S-400 'Triumf' News & Discussion

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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So in 2021 you will be able to train Rafale pilot against S 400 system...

I suppose 2022. In end-2021, we will take deliveries, then it will take 3-6 months to train the operators and make it fully operational. So early to mid 2022. It's possible that we will be able to exercise the S-400 with a fully configured Rafale, along with ISE.
 
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Nikhil

nik141993
Dec 1, 2017
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Big bird is a S band radar while grave stone is an X-Ku band FCR...of course the former will have Greater range... but the later will provide better resolution target discrimination & engagement capability along with better ECCM capabilities.
a low flying target won't be detected by S 400 radars...it will probably require a mast which may help it to detect target up to 50 km but its game over by then. F 35, F 22 will eat it alive if push comes to shove. Russian propaganda division is out of this world though no doubt about that.
 

JustCurious

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Aug 2, 2020
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't be detected by S 400 radars...it will probably require a mast which may help it to detect target up to 50 km but its game over by then. F 35, F 22 will eat it alive if push comes to shove. Russian propaganda division is out of this world though no doubt about that.

Then which are those exemplary, fantabulous weapons being churned out by Russian PSU's, that you have repeatedly harped on ? Care to enlighten everyone, please ?
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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The deployment is unknown, but if placed in Punjab, Adampur is far, far more likely than Ambala. The base holds our Mig-29s, and is possibly our most important base in the region when it comes to air defence, not Ambala. There are also a lot of strategic areas around Adampur, including many air bases and many army units.

Furthermore, nobody is claiming fighter jets can be shot down on takeoff, it's not possible for the ground radar to do that due to radar horizon. But what's completely unknown is the fact that CEC is possible. So, if the S-400 is integrated with the Phalcon/Netra or Su-30MKI, the ground radar will not be the limiting factor.

What has been claimed is PAF can be engaged inside their borders, and that is true.

Too early to tell if the Big Bird is coming or not.

The 40N6 is a two-stage missile and perfectly capable of bringing down any type of target, including cruise missiles and helicopters. So it's not for HVAs alone.
 
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Nikhil

nik141993
Dec 1, 2017
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Then which are those exemplary, fantabulous weapons being churned out by Russian PSU's, that you have repeatedly harped on ? Care to enlighten everyone, please ?
Just look at there new generation of armoured vehicles, military helicopter, planes..., new generation of SLBMs, ICBMs, borei, yaseen class nuclear submarine...EW systems etc etc
neither china nor india is even close to them.
When i talk about Russia, i talk about there discipline workforce, state enterprises, a legacy of Soviet Union... not there leadership which is probably the most corrupt out there including the modern day tsar( Putin ) ruling that country.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
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Just look at there new generation of armoured vehicles, military helicopter, planes..., new generation of SLBMs, ICBMs, borei, yaseen class nuclear submarine...EW systems etc etc
neither china nor india is even close to them.
When i talk about Russia, i talk about there discipline workforce, state enterprises, a legacy of Soviet Union... not there leadership which is probably the most corrupt out there including the modern day tsar( Putin ) ruling that country.

Russia has a very high per capita income, an over $100B trade surplus, independent from import of fuel, plenty of forex and very little public debt.

All of these supporting a developed defence industry. Which is why their military looks extremely good on paper.

But all of this will change pretty soon. Say 5-10 years for China and 10-15 years for India. The situation will reverse for Russia. It will happen even sooner for India if private sector enters defence in a big way.
 

Nikhil

nik141993
Dec 1, 2017
503
293
India
Russia has a very high per capita income, an over $100B trade surplus, independent from import of fuel, plenty of forex and very little public debt.

All of these supporting a developed defence industry. Which is why their military looks extremely good on paper.

But all of this will change pretty soon. Say 5-10 years for China and 10-15 years for India. The situation will reverse for Russia. It will happen even sooner for India if private sector enters defence in a big way.
Russia does not have high per capita like there western neighbors....despite being rich in resources, most of the wealth has been swindle by corrupt elite. Russia will maintain technological edge over china & india in long run....given we somehow manage to build things on our own without passing and labelling foreign products as our own.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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Russia does not have high per capita like there western neighbors....despite being rich in resources, most of the wealth has been swindle by corrupt elite. Russia will maintain technological edge over china & india in long run....given we somehow manage to build things on our own without passing and labelling foreign products as our own.

