Project Kusha / Programme LRSAM / PGLRSAM

[BHARAT KA BETA]

Can you elaborate on this part?

I think this video will be helpful. This describes better, with much more informations that I know.

 

[Kitsune]

Can you elaborate on this part?

This tweet should help a bit

https://twitter.com/x/status/2080371999554277505

 

[Gautam]

I think this video will be helpful. This describes better, with much more informations that I know.

This tweet should help a bit

https://twitter.com/x/status/2080371999554277505

Thanks, I had missed this.

I hope all 3 missiles can share the same launch cannisters.

 

[BHARAT KA BETA]

Thanks, I had missed this.

I hope all 3 missiles can share the same launch cannisters.

The launch cannisters are looking very compact in size , so I guess there will be a comparatively larger number of missiles ( combination of M1, M2 & M3 together ) in a single launcher/ launcher vehicle / ship. Honestly, this system will be much lighter and easily movable/ easy to transport through vehicle/airlift in comparison to other existing systems like S 400, HQ 9 etc. I guarantee this system will be a huge export success too if it is allowed to be exported by Govt. Also it'll be much lower in cost per missile interception launch than S 400 etc.

 

[Kitsune]

Thanks, I had missed this.

I hope all 3 missiles can share the same launch cannisters.

Unlikely, If Kusha Brochures are anything to go by The M3 interceptor would be nearly 9.5m long necessitating different launch vehicles and cannisters

 

[South block]

Unlikely If Kusha Brochures are anything to go by The M3 interceptor would be nearly 9.5m long necessitating different launch vehicles and cannisters

It would be an abomination if this interceptor were that long. Just make it shorter, fat and faster like the SM-6 or 40N6. at current specs this system capabilities is very limited at effective long range engagement.

 

[Gautam]

The launch cannisters are looking very compact in size , so I guess there will be a comparatively larger number of missiles ( combination of M1, M2 & M3 together ) in a single launcher/ launcher vehicle / ship. Honestly, this system will be much lighter and easily movable/ easy to transport through vehicle/airlift in comparison to other existing systems like S 400, HQ 9 etc. I guarantee this system will be a huge export success too if it is allowed to be exported by Govt. Also it'll be much lower in cost per missile interception launch than S 400 etc.

It's not the land-based launchers that worries me. I am worried about the naval VLS.

Unlikely If Kusha Brochures are anything to go by The M3 interceptor would be nearly 9.5m long necessitating different launch vehicles and cannisters

9.5 m! 1+ m taller than the Brahmos! You sure?

Isn't the M3 missile meant to be our naval BMD interceptor. How will this work?

 

[Himanshu more]

M1 test with booster

 

[Kitsune]

It's not the land-based launchers that worries me. I am worried about the naval VLS.

As far as I know Navy has quite clearly stated they don't intend to go beyond 250 km so naval VLS is a non issue.

9.5 m! 1+ m taller than the Brahmos! You sure?

If these BDL brochures from Aero India 2025 are anything to go by

Isn't the M3 missile meant to be our naval BMD interceptor. How will this work?

I think that role exclusively belongs to AAD (why else would they test it from INS Anvesh.

And I think in the future the 8.6m long AD-1 may also be used as Naval BMD Interceptor, but that is purely hypothetical on my part


Make no mistake I don't like this ultra long 9.5m stick approch either and if I had my way I would much rather prefer a 350mm upper stage with a 500mm ±25mm booster.

Along with a new 450 km range Interceptor

 

[RationalGuy]

As far as I know Navy has quite clearly stated they don't intend to go beyond 250 km so naval VLS is a non issue.
View attachment 53149



If these BDL brochures from Aero India 2025 are anything to go by
View attachment 53150



I think that role exclusively belongs to AAD (why else would they test it from INS Anvesh.

And I think in the future the 8.6m long AD-1 may also be used as Naval BMD Interceptor, but that is purely hypothetical on my part


Make no mistake I don't like this ultra long 9.5m stick approch either and if I had my way I would much rather prefer a 350mm upper stage with a 500mm ±25mm booster.

Along with a new 450 km range Interceptor

How effective M3 at 9.5 m will be you reckon? Will it be effective say against AWACS and tankers at long ranges?

Someone here said earlier it wont be effective as BMD as much.

