S-400 'Triumf' News & Discussion

vstol Jockey

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This is a very foolish analysis as it does not take into consideration the role of 400kms range missiles. This analysis shows them to be firing off when the strike is just 200kms away. Another aspect is that when such a large force of F-18s is airborne, who is defending the CBG and with how many aircraft? I will not like to waste Su-35 in destroying incoming tomahawks but instead launch a counter attack on the CBG to try and take out the carrier or couple of its supporting escort ships which will create complete chaos in the enemy ranks.
 

Saaho

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Dec 27, 2019
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This is a very foolish analysis as it does not take into consideration the role of 400kms range missiles. This analysis shows them to be firing off when the strike is just 200kms away. Another aspect is that when such a large force of F-18s is airborne, who is defending the CBG and with how many aircraft? I will not like to waste Su-35 in destroying incoming tomahawks but instead launch a counter attack on the CBG to try and take out the carrier or couple of its supporting escort ships which will create complete chaos in the enemy ranks.
In reality, the CBG will have to deal with a storm of Russian super sonic and hypersonic missiles AShM fired from Russian subs and Su-35s.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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This is a very foolish analysis as it does not take into consideration the role of 400kms range missiles. This analysis shows them to be firing off when the strike is just 200kms away. Another aspect is that when such a large force of F-18s is airborne, who is defending the CBG and with how many aircraft? I will not like to waste Su-35 in destroying incoming tomahawks but instead launch a counter attack on the CBG to try and take out the carrier or couple of its supporting escort ships which will create complete chaos in the enemy ranks.

Any Western analysis released for civilian consumption requires underestimating the non-Western adversary by a significant margin.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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Dec 4, 2017
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Any Western analysis released for civilian consumption requires underestimating the non-Western adversary by a significant margin.

A CBG would be a BIG target for Anti Ship Missiles , say for example
Russian Anti Ship Missiles making a Pre Emptive attack on a US CBG

But in our case A S 400 Regiment can be subjected to Simultaneous
Air Launched Cruise missiles as well LACMs

Where do we ie INDIA conduct a Pre Emptive Strike So as to Prevent our S 400 Radars from being targetted
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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A CBG would be a BIG target for Anti Ship Missiles , say for example
Russian Anti Ship Missiles making a Pre Emptive attack on a US CBG

But in our case A S 400 Regiment can be subjected to Simultaneous
Air Launched Cruise missiles as well LACMs

Where do we ie INDIA conduct a Pre Emptive Strike So as to Prevent our S 400 Radars from being targetted

When it comes to naval warfare, the problem has always been about finding targets, 'cause they are constantly on the move.

When it comes to land warfare, the targets are fixed and well known. So if you have enough assets to take out a target, like a large air base, and keep it inoperable, then you can protect the S-400 from air attacks.
 

vstol Jockey

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When it comes to naval warfare, the problem has always been about finding targets, 'cause they are constantly on the move.

When it comes to land warfare, the targets are fixed and well known. So if you have enough assets to take out a target, like a large air base, and keep it inoperable, then you can protect the S-400 from air attacks.
The S-400 will fire off all its longer range missiles before the missiles reach anywhere close to Buk battries and they wud have also moved off to a new location for a reload.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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The S-400 will fire off all its longer range missiles before the missiles reach anywhere close to Buk battries and they wud have also moved off to a new location for a reload.

A combination of
1 Swarm Drones ,
2 SSM ie Ballistic Missiles
3 Anti Radiation Missiles
4 LACMs
5 ALCMs -- all in a very short period of Time can be a Very Testing Situation for the S 400 Radars

Plus we will have to Ensure that there are No Indian Aircraft in that area and range of S 400 Missiles

Israel used this tactic yesterday to target Syrian port

 

randomradio

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The S-400 will fire off all its longer range missiles before the missiles reach anywhere close to Buk battries and they wud have also moved off to a new location for a reload.

Yep. And never mind some, even if all the ground radars are switched off during the relocation, fighter jets will be able to provide fire control to any active launchers that are yet to be moved.
 

vstol Jockey

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Yep. And never mind some, even if all the ground radars are switched off during the relocation, fighter jets will be able to provide fire control to any active launchers that are yet to be moved.
You must remember why S-400 was created with such mobility. The desiners knew that it can be over whelmed and so they created a layered defense system. But the final defence lies in Offensive defence and an Offensive must overcome all the defences. For a nation like USA, they can launch such a salvo of missiles. BUT can they do it when Russian subs are lurkiing around and their fighters are restridted with far superior radars? Another factor is aircraft like Rafale. They can save themselves but will they be able to deliver? Finally, if a counter strike is done, who will save the CBG.
The lessons from Battle of Midway tell us that a CBG can be taken out if we can breach its defenses, In 1942, Aircraft did it. In future, Missiles vl do it
 

Saaho

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Where do we ie INDIA conduct a Pre Emptive Strike So as to Prevent our S 400 Radars from being targetted
In case of India, S-400 fills a VERY important role : To push force multipliers like fuel tankers and AWACS away using its massively long range missile. Heck, we should try and replicate emissions of S-400 radars and use them to scare away AWACS and fuel tankers. No need for entire processing loop, just simple radiation part of the radar. Heck, you wont even need that precise beam forming. Plus put some inflatable decoy missile batteries to make detection and neutralization of forces really hard. Good luck trying to find which is real S-400 and which is a dummy! Use your standoff weapons on a dummy while a hidden / camo'ed battery launches the real missiles guided by camo'ed radar.

Being on the ground allows a lot of very very interesting deception and camo scenarios. Couple this with a bunch of anti-sat weapons and you can create an area where there is no enemy arial surveillance. Get satellite soft kill capability for even better results.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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Shows tactics is more important in actual battlefield than specs

Absolutely , S 400 will be a prime target for the enemies

However what is more important for India is that S 400 should not become a Hindrance or Hurdle for IAF Fighter planes

The Role of Deception packages ,
Towed Decoys and Swarm drones increases the work load for S 400 Radars
 

randomradio

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This event proves that we would have to be completely sure about the IFF protocols with S 400

Russia, NATO, Syria and Israel are operating in a much more difficult environment in terms of traffic than we will against Pak or China.
Shows tactics is more important in actual battlefield than specs.
Between do we have any plan to procure more s400s to suppliment the existing orders.

That's neither tactics nor specs, that's SOPs.
 

TARGET

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Dec 2, 2017
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India should test at least 100 to 200 missiles on cruise missiles, Lakshaya, and also validate IAF fighter planes and helicopters IFF systems to stop wartime confusion. we have to check in war-like scenarios in the western and northern border.