Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Himanshu
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With the increase in capabilities of PN in subs, and 3-4 subs at sea, will we still be able to use our surface fleet in the Arabian Sea or will we not able to conduct ops there at all? Because if our navy will be limited to coastline we cannot blockade Pakistan at all!
While I don't discount Chinese advances in tech, the Type 039A is virtually identical to the Kilo 636 externally. The B version seems to have a more refined sail and hull form but none of the radical changes of the C model.
The IN should have a baseline acoustic signature profile from its 877EKMs and so P-8I crews likely know what to look for during asw sweeps.
Also, the Pak Hangor are reportedly fitted with Chinese diesels in place of German MTUs. Perhaps, they'd be easier to track, especially close to the coast.
Imo, a bigger challenge is the new midget sub that Pak is supposedly developing under the SWATS prog. This is to replace their Italian designed Cosmos boats.
As usual, their progs are shrouded in secrecy so one can only guess their capabilities.
The IN should have a baseline acoustic signature profile from its 877EKMs and so P-8I crews likely know what to look for during asw sweeps.
Also, the Pak Hangor are reportedly fitted with Chinese diesels in place of German MTUs. Perhaps, they'd be easier to track, especially close to the coast.
Imo, a bigger challenge is the new midget sub that Pak is supposedly developing under the SWATS prog. This is to replace their Italian designed Cosmos boats.
As usual, their progs are shrouded in secrecy so one can only guess their capabilities.
Cost , negotiations have been *CONCLUDED* for P75i.Wait the final bill......
If you are talking about hypothetical cost escalation later in the project, same can happen with additional scorpene too.
Blacksheep's answered that. Much more than the price is the inferior capability for that price. No VLS for example. We can buy 4 refurbished Kilos for the price of 1 Scorpene and get pretty much the same capabilities. The refurbished Kilos are being offered with all sorts of new tech.
I was never a fan of going beyond the 6 we bought.
TKMS and VEM Technologies join hands on torpedo production in India
German company TKMS has signed a teaming agreement with Indian defense firm VEM Technologies to cooperate on the transfer of torpedo technology and the joint development of heavyweight torpedoes in India.
www.navaltoday.com
The agreement marks the next step in the strategic partnership between the two companies following the memorandum of understanding signed in September 2025.
Under the deal, the partners will work toward establishing local production of modern heavyweight torpedoes for the Indian Navy while strengthening India’s technological independence and expanding the country’s domestic defense industry.
Michael Ozegowski, Executive Vice President of the ATLAS ELEKTRONIK segment at TKMS, said the agreement represents an important milestone in the companies’ cooperation.
“With this teaming agreement, we are completing the next important milestone in our strategic partnership with VEM and underlining our commitment to the Make-in-India initiative. The transfer of our torpedo technology enables VEM to make a decisive contribution to strengthening the Indian Navy and to India’s technological independence,” Ozegowski stated.
In the first phase, the agreement will provide the basis for the production of a heavyweight torpedo for the existing submarine fleet of the Indian Navy. The cooperation may later expand to include additional torpedo programs.
Over the medium term, the companies plan to establish a joint venture aimed at supplying the Indian market with modern heavyweight torpedoes while also exploring potential export opportunities.
As part of the cooperation, TKMS will support VEM through the transfer of relevant technologies and software licenses required to enable torpedo production at manufacturing facilities in India.
To remind, in September last year, TKMS signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with VEM Technologies for cooperation in the area of submarine weapons technologies. At that time, the partners noted that they were exploring further opportunities to expand their cooperation.
Hyderabad Firm VEM Ties Up with German TKMS to Manufacture Torpedoes for Indian Navy
A Hyderabad-based defence company, VEM Technologies Private Ltd, has signed a teaming agreement with German naval systems major ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) to manufacture heavyweight torpedoes
bharatshakti.in
Under the agreement, around 500 torpedoes are expected to be produced annually in India. The arrangement also includes the transfer of torpedo technology to VEM under the government’s Make in India initiative.
A teaming agreement typically involves a smaller company partnering with a larger firm to execute parts of a project. In this case, VEM will undertake procurement of raw materials, fabrication, manufacturing and final assembly at its facilities in Hyderabad.
The project will focus on producing heavyweight torpedoes for the Navy’s existing submarine fleet. Germany’s Atlas Elektronik, a subsidiary of TKMS, will provide the torpedo technology and associated software licences required for production.