 

[Parthu]

The graphics of naval LRSAM show it as >250 km range so only M2 will likely have a naval role. I don't remember where I got this chart from but if it's to be believed, even the M2 is 8.4m long:



Even that is very long for a SAM, but at least it's the same length as BrahMos so can work with the same 'strike length' of VLS (though the VLS would be a different model, the length clearance will be similar).

I think this is the M1 Missile with 150 + km range under KUSHA Air Defence System. In initial images/ renders of Kusha the M1 Missile was not having a Booster, but the later changes suggests there is a small booster for M1 Missile too. Even if you look at the NOTAM length (180 km) for this test , suggests that this is M1 Missile and not the M2 Missile.

Well, either way the design doesn't match with any of the M2, M3 boosters shown so far.

I think that role exclusively belongs to AAD (why else would they test it from INS Anvesh.

And I think in the future the 8.6m long AD-1 may also be used as Naval Interceptor, but that is purely hypothetical on my part

The VLS on Anvesh certainly looks like it's meant to also carry something much fatter than the AAD/AD-1 though.

An exo-atmospheric 'upper tier' interceptor is likely to accompany the AAD/AD-1.

The Anvesh VLS seems to accommodate articles of up to 10m long (2nd point under 'Important Features'):

Make no mistake I don't like this ultra long 9.5m stick approch either and if I had my way I would much rather prefer a 350mm upper stage with a 500mm ±25mm booster.

Agreed.

That said, the NGD (at least if the recent most Navy render is to be taken at face value) appears to have 3 types of VLS. One is a relatively small system that seems to be very similar in size & layout to the current Barak-8 cells (or older Barak-1 cells). These cells will likely only be able to accommodate likes of VL-SRSAM.

The other 2 types of cells appear to be roughly of similar size. I'm not sure what to make of that. Could it be that naval Kusha would share the same VLS as AD-1/2? I think the Anvesh VLS looks physically larger than BrahMos UVLM in a way that should be obvious in a graphic like this, but I haven't actually done any photogrammetry to establish that, just eyeballing it:

 

[projectigi]

I think this is the M1 Missile with 150 + km range under KUSHA Air Defence System. In initial images/ renders of Kusha the M1 Missile was not having a Booster, but the later changes suggests there is a small booster for M1 Missile too. Even if you look at the NOTAM length (180 km) for this test , suggests that this is M1 Missile and not the M2 Missile.

it was indeed M1 with Booster, there must be decent increase in range

 

[Parthu]

This is probably the M2 missile. Very interesting set of control surfaces:
View attachment 53138
4x Jet vane thrust vector control.
The rear set of fins are interesting. The large size helps with lift. This missile is said to optimized for high-speed targets like fighters. I think the rear most fin is movable; I could be wrong.

The rear fins remind me of the Rudram M3. I don't think those are movable.

It's most likely M1 but you're spot-on with your analysis of the fin & TVC arrangement. The revered DFI-PK agrees

https://twitter.com/x/status/2080524822657016189

 

[Kitsune]

The graphics of naval LRSAM show it as >250 km range so only M2 will likely have a naval role. I don't remember where I got this chart from but if it's to be believed, even the M2 is 8.4m long:

I believe the chart is from this very forum, IIRC @Fatalis made that chart

Project Kusha / Programme LRSAM / PGLRSAM

LRSAM block house in ITR is getting fixed , hope for more activity.

www.strategicfront.org

The VLS on Anvesh certainly looks like it's meant to also carry something much fatter than the AAD/AD-1 though.

Isn't that a experimental VLS meant to be able to launch any and all type of missiles, that's why the 1m+ diameter

Could it be that naval Kusha would share the same VLS as AD-1/2?

Most likely, but I wouldn't get my hopes high on a Naval AD-2 that thing is a monster, even at a conservative guesstimate it would be similar to pralay in size
I think P18 would carry these interceptors
• VLSRSAM (50/50)
• Barak 8 (100%)
• Kusha M1 (100%)
• Kusha M2 (100%)
• AAD (100%)
• AD-1 (50/50)
• A lightweight PDV replacement instead of AD-2 if I snort a f**k ton of hopium

I think the Anvesh VLS looks physically larger than BrahMos UVLM in a way that should be obvious in a graphic like this,

Anvesh VLS is quite a bit larger than Brahmos VLS, I would say at least 50% bigger

 

[Parthu]

I believe the chart is from this very forum, IIRC @Fatalis made that chart

Project Kusha / Programme LRSAM / PGLRSAM

LRSAM block house in ITR is getting fixed , hope for more activity.

www.strategicfront.org

Ah, thanks. Now I remember.

