S-400 'Triumf' News & Discussion

Shajida Khan

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Indian Navy vs Chinese Navy = Easy win for China. This is the problem, you are outgunned in the air and at sea.
Issue is, can China deploy its Navy all the way across Mallaca? Impossible. Wars are not decided simply by numbers but by reality of battlefield as well.

India can easily blockade Mallaca strait holding all of Chinese oil supply hostage. And then when US and Japanese fleets move towards the soft underbelly of China and its richest parts, Chinese government will be begging for mercy faster than they say 'Nihao' in Beijing.

That war is an impossible war for China to fight. There are no supply lines that can keep their CBG supplied on any mission in IOR. If any of small countries like Sri-Lanka will so much as try to help Chinese, their heads of head of government will be rolling. RAW is deeply entrenched in all of our neighbors, even the friendly ones.
 
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randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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The Iranians were completely isolated minus many of their personnel lost to defections , arrests, assassinations , lack of spares, qualified mechanics etc.

Here, murphy, educate yourself before you go shooting that Golden mouth of yours -
Persian Cats | Military Aviation | Air & Space Magazine

https://warisboring.com/in-the-iran-iraq-war-f-5s-and-mig-21s-fought-to-a-standstill/

P. S - besides, if the Iraqis had the "4 th strongest military " As per your earlier post, then how does it square with your latest post of the Iranians being stronger than the Iraqis? Please don't embarass yourself. Listen to some boring tunes and post the links in your favourite thread out here.

US
Britain
Iran
Iraq

That's BMD's ranking.
 

Shajida Khan

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China would destroy India with a limited conflict.
No. Not possible.
Unlike US, China is very much in range of Indian attacks.

Besides, Chinese have lot more to lose than India in a war. Will China like to have a future in which Shenzen, Chengdu and Beijing are a glass desert even if all of 1.3 billion Indians are dead? I doubt it. A cripple China if it survives after India China war will be too far behind to ever attempt to challenge US. For China to defeat India completely, it will need to have a disparity with India on the similar front which US had with Iraq or Afghanistan. Ever wonder why US never attacks any nation with missiles and airforce which can reach US mainland?
 

Shajida Khan

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Yes but they have hundreds more jets that can be mid-air refuelled or moved there.
And then you wonder why we bought S-400s. It is to take out force multipliers like these. But then, war with China is not even remotely possible. China has nothing to gain by fighting India and everything to lose if war goes even slightly bad.

Besides, they have a lackey to fight for them. Pakistan.
 

Shajida Khan

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They actually did launch Silkworm AShMs but they were shot down. China can attack everything in India with more firepower than India can throw back, and with air superiority.
And what will happen if China moves all the firepower to the southern border to face India? US and Japan on Eastern front will be able to attack China and remove China from its beloved south China sea.

I have a much simpler question though:

What will China gain by fighting India?

Land? it does not matter to China, China has much bigger landmass.

Sea access? Nope! For that China will have to invade Bangladesh as well.

Defending vulnerable areas? Nope again!

Political gains? Nope again! China's hold over Tibet is firm and India has given-up any recognition of Tibet as an independent nation. Heck we are not even giving too much headlines to 'his holiness'.

Oil? India has none of it.

The root cause of Indo-China conflict wrt Arunanchal Pradesh was China's hold over Tibet due to presence of major religious shrines in 'South Tibet'. With that secured, China has nothing to gain by fighting for Arunanchal Pradesh.

Rationally speaking, best position for China is to keep the matter alive without fighting the war. It ensures that India has to make expenditure for securing North eastern border, it becomes a bargaining chip in any future deal with India, it also enables China to seek a common ground with other smaller Indian neighbors who may allow China many liberties just out of fear of India. Come think of it, isn't thats what China doing right now?
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
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That makes no sense, aircraft carriers do cost billions, equipping destroyers with S-400 would cost millions.

So why would China buy the system for land and not for their carriers?

Is it possible that integration of such accurate system is not possible on a moving deck?
 

BMD

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Dec 4, 2017
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So why would China buy the system for land and not for their carriers?

Is it possible that integration of such accurate system is not possible on a moving deck?
That's my question to you. Why is China instead investing in aircraft carriers?

No.
 

BMD

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Dec 4, 2017
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And what will happen if China moves all the firepower to the southern border to face India? US and Japan on Eastern front will be able to attack China and remove China from its beloved south China sea.

I have a much simpler question though:

What will China gain by fighting India?

Land? it does not matter to China, China has much bigger landmass.

Sea access? Nope! For that China will have to invade Bangladesh as well.