So what happens to varunastra ?
Hyderabad Firm VEM Ties Up with German TKMS to Manufacture Torpedoes for Indian Navy
A Hyderabad-based defence company, VEM Technologies Private Ltd, has signed a teaming agreement with German naval systems major ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) to manufacture heavyweight torpedoes
Under the agreement, around 500 torpedoes are expected to be produced annually in India. The arrangement also includes the transfer of torpedo technology to VEM under the government’s Make in India initiative.
A teaming agreement typically involves a smaller company partnering with a larger firm to execute parts of a project. In this case, VEM will undertake procurement of raw materials, fabrication, manufacturing and final assembly at its facilities in Hyderabad.
The project will focus on producing heavyweight torpedoes for the Navy’s existing submarine fleet. Germany’s Atlas Elektronik, a subsidiary of TKMS, will provide the torpedo technology and associated software licences required for production.
So what happens to varunastra ?
Varunastra's for ships.
DRDO EHWT aka sub launched Varunastra will still be part of Kalvari class and upcoming P76 class arsenal.Hyderabad Firm VEM Ties Up with German TKMS to Manufacture Torpedoes for Indian Navy
A Hyderabad-based defence company, VEM Technologies Private Ltd, has signed a teaming agreement with German naval systems major ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) to manufacture heavyweight torpedoes
Under the agreement, around 500 torpedoes are expected to be produced annually in India. The arrangement also includes the transfer of torpedo technology to VEM under the government’s Make in India initiative.
A teaming agreement typically involves a smaller company partnering with a larger firm to execute parts of a project. In this case, VEM will undertake procurement of raw materials, fabrication, manufacturing and final assembly at its facilities in Hyderabad.
The project will focus on producing heavyweight torpedoes for the Navy’s existing submarine fleet. Germany’s Atlas Elektronik, a subsidiary of TKMS, will provide the torpedo technology and associated software licences required for production.
So what happens to varunastra
Noise level of improved kilo ( superior to Chinese junk Which porks are buying ) at 1 yard patrol speed as measured by NATO undersea surveillance systems.
Moder western nuclear subs are more silent at flank speeds than this despite being nuclear....... People have taken to much Chinese snake oil lately. Porkiye have no option other than Chinese systems now. These subs will be much easier to locate & eliminate.
There are many variables (even between boats of the same class that may cause sonar spikes) like ambient oceanic noise, mfg defects, crew activity, etc. So these figures can't be taken as gospel truth.
Kilo is generally regarded as one of the quieter Soviet designs by Western analysts - double hull, raft mounted machinery, etc. But it is certainly not top tier any more.
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Quite submarine by Soviet Russian standards not western. US military like to overhype Russian equipment to get Congress to release them more money, same is the case with Chinese nowadays. No doubt Russians have made great stride in sound silencing for there nuclear subs but west always had an edge due to inherit superior design of there submarines. Chinese following same kilo design philosophy for SSK put there temu junk on noisy territory & susceptible to early detection even in challenging environment. Regardless India answer should be speeding up P76 project along with massive investment in ASW assets.
Between the Type 039A and Type 039C, there have been some dramatic improvements with regard to external shaping, including X rudder.
New Improved Yuan Class Submarine In China, May Have VLS
A new type of submarine has been observed at the Wuchang shipyard in Wuhan, China. The vessel was spotted by Defense analyst Tom Shugart.Initial analysis suggests that it is noticibly longer than the existing Type-039A/B/C Yuan Class, and also features an X-form rudder…Read More >….
www.hisutton.com
The Pakistanis are reportedly getting the Type 039B which sits in between these two versions. But this boat also has Stirling AIP unlike any Kilo version till date. I'd say this is a competitive boat by any measure.
The Chinese may have gaps in their tech but they take what is available, keep iterating the heck out of it until they have a virtually new design (as in the case of Type 039C.)
Suits the Pakistanis just fine because they need mass at an affordable price point. Iirc, they are spending ~$5.5bn for 8 boats.
Otoh, the IN is spending $9b-$11b on 6 uber high tech boats of a bespoke design (Type 212 + Type 214 hybrid) while ignoring credible options like L&T SOV400 its follow-ons.
This at a time when there is renewed interest across the world for small, coastal subs for intel gathering, SF insertion, etc.
That doesnt even make any sense. They are jointly bidding for the contact.
Why even take these handles seriously?
& that's why bharat is & should invest heavily in ASW assets