Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions

Who will win the P75I program?

  • L&T and Navantia

    Votes: 12 40.0%
  • MDL and TKMS

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • It will get canceled eventually

    Votes: 13 43.3%

  • Total voters
    30
ANC islands are hugely unstable ? ie in terms of both as heritage place, tourist destination & natural disturbance+ecology wise ( storms, dangerous ecosystem etc) ?

Not that you can not build it, we should have by now and create multiple stations over there , at least some islands should be converted into proper military garrison. But then, we have not done that in the mainland both coasts yet so ANC is half a world away.
 
ANC islands are hugely unstable ? ie in terms of both as heritage place, tourist destination & natural disturbance+ecology wise ( storms, dangerous ecosystem etc) ?

Not that you can not build it, we should have by now and create multiple stations over there , at least some islands should be converted into proper military garrison. But then, we have not done that in the mainland both coasts yet so ANC is half a world away.
Submarine pen are possible in Karwar. . . . . Geography support it, similar to rambilli towards South.
 
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Question: can Diesel Electric submarine batteries be charged while sub stay submerged & without a need for it to snorkel ? Something like underwater charging cables which can be connected to submarine at certain rendezvous points.
 
Question: can Diesel Electric submarine batteries be charged while sub stay submerged & without a need for it to snorkel ? Something like underwater charging cables which can be connected to submarine at certain rendezvous points.
Submarine Support Ships of Soviets did try something like this. But then again, Americans started tracking those ships instead and the subs were found nearby.
 
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Submarine Support Ships of Soviets did try something like this. But then again, Americans started tracking those ships instead and the subs were found nearby.
Not support ships..... But like under water charging cables connected to mainland at one point & to a guided or unguided robotic Underwater vehicles at other...... Underwater vehicle than can connect the charging wire to the Submarine at one of the Rendezvous point while she remain submerged & undetected.

this can eliminate the need for a AIP System all together.
 
Not support ships..... But like under water charging cables connected to mainland at one point & to a guided or unguided robotic Underwater vehicles at other...... Underwater vehicle than can connect the charging wire to the Submarine at one of the Rendezvous point while she remain submerged & undetected.

this can eliminate the need for a AIP System all together.

This cable network would be fixed so they can easily be mapped by Chinese subs. Once locations is known, not difficult to find a sub. Currently P8s have to float sonar buoys over large areas which is the strength of submarines as ocean is huge. Any predictability there defeats the purpose.

Might aswell drop an underground station with torpedoes then.
 

India to hold trials in Spain for P-75 India submarine project by June-end; Madrid ready to fully back Airbus C-295 like deal, says Spanish firm​

India is looking to acquire six advanced conventional submarines with AIP system which would allow them to stay underwater for longer periods than the boats of previous generations without this system.


ANI | Updated: Jun 17, 2024 13:14 IST

New Delhi [India], June 17 (ANI): The Indian Navy is going to hold trials in Spain to test the critical equipment for its Project 75 India to get six advanced submarines by the end of this month, Spanish firm Navantia said.

In an exclusive interaction with ANI, Spanish shipyard Navantia's Chairman Ricardo Dominguez Garcia-Baquero said both the Spanish government and the Spanish Navy are very keen for the P75(I) project to progress and are willing to support in all possible ways.

"This includes expeditious export clearance, signing an umbrella agreement with Indian government etc., like in the case of the recent Airbus deal (for supplying C-295 transport aircraft) with an Indian Company (Tata)," he said in an email reply.

On the present status of the field trial being conducted by the Indian Navy, the Navantia Chairman said the field evaluation trials of Air Independent Propulsion by the Indian Navy are planned in the last week of June at our Shipyard in Cartagena.

"Our partner L&T and we are fully geared up for these trials and we look forward to showcase our world class AIP technology to the Indian Navy," he said.
India is looking to acquire six advanced conventional submarines with AIP system which would allow them to stay underwater for longer periods than the boats of previous generations without this system.

Along with the L&T and Navantia combine, German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems and Mazagaon Dockyards Limited together are also in the race for the over Rs 60,000 crore project.

Navantia has offered its S80 submarine design for the Indian Navy project, a submarine already commissioned to the Spanish Navy in 2023.
Navantia claimed that the important aspect of S80 design is the fact that it readily meets almost all the technical requirements of P75(I) without the need for any redesign.

"For example, the AIP designed for S80 produces more than 300 kW of power and, therefore, can be directly used for P75(I) without any redesign or scaling up. This would substantially mitigate major risks of Indian Navy with respect to P75(I) project," the Spanish firm said

The Navantia Chairman stated that the S80 offered to the Indian Navy has the most contemporary features and incorporates latest technologies such as third Generation BEST AIP (Bio-ethanol stealth Technology) and advanced sensor suite.

"L&T and Navantia have tied up with a partner to provide a proven Lithium-ion battery technology for the project. Navantia is fully committed to meet the Transfer of Technology requirements outlined in the Request for Proposal as well as the stipulated Indigenous Content, in-line with India's strategic goal to progressively achieve self-reliance in Submarine domain," he stated.

Baquero further said that several top ranking Spanish government officials have met their Indian counterparts over the last few months and expressed their unwavering commitment towards this project.

