the interests/desires of every single citizen. This point is both incorrect and naive/overly idealistic. Hell, even domestically in a democracy this isn't true; because leaders are picked by and represent the majority usually, they usually pander to their own electorate; not every single citizen in the constituency/region they represent.
This is exactly the sort of bullshit regionalism which has sunk India to date. First of all, the only Tamil people that India is obligated to represent are those Tamils living in India or who are actual citizens of India, not those who are part of another country and have disputes over there. If Sri Lankan Tamils are India's responsibility, then so are Sinhalas because they are also originally from the Indian landmass.
Another reason why that's a terrible argument, is because it's not for "people sitting in the north" to benefit from. It's what's in the damn interest of the whole country. Or is your Tamil pride/concern for even non-Indian Tamils greater than your concern for the interests of India as a country?
Sure, it's fair to expect your government to speak about the rights of Tamils in Sri Lanka, but then that's where it stops. You can expect India to raise concerns with Sri Lanka if it feels that Tamils are being treated poorly over there; but you cannot and should not expect anything beyond that. When India tried getting over-involved in another country's internal matters in 1987, the entire situation became an absolute clusterf*ck. That should be proof enough of why such meddling has its limits.
Additionally, no state has the right to single handedly start exercising veto power/controlling relations with an entire neighboring country over this issue, especially when in the course of doing this they are jeopardizing the entire country's strategic and security interests.
I'm an ethnic Indian, but I don't expect India to get involved or sour relations with the USA if tomorrow something happens to me or my family here; we're not India's responsibility, and India has no obligation to mess up its strategic interests just to save us. Every country has a responsibility to its actual citizens, and that's it.
Because it was feasible and the situation was conducive. India also tried playing God in Sri Lanka in 1987, what happened? India has already done enough damage to itself in trying to help Tamils, and by the end of it, they were hunting and killing our soldiers; that's enough now.
Another ridiculous/unrealistic argument and expectation. Rajpakse was the leader of that country, he did what he wanted, nonetheless it's not as if India never raised any issues/concerns with him; but you cannot take such matters beyond certain limits and end up spoiling your entire relationship with a neighboring country because of it. Rajapakse was already growing close to China, was the Indian Government supposed to completely push him into the Chinese orbit and risk a major strategic defeat over Tamil concerns? You talk about sanctioning, do you have any idea what would have ended happening if we were that aggressive with Sri Lanka? Did you not see the after effects of the Nepal blockade over the Constitution/Madhesi issues?
And while it wasn't feasible to openly pressure Rajapakse, this Government did something better; it worked covertly to get rid of him altogether through elections. That is how you deftly carry out a strategic maneuver, and that too without driving your neighbor into your enemy's arms, but I don't see you crediting or thanking the Modi Govt for that...
Yes, and in return, the Government of India has always raised the issue of Tamil rights in SL with the SL Government, but beyond a certain limit, India has no control over the issue, and it's best not to meddle in SL's internal affairs.
That's an oversimplification, and the US-India partnership is going to be absolutely crucial for countering Chinese influence and designs in the Indo-Pacific over the course of the 21st century. But I do agree that India should work hard towards standing on its own feet and being as self sufficient and powerful as possible, that's never a bad thing.
Interestingly enough though, on one hand you talk practically about swallowing pride, keeping head down and working hard to become powerful before exerting influence; and on the other hand you talk about adopting a heavy handed authoritarian approach towards your own neighborhood and driving them all into the arms of the Chinese.
Trade and money have always been *part* of alliances, and they will always be part of alliances. But your point that conventional, old alliances have no room in the strategic space of the modern world is incorrect. And yea, go ahead and use secret coercion on neighborhood politicians, when have I said anything against that, but the key is that such a thing remains controlled (in moderation) and most importantly, secret. If India is playing this game and it becomes exposed, that would quickly eat away its goodwill and credibility and create huge resentment against it in the country of question, as is happening with China.
And I repeat again that 1) you can never please all of your citizens 2) it's not about appeasing citizens of other countries, it's about maintaining excellent relations with the Governments of the neighboring countries while also cultivating and maintaining goodwill towards India amongst the masses of that nation.
Next, it's not "so called" strategic depth. It's strategic depth. You cannot argue against that, because it is a fact. And no, this has nothing to do with Congress appeasement; there's no similarity or analogy here, it's completely misplaced. In fact, what Congress did, is what you are arguing; it played hardball with countries in the neighborhood and created a lot of resentment, including its notorious blunder of sending the IPKF in Sri Lanka in 1987 and trying to meddle in Sri Lanka's internal affairs the way you want us to. THAT is a blunder.
I understand that being Tamilian these may be emotive issues for you; but that is not cause for the entire country to start conducting an emotion-centric, irrational, disastrous foreign policy just to make sure every last Tamil citizen is satisfied; even at the cost of India's larger strategic interests and goals in the neighborhood. That's not how statecraft or foreign policy is conducted, that's a recipe for disaster; and I'd tell you the exact same thing if these were issues related to my part of the country. Because the collective country is more important than any state, region or individual, and the day Indians realize this and start living by this dictum, it will solve a lot of India's problems.
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The Tamil kingdom of Pandayas took their name from the Pandavas.