Defending vulnerable areas? Nope again!

Political gains? Nope again! China's hold over Tibet is firm and India has given-up any recognition of Tibet as an independent nation. Heck we are not even giving too much headlines to 'his holiness'.

Oil? India has none of it.

The root cause of Indo-China conflict wrt Arunanchal Pradesh was China's hold over Tibet due to presence of major religious shrines in 'South Tibet'. With that secured, China has nothing to gain by fighting for Arunanchal Pradesh.

Rationally speaking, best position for China is to keep the matter alive without fighting the war. It ensures that India has to make expenditure for securing North eastern border, it becomes a bargaining chip in any future deal with India, it also enables China to seek a common ground with other smaller Indian neighbors who may allow China many liberties just out of fear of India. Come think of it, isn't thats what China doing right now?
You said you didn't want a military alliance with the US and Japan though.

They would gain land.

Invading Bangladesh wouldn't be too tricky.
 

BMD

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1 Brahmos for each of their ships. They are yet to develop capable anti-missile systems.
I'm pretty sure they have anti-missile system if they can shoot down a satellite. HQ-9. And they have an equivalent to Brahmos.
 

BMD

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Dec 4, 2017
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Educate yourself on Indian history before talking man. Post 1965, China has tried at-least 3 times to change the status quo. Each time, it was unchanged. In Doklam, for the first time we initiated aggressive action by crossing borders. Guess what happened?

Read about 1967 and 1987. The Chinese tried invading, were beaten back and had to come to the negotiating table and accept the sanctity of LAC and de jure acceptance of Arunachal Pradesh. In 1967, they realised Sikkim will become Indian territory. Something they wanted for themselves.

In the Doklam, they tried intervening in the chicken neck area, which we are consider our strategic area of interest. Guess what happened there? We crossed the border and asked them to vacate an area which they consider theirs.

Here is something more for you. Both countries, while adversarial are not nuts like our western neighbours. If China, settles the Indo-China border issue, you will see India leave the anti China camp in an instant. Then they will leave the Chinese to deal with the South China Sea, while we deal with the nuts to the west.

Nathu La and Cho La clashes - Wikipedia
They beat you, accept it. They regularly cross the border even today.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...se-in-2017-govt-data/articleshow/62793362.cms
 

randomradio

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I'm pretty sure they have anti-missile system if they can shoot down a satellite. HQ-9. And they have an equivalent to Brahmos.

They are like us, building more strategic systems like BMD first. Their ship defences are still developing, whereas we absorbed American/Israel tech right away through the Barak program.
 
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randomradio

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They beat you, accept it. They regularly cross the border even today.

Chinese incursions into India rose in 2017: Government data - Times of India

The Chinese do not cross what they think is our border, and we do not cross what we think is their border. Both countries operate in disputed territory and claim the other's invading their space.

Here's the Chinese claiming India "invaded" China.
Like India in Doklam, Third Country's Army Could Enter Kashmir on Behalf of Pakistan: Chinese Paper
The Chinese state media have carried a barrage of critical articles on the Doklam standoff criticising India, but this was the first time Pakistan and Kashmir have been brought into the narrative

“Indian troops invaded China’s Doklam area in the name of helping Bhutan, but in fact the invasion was intended to help India by making use of Bhutan,” it said, referring to the June 30 statement issued by India’s External Affairs Ministry.


We have been "invading" China for decades now.

Being a democracy, India is merely more vocal about the Chinese intrusions in the media. It allows the Indian military to stay relevant in India's public discourse, for obvious reasons, since the military does not make policy.
 

Shajida Khan

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They would gain land.

Invading Bangladesh wouldn't be too tricky.

And what they are waiting for then? BTW, India is getting stronger and faster than China. Besides, when they were not able to defeat us at our weakest, how can they hope for any kind of dominance when we are getting stronger in every sense of the word!
 

Shajida Khan

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They would gain land.
China has vast amount of land, what use that small piece of land will be for China? Land is worthless unless you have some resources burried in it. There is simply too much of land in China.

Not to mention the risk of a nuclear conflict with India destroying their only shot at world leadership.
 

Shajida Khan

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I'm pretty sure they have anti-missile system if they can shoot down a satellite. HQ-9. And they have an equivalent to Brahmos.
Without support of any land based air crafts and far away from their territorial waters, they will be dead. Besides, none of Chinese weapon systems are tested. We operate battle proven ones.
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
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That's my question to you. Why is China instead investing in aircraft carriers?

China is investing in S400 as well. You are self contradictory.

At one place, chinese investment is taken as assurance for air supremacy, while at other its ignored by you.