Are you guys still pushing this? It was discredited at the time. An obscure publication with no quotes or names. or an actual SU-35. I can see the little beads of sweat forming on your brow as you type. It has to be true It has to be true It has to be true It has to be true
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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is rafael hebrew for rafale?
except if i misunderstand, what is the "new" compared with this "communiqué" (dated feb.2021)?:
Make in India: BEL delivers transmit/receive modules to Thales for Rafale RBE2 Radar
03 February 2021, Bengaluru, India: As part of Thales' Offsets commitments under the Rafale India contract, and in line with the Make in India policy, Navratna Defence PSU Bharat...
www.marketscreener.com
I do not know what may have happened but it is definitely more likely that Egyptian pilots went to Russia for training than Russia sending some birds for testing.
No jet that is sent for trial/test will ever be permitted for military exercise. As much as people like to believe, radars are one of strong parts of Rus aviation since their engines are relatively lesser in quality. So radar reach & jet maneuver are two prime aspects they put major effort in. Almost all major western jets have never come up against near peer except for wargames & exercises, and only been used to bomb against very little AD and air superior capable adversary. That goes for Rafale too.
Walka Su-35 z Rafale. Wygrywa Rafale [KOMENTARZ]
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Fight between Su-35 and Rafale. Rafale wins [COMMENTARY].
Egypt has confirmed the opinion of Indian pilots as to the value of Russian aircraft in a clash with Western ones. This is because it turned out that during practice air battles, the Su-35 fighter lost to the French Rafale. Interestingly, the information about this air confrontation was publicized by Russian trade media - but with appropriate commentary.
The Egyptians conducted an exercise in which the French Rafale fighter faced the Russian Su-35 fighter and "won" the air battles with it. The confrontation was an even match, as it pitted two aircraft classified in the same generation against each other, which were additionally brand new - so at least in theory they should have the latest version of on-board equipment and updated software.
After all, twenty-four Su-35 aircraft were purchased by Egypt under a contract signed on March 19, 2018. The first five fighters in the "upgraded" Su-35SE version were handed over to the Egyptian Air Force on February 25, 2021, but photos of the aircraft were published as early as July 2020. Egypt thus had time to get to know the Russian planes and train the pilots according to the instructions of Russian instructors, who were said to have benefited from combat experience gained over Syria.
Opposing the Su-35SE was the Rafale, a multi-role aircraft made by the French company Dassault Aviation. So far it is not known which version of this fighter faced the Russian Su-35SE. Indeed, under the contract signed with Egypt on February 12, 2015 for the delivery of twenty-four F3-series Rafale aircraft (equipped, among other things, with AESA-class active antenna radar), sixteen two-seat Rafale DMs and eight single-seat Rafale EMs were delivered from 2015 to 2020. What's more, a fighter built for the French Air Force could face off against a Russian fighter, as these are what the Egyptians received in 2015 in the first batch to speed up deliveries.
The outcome of the clash between the two aircraft was decided by "electronics." During the exercise, the Russian Su-35 played the role of "aggressor" and it was the one to attack the Rafale. However, the pilot of the French fighter quickly realized that he was radar-beaten, and using the on-board electronic warfare system - Thales SPECTRA (Self-Protection Equipment to Counter Threats for Rafale Aircraft) he jammed the Su-35's radar station without a problem. Thus, the Russian aircraft was unable to guide its armament, while the Rafale easily tracked the enemy with its radar and eventually "shot it down."
The Egyptian exercise was significant in that it was previously explained by the superiority of Western aircraft over Russian aircraft in combat only because Western pilots are guided by AWACS-class early warning aircraft. Egypt also has such aircraft (E-2 Hawkeye) but they were not used in this exercise to the advantage of either side. Thus, it was bluntly demonstrated that even in a one-on-one clash, the French fighter easily overwhelms the opponent, which, in addition, was "straight from the factory" and the pilot directly after training conducted by Russian instructors (and not Egyptian trained earlier in Russia).