The Tamil city of Madurai, which was the capital of the Pandayas, is named after the North Indian city of Mathura. Its a corruption of the name Mathura.
The north south divide was invented by the British, before that the Tamils had no problem integrating with the rest of India.
What are your views on this ? Now you know where these Fake news and Political Meme's comes from.
Free training on Photoshop- For Christian/Islamic brothers only.
It would be great if you or some others could do a lil bit research before forming your opinions. In Mahabharata, the Name Pandyas have been mentioned lots of times. More than Cheras and Cholas. And Pandyas fought for both Kaurvas and Pandavas. Pandyas is derived from the word Pandi meaning Bull in Tamil. Pandya means a Man like a Bull.
Madurai is possible to have been a corrupted name of mathura. However Madurai had previous names such as Koodal Nagar, other stuffs etc. Madurai, Korkai, Muchiri formed the earliest and center of Sangam civilisation.
What are your views on this ? Now you know where these Fake news and Political Meme's comes from.
Free training on Photoshop- For Christian/Islamic brothers only.
Possible. However in TN its the missionaries who are flush with cash and engage in such activities. Muslims are subtle in TN.
My bad, the Pandya's were contemporaries of the Pandavas.
However the Pandya's fought on the side of the Pandavas. Pandya King Malayathdwaja fought on the side of the Pandava's and even wounded Dronacharya.
The Sinnamanur copper plates, which are both in Sanskrit and Tamil, and which are from the Pandyan era talks about the Pandyan king who led the elephants in the MahaBharata war against the kurus and getting the Mahabharata translated into Tamil.
The same plates talk about the Chera king Senguttuvan, who is said to have fed the soldiers in the Mahabharata war.
Mahabharata also talks about Krishna having killed the Pandayan king Kulashekharan (who was said to be as strong as a bull and maybe the name Pandayan came from him). His son Prince Sarangadhwaja wanted to invade Dwaraka and take revenge but was counselled against it. He too later fought on the side of the Pandavas in the Mahabharat.
Krishna also married a Pandyan princess called Nappinnai and had a daughter called Pandyah (Maybe called that due to her heritage). This is mentioned in the Neela Suktham and is also mentioned by Thirukkovaiyar and Thiruvaimozhi.
In Fact, Thiruvaimozhi calls Krishna, The one who subdued the seven fierce bulls for the sake of marrying the blemishless and beautiful Nappinnai’. This could refer to the Pandyan warriors.
This is also mentioned by Megsthanes (who came with Alexander) who mentions that the Pandya kingdom was founded by the daughter of Herakles (Hari Krishna). He describes the queen of the Pandyas with an army Of 500 elephants, 4,000 cavalry, and 13,000 infantry.
The household requirements of dairy products of this Queen/princess (daughter of Krishna), were taken care by 365 families of Yadavas – on a rotational basis of one each day and this is again described in the Tamil Epic Silappadhikaram.
The daughter of King Malayathdwaja was Meenakshi who built Madurai and also the Meenakshi temple. Its possible that she was the wife of Malayathdwaja and the daughter of Krishna mentioned earlier. That would account for the name of the city being Mathura, so that she would not feel far from home.
The poster mentions Christian / Islamic brothers, and not Islamic/christian brothers. So its pretty clear who is funding this adventure.
Full Genealogy of the Suryavansha, Raghuvansha, Janakvansha, Somavansha, Puruvansha, Yaduvansha, Panchala and Kuru Vansha.
CPM Activists Allegedly Set Protesting Farmers' Tents On Fire In Kerala
Thiruvananthapuram: Activists of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) or CPI(M) allegedly set tents of protesting farmers on fire for not toeing the party line in Kerala's Kannur district.
Some people including farmers had stopped revenue officers from taking up land survey work in Kannur for a highway expansion project. Forty of the protesters were arrested on Wednesday for obstructing the work of revenue officials.
CPM Activists Allegedly Set Protesting Farmers' Tents On Fire In Kerala
Above Urban Naxals ruled state, below BJP's :
Thiruvananthapuram: Activists of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) or CPI(M) allegedly set tents of protesting farmers on fire for not toeing the party line in Kerala's Kannur district.
Some people including farmers had stopped revenue officers from taking up land survey work in Kannur for a highway expansion project. Forty of the protesters were arrested on Wednesday for obstructing the work of revenue officials.
CPM Activists Allegedly Set Protesting Farmers' Tents On Fire In Kerala
Above Urban Naxals ruled state, below BJP's :
CPM Activists Allegedly Set Protesting Farmers' Tents On Fire In Kerala
Thiruvananthapuram: Activists of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) or CPI(M) allegedly set tents of protesting farmers on fire for not toeing the party line in Kerala's Kannur district.
Some people including farmers had stopped revenue officers from taking up land survey work in Kannur for a highway expansion project. Forty of the protesters were arrested on Wednesday for obstructing the work of revenue officials.
CPM Activists Allegedly Set Protesting Farmers' Tents On Fire In Kerala
Above Urban Naxals ruled state, below BJP's :
No MSM covered farmers rally at Odisha, not even a single line in any corner. After all what is need of covering, if the state is not ruled by BJP??