Navantia Chairman said that the company has been in constant dialogue with their Indian suppliers and has even shared technical requirements of various equipment/systems to ascertain their technical capability.

Our partner L&T is well known as a champion of indigenisation having led the indigenisation efforts across the defence sector over the past three decades," the firm said adding that they are confident that Navantia and L&T together would be able to comfortably meet the indigenous content requirements.

Praising their partner L&T for work in submarines and other areas, the Navantia Chairman said the idea of the strategic partnership itself is towards developing the Indian Private Sector for manufacturing of major defence platforms and equipment.
"Navantia believes the industrial partnership with L&T will not just meet the industrial requirements and the IN requirements, it opens opportunities to explore beyond submarines," he said. (ANI)
 

The Navy’s mega-submarine deal under Project-75I, estimated at over ₹43,000 crore, has crossed a major milestone in the process with the Field Evaluation Trials (FET) — to check the compliance of the bids received — now complete. There are two contenders in the fray: Germany’s TKMS (Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems) and Navantia of Spain.

While an Indian Navy team visited TKMS shipyard in March for FET, the evaluation of Navantia’s offer was conducted last week, officials confirmed.


The field evaluation report will now be compiled and presented to the Defence Ministry which will declare the bids that have cleared the FET; this is expected to take about two months, a defence official explained. Then, the bids would be opened and cost negotiations would commence with the qualified bidders.

Diplomatic sources said that Navantia would be demonstrating the Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system fitted in a submarine operating on the surface and not submerged and that the submerged performance would be demonstrated in due course.

The design offered by TKMS, which has partnered with Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL), is based on its highly successful Class 214 submarine as well as Class 212CD. Navantia, which has tied up with Larsen & Toubro, has offered a vessel based on its new S80 class of submarines, the first of which was launched in 2021 and was commissioned into the Spanish Navy as S-81 ‘Isaac Peral’ in November 2023.

The Request For Proposal (RFP) issued by the Navy, detailing the specifications required, states that the first submarine should have indigenous content (IC) of 45% which should go up to 60% for the sixth and last submarine. The key determinant, however, to qualify for P-75I is the AIP system, which enhances the endurance of a submarine.

In the backdrop of a decision on the deal, the top leaders of Germany and Spain are scheduled to visit India in the next few months during which they are expected to make a pitch for an inter-governmental agreement.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is scheduled to visit India in the second half of October for inter-governmental consultations. Spain’s President Pedro Sanchez is also expected to visit in the next few months.

In the past few months, Germany has simplified licensing requirements for the sale of military equipment to India as required under its BAFA (Federal Office for Economic Affairs and Export Control) and even granted small arms licence to India.

Only Germany and Spain submitted bids for the deal, the deadline for which saw several extensions before finally culminating in July 2023. The deal is being progressed under the Strategic Partnership model of the defence acquisition procedure and L&T and MDL are the two Indian shipyards shortlisted to partner with foreign submarine manufacturers to produce six advanced conventional submarines in India under technology transfer.

TKMS has conveyed to the Indian Navy that the lithium-ion cell in its AIP module will be upgraded by the time the first submarine is delivered. The AIP has a Polymer electrolyte membrane (PEM) based fuel cell and company officials said that it has both fuel cell and lithium-ion cell, giving it enhanced performance.

Jayant D. Patil, whole-time Director, and senior executive Vice President of L&T’sDefence Business had said in the past that Navantia’s AIP is the only 3rd Generation AIP solution in the world and uses bioethanol as a source of hydrogen, which is known to be cost-efficient and easily available.

As reported by The Hindu earlier, Germany has already presented a Government-to-government proposal to India for the sale of six conventional submarines under the P-75I programme, and a senior German delegation was in Delhi in January for discussions.
 
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This will be the best procurement in Indian military history after Nuclear Submarine..... This is basically Germany for the first time offering their top of the line product. It's once in a life time opportunity.
The Type 212 has diving depth limitations, so it will not be exactly that.

I think it's more of a modernisation of Type 218. The upcoming Dakar Class maybe.
Why won't it be exactly that ? & what diving dept limitations Type 212CD faces ?
 
This will be the best procurement in Indian military history after Nuclear Submarine..... This is basically Germany for the first time offering their top of the line product. It's once in a life time opportunity.

Why won't it be exactly that ? & what diving dept limitations Type 212CD faces ?
The Baltics are not exactly very deep. So their so called non magnetic hull is pretty useful there. But that has the limitations of strength due to which it cannot dive as deep as say it's normal export variant the Type 214 using conventional steel.

But in our context a lot of missions will happen in IOR given the increased Chinese presence here. So capabilities to dive deeper will be required.
 
No, they reengaged last year after revising their arms control laws, and the Koreans dropped out. Most likely, the offer is something closer to Type 212CD.

Type-212CD-Submarine-Scale-Drawing-770x410.jpg.webp
Type 212CD is the one offered to Netherlands. No reason to not offer us.
So, i guessed it right !. It will be based on Type-212CD.

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This will be the best procurement in Indian military history after Nuclear Submarine..... This is basically Germany for the first time offering their top of the line product. It's once in a life time opportunity.

Why won't it be exactly that ? & what diving dept limitations Type 212CD faces ?

They ve withheld suppling Rifles, delayed engines for Zorawar..

Will they really supply Top of the line Submarine?
 
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