In addition, the Russians boast all the time that the Su-35 is their most modern fighter (after the Su-57), which, like the Rafale, is equipped with a wall antenna radar (N035 "Irbis"), capable of detecting air objects with an effective reflective area of 0.01 m2 (and therefore stealth aircraft) from a distance of up to 100 km. Pilots additionally have at their disposal at shorter distances an optoelectronic observation and guidance system
As it turns out, however, radar is not equal to radar. After all, the Russians used old technology and their wall antenna is passive, and the electronically controlled radiating elements are powered by a single radar transmitter. The French RBE2-AA radar belongs to the AESA class, and this means that its antenna consists of many of the same transmitter-receiver modules, which improves reliability (the failure of one "transmitter" does not disable the entire device), but most importantly: it allows "intelligent" scanning of space - with the designation of priority detection directions and with tracking of more targets simultaneously.
Now the Russians themselves admit that the outcome of this practice air combat could affect the Su-35's export potential. Egypt is the second foreign user of these aircraft. Indeed, in 2015 Russia signed a contract to supply 24 Su-35 fighters to China. But many more countries were also interested in these fighters, and now this situation may change.
Of course, there is always the argument of price. The Egyptians paid about $2 billion (most likely without armament) for 24 Su-35 aircraft, and about €3.5 billion for the same number of Rafale aircraft, plus another €700 million for armament (including MICA(EM) RF and MICAIR "air-to-air" missiles, AASM/Hammer guided bombs, Exocet AM39 anti-ship missiles and SCALP cruise missiles). So the Rafale cost more, but turned out to be simply better.
And that's probably also why Egypt ordered another 30 such fighters, recognizing (and such an assessment was also placed in the Russian media) that this is the most "advanced" combat aircraft in the Arab country's arsenal (rather than the newer vintage Su-35). The Rafale was also bought by the Indian Air Force, and there, too, the capabilities of this design were contrasted with Russian aircraft - except that of the Su-30MKI type, used in India since 2002. The winners of these duels were mostly Rafales - especially since they came up against the older version of Sukhoi fighters. However, this does not change the fact that they (and even older Su-27s) are now massively equipped by the Russian air and space forces.
As it turns out, the Russian media very quickly found a way out of this difficult image situation. For they recall that on July 20, 2021, during the MAKS-2021 international aerospace salon, "Russia showed the whole world the new Checkmate fighter. This aircraft should make its first flight in 2023. It is planned that serial production will begin in 2026-2027."
The Russians now advertise that it is already to be a fifth-generation fighter, lighter than the US F-35 (up to 20 tons versus 30 tons), with a shortened takeoff and landing, high maneuverability and a speed of more than Mach 2. And it is this aircraft that is to be offered to countries such as the United Arab Emirates, India, Vietnam and Argentina. This does not change the fact that until the Checkmate is produced, even if the deadlines are met, it will be difficult to find buyers for the Su-35 fighter - except, of course, for the Russian armed forces.
And all because the Egyptians did not believe in the "lack of analogs in the world" and said "checkmate."
BS! It's confirmed that Egypt doesn't even have a single Su-35S.
Rafale's EW is superior to the Su-35S. That's beyond doubt. But no mock fight has taken between these two planes anywhere.
As of now, only country that operates Su-35S except Russia is China. Period.
I don't know why our French members are so desperate to prove that SPECTRA jammed IRBIS, when honestly all 24 planes which were produced for Egypt are now headed to Iran.
... except perhaps an idle kangoo.
For me I had considered that the Russians had begun the delivery that the Egyptians had received 5 and that they sent them back to the Russians following this exercise. And that it is at this moment that they ordered 30 Rafales.