@Fatalis - Bro, do you have a source for the 8.4m length of M2? You didn't mention it in that post ^^

Isn't that a experimental VLS meant to be able to launch any and all type of missiles, that's why the 1m+ diameter

Yeah, most likely. I guess they plan to use this same launcher even for Phase-III interceptors like AD-AH/AD-AM.

Btw, NGD will also have to think of accommodating at least AD-AH as anti-HGV capabilities will become a must for future principle combatants. Even the comparable Northrop GPI is meant for naval launch.

Most likely, but I wouldn't get my hopes high on a Naval AD-2 that thing is a monster, even at a conservative guesstimate it would be similar to pralay in size
I think P18 would carry these interceptors
• VLSRSAM (50/50)
• Barak 8 (100%)
• Kusha M1 (100%)
• Kusha M2 (100%)
• AAD (100%)
• AD-1 (50/50)
• A lightweight PDV replacement instead of AD-2 if I snort a f**k ton of hopium

Few thoughts on that:

>> With Kusha M1 in place, Barak-8 becomes essentially redundant. Not to mention, we'll need MF-STAR to guide Barak (unless we integrate it with LRMFR but that's a headache I don't see happening). Most likely, NGD will not carry any Baraks.

>> I think between AD-1 & AAD, only one will eventually go on NGD. Probably AD-1 as it's more advanced.

>> An exoatmospheric aka midcourse-capable interceptor will be a must otherwise there's no real theatre-level BMD cover for our carrier groups/taskforces. We won't be able to stop DF-26s (5,000-km capable) launched into IOR from Chinese mainland.

I don't know if it would have to be AD-2, modified PDV or something we haven't yet seen. But without it, NGD's area/fleet-defence capabilities will have huge holes in it.

 

[Kitsune]

Ah, thanks. Now I remember.

@Fatalis - Bro, do you have a source for the 8.4m length of M2? You didn't mention it in that post ^^



Yeah, most likely. I guess they plan to use this same launcher even for Phase-III interceptors like AD-AH/AD-AM.

Btw, NGD will also have to think of accommodating at least AD-AH as anti-HGV capabilities will become a must for future principle combatants. Even the comparable Northrop GPI is meant for naval launch.



Few thoughts on that:

>> With Kusha M1 in place, Barak-8 becomes essentially redundant. Not to mention, we'll need MF-STAR to guide Barak (unless we integrate it with LRMFR but that's a headache I don't see happening). Most likely, NGD will not carry any Baraks.

>> I think between AD-1 & AAD, only one will eventually go on NGD. Probably AD-1 as it's more advanced.

>> An exoatmospheric aka midcourse-capable interceptor will be a must otherwise there's no real theatre-level BMD cover for our carrier groups/taskforces. We won't be able to stop DF-26s (5,000-km capable) launched into IOR from Chinese mainland.

I don't know if it would have to be AD-2, modified PDV or something we haven't yet seen. But without it, NGD's area/fleet-defence capabilities will have huge holes in it.

1. Maybe you are right about Barak 8 (it will be a headache to integrate with LRMFR) But I don't think Navy will leave such a big gaping hole where your only choices are 15 km VLSRSAM or 150 km Kusha M1.
But who knows what will happen in the future, your argument makes sense too.

2. AAD and AD-1 are 2 completely different class of missile, I don't think they are comparable at all, if anything they complement each other.
AAD has a confirmed (by DRDO) max altitude of >25km
where as AD-1 has been repeatedly hailed as capable of both endo and low exo atmospheric interception (i.e max altitude - The Karman Line)
My guess would be a max altitude of 80 km.

