randomradio

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Wow, That's the dumbest thing I have read this year, (the IA part not your post).... thanks for that one....

That's exactly what I pointed out to @Falcon a few years ago. The rejection was ridiculous. Had it not been for that, we would have selected Galil or Beretta a long time ago. The BSF uses the same Beretta carbine, no problem.

I believe the rejection was an excuse to kill the tender since OFB wanted to push their own carbine in. MoD bureaucrats have far too much hold over the DGQA even if the DGQA is run by the forces. What's interesting is from 2015 to 2017, DGQA did not have a director, which means civilians controlled the organisation and that's when the carbine tender was cancelled. Which means MoD bureucrats, basically the Joint Secretary of DDP, had a direct hand in the scuttling of the carbine tender, most likely at the behest of OFB. A civilian should never be in charge of this department.
 

Killbot

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Buying a license for a family of guns is something the private sector should think about, although the better option is to make your own IP instead
We already have made AKs. This thing is a *censored*ing scam.

Would you choose a .308 for a fighting rifle? India's new Sig 716i rifle.​


Without optics... IA does not know what it is doing. Arjun is another example for this.
 

randomradio

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We already have made AKs. This thing is a *censored*ing scam.

We can't make them without a license though. The IP belongs to Russia.

Without optics... IA does not know what it is doing. Arjun is another example for this.

That's coming in separately.

The army wants 40,000 image intensifier-based night sights and 16,000 thermal imaging based night sights, the officials said.

A proposal for the purchase of nearly 12,000 telescopic sights for new assault rifles is likely to be cleared by a high-level committee very shortly.


SIG716.jpg
 
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Killbot

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A proposal for the purchase of nearly 12,000 telescopic sights for new assault rifles is likely to be cleared by a high-level committee very shortly

Haven't heard anything after this since 2019. We all know where the file is.
The army wants 40,000 image intensifier-based night sights and 16,000 thermal imaging based night sights, the officials said.
These are going through. In the name of 'emergency' procurements. Battalions posted along the LoC are ordering the helmet mounted version, maybe a dozen at a time. Ghatak platoons across the LC have helmet mounted NODs. But, what they really need is training. NODs aren't wear and run type of things. Tactics need to be built around night fighting. Like the use of suppressors so as not to blind yourself, stealth, nuances of target acquisition and stuff.
We can't make them without a license though. The IP belongs to Russia
Ghatak, TAR, INSAS, Amogh, JVPC, etc. etc. All are AKs. No one gave a crap about IPs then. Why start now?
 

randomradio

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The first 2 are direct copies.

Then I suppose that's what Russia complained about regarding IP, although IPs only last 20-30 years at best. Diplomatic pressure prevailed then.

There's also quality. We may have copied the AK, although OFB claims they are not copies, but we likely do not make it at the quality needed. In the end that's what it comes down to.
 

Killbot

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Then I suppose that's what Russia complained about regarding IP, although IPs only last 20-30 years at best. Diplomatic pressure prevailed then.

There's also quality. We may have copied the AK, although OFB claims they are not copies, but we likely do not make it at the quality needed. In the end that's what it comes down to.
And both of them are in service in large numbers as well. IA could have ordered modified versions of the same..
 

Killbot

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All of them failed trials.
Nnnnnnnope. Why do you think CRPF uses both in combat if they failed trials? Also, they're AKs. Same as the AKM and AK-203. Where exactly do you think they failed that the AK-203 didn't?

Trust me, INSAS is a very good design. Better than the vanilla AK. IP should have been given to a joint venture between OFB and a private sector company for an improved version of the same. But IA goes for the weirdest choice it possibly could for a foreign design. And that too at a highly inflated rate. Setting up a joint venture with the likes of Sig might have been understandable. But an AK??!! INSAS is an upgrade over the AK. We already have the tech for that. Why are we downgrading now?

@Parthu @Milspec
 
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randomradio

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Nnnnnnnope. Why do you think CRPF uses both in combat if they failed trials? Also, they're AKs. Same as the AKM and AK-203. Where exactly do you think they failed that the AK-203 didn't?

Trust me, INSAS is a very good design. Better than the vanilla AK. IP should have been given to a joint venture between OFB and a private sector company for an improved version of the same. But IA goes for the weirdest choice it possibly could for a foreign design. And that too at a highly inflated rate. Setting up a joint venture with the likes of Sig might have been understandable. But an AK??!! INSAS is an upgrade over the AK. We already have the tech for that. Why are we downgrading now?

@Parthu @Milspec

INSAS is a good design, but the quality is absolute crap.

All these rifles failed trials anyway.


Right now the aim of the forces is not to buy a rifle that can be improved upon over time, like what the CRPF did with TAR, their main goal is to buy a rifle that has finished being improved upon and works as intended.

The TAR was as reliable as any other rifle of international standard, he said, adding that more improvements will be made based on customer feedback, to attain a position to say “we are the best”.

That snippet in the article, the IA is not interested in doing that anymore, since our MoD bureaucracy isn't interested in such things like making improvements. It's the reason why INSAS suffered. Excalibur also failed trials after "improvements" were brought in. 25 years is enough of a chance.

I would recommend supporting rifles when they actually clear trials.

Anyway, the AK is for second rung troops. Let's see how well Indian rifles do when the main tender is launched for first rung troops.
 
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randomradio

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If an AKM fails trials, I am sure 203 would too. functionally there is no difference. Now per your example, if the sight screw is an issue then I don't know what can pass.

As per the army, as of 2018, nothing that exists can clear trials. :ROFLMAO:

You can read that here.

Also, when the AK-203 was chosen, the QRs were diluted, but even then the Indian-designed rifles, like TAR, did not clear trials. And the army is not planning on diluting QRs for the frontline rifle in the main tender.
 

Milspec

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As per the army, as of 2018, nothing that exists can clear trials. :ROFLMAO:

You can read that here.

Also, when the AK-203 was chosen, the QRs were diluted, but even then the Indian-designed rifles, like TAR, did not clear trials. And the army is not planning on diluting QRs for the frontline rifle in the main tender.
The best thing for OFB to do at this point is to find an American importer and send a bunch of Ghatak AKM's to US in semi auto if they are confident in the quality.
 
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Lolwa

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The best thing for OFB to do at this point is to find an American importer and send a bunch of Ghatak AKM's to US in semi auto if they are confident in the quality.
Or better just sell civilian version of the slr,Lee enfield and the Insas.
 

randomradio

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The best thing for OFB to do at this point is to find an American importer and send a bunch of Ghatak AKM's to US in semi auto if they are confident in the quality.

They are not. The army has made subtle hints that OFB should sell their rifles in western markets. There are no takers within the OFB for it.

For now, it's just this.

But the problem is not that. The OFB paltan's main goal is to skim money off the top by skimping on quality for MoD orders. So even if they match American standards for the American market, they are unlikely to offer the same standards to the IA because of corruption.
 
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