Must be bullshit from Poland ?
defence24.pl
Cmdr Lt. res. Maksymilian Dura - graduate of the Faculty of Electronics of the Military University of Technology (1980 - 1985). He served in the Navy from 1985 to 2011, initially on reconnaissance ships, then as Flag Officer of Radiolocation at the Staff of the 3rd Flotilla of Ships in Gdynia, and later as Head of Department at the Command and Communications Board of the Navy Staff. Meanwhile, he completed postgraduate studies at the WAT in 1994 and the All-Military College in Paris in 2002-2003. Worked as a permanent representative in NATO's RADHAZ and MCG-5 working groups. Polish representative in the work on NATO's MSA programme. Manager of research works, during which the following were developed and implemented: RM-100 Mobile Radar and a short-range portable interrogator of the own-foreign radar identification system. He organised and supervised the implementation of the AIS and IFF system in the Navy and the cooperation with the Border Guard and Maritime Offices in the construction of the Integrated Radiolocation Surveillance System for Polish Maritime Areas. He has been publishing on defence in its broadest sense in various media since 1992. Author of over two hundred and thirty press publications and over ten thousand internet publications, four research papers, seven defence standards, two defence standardisation manuals and eight rationalisation projects.
Well when I understand correctly, egyptian rafale have gone in russia ?
Walka Su-35 z Rafale. Wygrywa Rafale [KOMENTARZ]
Egipt potwierdził opinię indyjskich pilotów co do wartości rosyjskich samolotów w starciu z zachodnimi. Okazało się bowiem, że w czasie ćwiczebnych walk powietrznych, myśliwiec Su-35 przegrał z francuskim Rafale. Co ciekawe, informację o tej konfrontacji powietrznej nagłośniły rosyjskie media...
defence24.pl
Well when I understand correctly, egyptian rafale have gone in russia ?
Unrealistic scenario.
Link: Iran Confirms Acquiring 24 Sukhoi Su-35 Fighters From Russia; Jets To Arrive During Iranian Year In March
The above is Jan 2023 report. Another report from Jan 2022:
Quite clearly, Russia wouldn't send its planes to Egypt for evaluation(especially a high-value asset like Su-35S) against Rafale and there is NO WAY Egypt could return 5 Su-35S after using them against Rafale's SPECTRA, lol.
It is simply neither possible nor probable.
That said, in my personal opinion, Rafale with SPECTRA & Meteor >> Su-35S with Khibiny & R-77-1.
Poland source means entirely fabricated, could have said this before & spared the attention for this
Not only Egypt took delivery of 5 su35s, they took those to exercise, pitted against another fighter & after that returned the goodies to Russia, cancelled the deal. Who writes such imaginative stories? Guess this is how Witcher was written by the same folks.
If you take a jet to any exercise, you first ask for permission from OEM, who in case of permission also immediately tells you that radar will be turned to training mode only for that exercise. This is the case with our su30, we take it to most ex, and Rus every time send a reminder to turn BARS radar into training mode prior to take off. Without that, the jet will not take part in that ex.
Not only Egypt took delivery of 5 su35s, they took those to exercise, pitted against another fighter & after that returned the goodies to Russia, cancelled the deal. Who writes such imaginative stories? Guess this is how Witcher was written by the same folks.
If you take a jet to any exercise, you first ask for permission from OEM, who in case of permission also immediately tells you that radar will be turned to training mode only for that exercise. This is the case with our su30, we take it to most ex, and Rus every time send a reminder to turn BARS radar into training mode prior to take off. Without that, the jet will not take part in that ex.
(redsamovar (fr), feb.06)
redsamovar is a very well-informed specialist blog on Russian military hardware.
When it comes to exports, never say Su-35S. "S" is the variant for the Russian Air Force only. For export, it is: SU-35.
The Su-35 in Iran
excerpt: (...) The Su-35 and Egypt, an open secret?On 18 March 2019, the newspaper Kommersant announced that the Sukhoi Su-35S had just been ordered by a third export customer (after China and Indonesia), whose identity was not specified, although the focus was on Egypt. The article caused quite a stir as it was removed from the newspaper's website the next day and the information was carefully avoided by the Russian press for several months. Moreover, one of the two journalists behind the article, Ivan Safronov, will be charged with treason in July 2020.