Compared to Western Europe, no, but Russia's per capita income at one time was over $20,000, well above the threshold of what's considered wealthy, before they were sanctioned and their currency weakened. Their PPP per capita income is $30,000. Comparatively China is at $20,000 and India's at $9,000. So that's where the major difference comes from even when it comes to technology.

According to the the UN, $30,000 income in PPP is the threshold for considering a country as developed.

Russia isn't capable of maintaining a technological edge beyond a certain point. By the time China and India achieve $30,000 per capita in PPP terms, both countries would have far surpassed the scientific capabilities of Russia by a pretty big margin.
 

Nikhil

nik141993
Dec 1, 2017
503
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India
Compared to Western Europe, no, but Russia's per capita income at one time was over $20,000, well above the threshold of what's considered wealthy, before they were sanctioned and their currency weakened. Their PPP per capita income is $30,000. Comparatively China is at $20,000 and India's at $9,000. So that's where the major difference comes from even when it comes to technology.

According to the the UN, $30,000 income in PPP is the threshold for considering a country as developed.

Russia isn't capable of maintaining a technological edge beyond a certain point. By the time China and India achieve $30,000 per capita in PPP terms, both countries would have far surpassed the scientific capabilities of Russia by a pretty big margin.
Do not confuse total GDP divided by population as real income. Median family income in Russia is only 6500 USD. In india around 3000 USD. Per capita median income is pathetic 700 USD in india. So no Russia is not rich.....india is like sub Saharan Africa, even worse.....probably only china has reduced absolute poverty in last 3 decade in my opinion & no neither india nor china is displacing Russia anytime soon.
 

JustCurious

Member
Aug 2, 2020
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Just look at there new generation of armoured vehicles, military helicopter, planes..., new generation of SLBMs, ICBMs, borei, yaseen class nuclear submarine...EW systems etc etc
neither china nor india is even close to them.
When i talk about Russia, i talk about there discipline workforce, state enterprises, a legacy of Soviet Union... not there leadership which is probably the most corrupt out there including the modern day tsar( Putin ) ruling that country.
Are you aware of the fact (& aligned) that Air-Defence Artillery has been a traditional domain of strength for Russian MIC, a thriving SU legacy that continues to this day ?
 

Bon Plan

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Dec 1, 2017
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The actual systems were delivered sometime back. It was expected then only that China will at sometime produce unlicensed copies from the received systems which would lead to suspension of support contracts.

Same will happen for Su35 too. OEM support will be suspended as soon as the Russians find out that Radar and engines have been copied.
China is copying every thing. Not a surprise.
How russia can accept to deliver only 24 Su35 ? They will be copy and paste immediatly. It's 100+ or nothing with them.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
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China is copying every thing. Not a surprise.
How russia can accept to deliver only 24 Su35 ? They will be copy and paste immediatly. It's 100+ or nothing with them.
Russians like the first Su27 contract wanted a minimum sale figure of 72 aircrafts to offset any potential losses due to Chinese reverse engineering. But Chinese didn't wanted that much, and Russians aren't in a very good financial position so as to speak , so Russians agreed to a smaller contract of 48 aircrafts. But problems were again there , after which it was agreed to buy 24 initially and 24 in future (which was never to happen).
 

RISING SUN

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First S-400 unit to be delivered by end of 2021
 
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A Person

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It's not just about being within range, it's about being able to fly within point-blank range or even without the Lüneberg lens and allow the S-400 to enrich its threat library easily.

Like what they've done recently with their F-4 and F-16:
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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It's not just about being within range, it's about being able to fly within point-blank range or even without the Lüneberg lens and allow the S-400 to enrich its threat library easily.

Like what they've done recently with their F-4 and F-16:

True. However a large chunk of the F-35's secrets will be out even from a long enough distance as long as the Luneberg lens is out. The information generated can help extrapolate what will happen when it gets closer. So the choice is between F-35's secrets being revealed immediately to the Russians through testing, or the data is collected over a longer period of time as usual, as long as the F-35s are operating within range of the radars.

But I don't believe that was the actual goal. If the Russians were interested in the F-35's secrets, then all they had to do was delay the S-400 deal with Turkey until Turkey received at least the first batch. It would have only been a year-long wait. There was nothing the Americans could have done after that point. Then could have tested the F-35 alongside the F-4 and F-16.

The Russians have been operating the S-400 in Syria for a long time now, and the Israelis have been consistently launching airstrikes on Iranians in Syria already. That's a lot of information given away already.
 
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