Indian Ballistic Missile Defence Programme - Updates and Discussions

Not our BMD related but posting it here. Does anyone know AD2's dimensions? I wonder, if it's designed with UVLS in mind or not. 13.5" = 343 mm 21" = 533mm 27" = 685mm (around brahmos diameter, if I am not wrong)

www.strategicfront.org

AAD range - Indian Ballistic Missile Defence Programme - Updates and Discussions

3. I get the debilitating need of a Exo Atmospheric interceptor on P18 but AD-2 is most definitely not that interceptor, we will need a completely new PDV replacement.
I think a somewhat bigger THAAD / HQ-19 sized interceptor is the only real option
i.e a 500 - 600 mm diameter, 7-8 m length, IIR seeker 160 km altitude interceptor

 

[Fatalis]

Ah, thanks. Now I remember.

@Fatalis - Bro, do you have a source for the 8.4m length of M2? You didn't mention it in that post ^^



Yeah, most likely. I guess they plan to use this same launcher even for Phase-III interceptors like AD-AH/AD-AM.

Btw, NGD will also have to think of accommodating at least AD-AH as anti-HGV capabilities will become a must for future principle combatants. Even the comparable Northrop GPI is meant for naval launch.



Few thoughts on that:

>> With Kusha M1 in place, Barak-8 becomes essentially redundant. Not to mention, we'll need MF-STAR to guide Barak (unless we integrate it with LRMFR but that's a headache I don't see happening). Most likely, NGD will not carry any Baraks.

>> I think between AD-1 & AAD, only one will eventually go on NGD. Probably AD-1 as it's more advanced.

>> An exoatmospheric aka midcourse-capable interceptor will be a must otherwise there's no real theatre-level BMD cover for our carrier groups/taskforces. We won't be able to stop DF-26s (5,000-km capable) launched into IOR from Chinese mainland.

I don't know if it would have to be AD-2, modified PDV or something we haven't yet seen. But without it, NGD's area/fleet-defence capabilities will have huge holes in it.

Hi bro.

I do not have any official source. I just compared the M2 booster size with the M1 missile and came to that conclusion. It is just an educated guess.

 

[Parthu]

1. Maybe you are right about Barak 8 (it will be a headache to integrate with LRMFR) But I don't think Navy will leave such a big gaping hole where your only choices are 15 km VLSRSAM or 150 km Kusha M1.
But who knows what will happen in the future, your argument makes sense too.

See, currently the Barak-8 on our ships serves a one-size-fits-all approach. It serves both point- and area-defence needs, hence the 0.5-70 km reach.

But with a dedicated VLS for VL-SRSAM, the point-defence needs are fully taken care of. The only requirement left as far as AAW is concerned is area-defence. Plus, just because something has ~150 km max range doesn't mean it can't take care of targets at 100, 70 or 40 kms. But more range is better as it gives you more options. So in that segment, it wouldn't make any sense to divide your area-defence load between Kusha M1 & Barak-8.

2. AAD and AD-1 are 2 completely different class of missile, I don't think they are comparable at all, if anything they complement each other.
AAD has a confirmed (by DRDO) max altitude of >25km
where as AD-1 has been repeatedly hailed as capable of both endo and low exo atmospheric interception (i.e max altitude - The Karman Line)
My guess would be a max altitude of 80 km.

Indian Ballistic Missile Defence Programme - Updates and Discussions

Not our BMD related but posting it here. Does anyone know AD2's dimensions? I wonder, if it's designed with UVLS in mind or not. 13.5" = 343 mm 21" = 533mm 27" = 685mm (around brahmos diameter, if I am not wrong)

www.strategicfront.org

AAD range - Indian Ballistic Missile Defence Programme - Updates and Discussions

It's essentially the Barak-8 vs Kusha M1 story again. AD-1 basically does everything AAD can, but it can also do much more. So carrying AD-1 gives you more options than carrying AAD, while still being able to do everything AAD was needed for.

3. I get the debilitating need of a Exo Atmospheric interceptor on P18 but AD-2 is most definitely not that interceptor, we will need a completely new PDV replacement.
I think a somewhat bigger THAAD / HQ-19 sized interceptor is the only real option
i.e a 500 - 600 mm diameter, 7-8 m length, IIR seeker 160 km altitude interceptor

Yea, seems that way.

 

[Ashwin]

David's Sling with booster is around 5 meter. Kusha is lengthy.

 

[Fatalis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2080613305782272035

So, it is M1 with range of 150km.