Despite persistent rumours about the order, no official confirmation has been made by the two protagonists to the contract. It was not until the publication of an official Russian tender for equipment supplies for the KnAAZ plant under a contract referenced as follows: № CAIRO/N/AF/ROSOBORONEXPORT/2018/10 (P/1781811151143). There was no longer any doubt that Egypt had indeed placed an order for Su-35s; this was confirmed shortly afterwards with the publication of satellite images on Google Earth (dated 7 May 2020) showing Su-35s in the car park of the KnAAZ factory; these had camouflage identical in every respect to that worn by the MiG-29Ms(2) employed by the EAF.
The contract, worth an estimated USD 2 billion, contained another unknown: the number of aircraft ordered. In the absence of official figures, one could read everything and its opposite: twenty, twenty-four, thirty-one aircraft.... in short, nothing very precise. Fortunately (?), a table presented to the Russian MoD during an official visit to the KnAAZ factory where the Su-35(S) are produced revealed that there were thirty aircraft in production for an export customer; by cross-checking all the information, we obtain a much clearer picture of the situation. With thirty aircraft ordered at the end of 2018, production started in 2019 and the first aircraft left the factory around April-May 2020: the order was to be completed in 2022.
The first clouds will very quickly appear over this order, as the United States, having learned of the Egyptian intentions (let's bet that they must also read the Russian press), will very quickly wave the CAATSA sanctions card. Did the American threat hit the nail on the head or is there another reason? In any case, despite the completion of the production of the planes (they are stored in the car park of the KnAAZ factory as well as in Zhukovskiy), none of them will be delivered to Egypt. Nevertheless, until the end of 2022, there was no reason to believe that the aircraft would not be delivered: several insurance contracts covering the aircraft were in force: for storage, transport and training purposes. In short, this is a perfectly normal situation for aircraft to be delivered in the (more or less) near future. Moreover, the available images show that some of the aircraft produced were active - at least - between May 2020 and the end of December 2021: since then, few (or no) images of them are available (which does not mean that they have remained inactive).
One thing leading to another, the lack of delivery of the aircraft began to raise questions... and as is often the case, it was not long before the first rumours about the future of the Su-35 appeared. It is important to note that rumours are generally of little (or no) interest, but in the absence of any official information, it is necessary to take into account the 'little' that is available and to understand it while keeping in mind that they are above all rumours. With hindsight, we also understand better why neither Egypt nor Russia wanted to communicate about this order and why the Russian reaction to the Kommersant article will be "radical" to say the least.
In short, the situation (verified and verifiable) at the beginning of 2023 is as follows: the Su-35s are still present in Russia (Komosomolsk and Zhukovskiy), no official information confirms/infirms a delivery to Iran, no official information refutes the Egyptian refusal to take delivery of the aircraft, and finally, the latter are still covered by insurance contracts. If the reports of a delivery before Nowruz are confirmed, it will not be long before we see activity around the aircraft. (...) /deepl
redsamovar is a very well-informed specialist blog on Russian military hardware.
When it comes to exports, never say Su-35S. "S" is the variant for the Russian Air Force only. For export, it is: SU-35.
Egyptian Rafale has done some exercices in Turquia
The egyptian rafales have been exercising in Turkey in march 2021. This was the time when SU35SE and rafale have the most chances to encounter for example above the black sea.
That'a totally different scenario. Anyways, until there is a full shooting war between Russia/NATO or India vs China, we will never know about full-capabilities of Rafale against Su-35S/K and vice-versa.
On paper, Rafale has the advantage currently because of Meteor and SPECTRA.
So now you are speculating, that Russia has had a very close look at the Rafale. That will make your customers happy.
It's only a question. What's is for sure is that the closest station distance between both plane was during this exercice in Turquey. The encounter could have happened at this moment above the black sea and make the scenario plausible.