Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions

Who will win the P75I program?

  • L&T and Navantia

    Votes: 12 40.0%
  • MDL and TKMS

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • It will get canceled eventually

    Votes: 13 43.3%

  • Total voters
    30
Naval Group is proposing FC2G AIP to Indonesia, instead of the old MESMA AIP.

Are you sure?
I read: «(…) Returning to the French proposal, the material definition of the CM-2000 Scorpene has evolved since its appearance in Indonesia at the beginning of 2016.

Initially, it was proposed to use the generic configuration of this submarine, which would then only benefit from a simple obsolescence treatment. The addition of a hull section with an AIP system was not proposed, which is why the Scorpene AM-2000 was not proposed.

It can be assumed that Naval Group no longer wishes to propose the MESMA (Module d'Energie Sous-Marine Autonome) while the so-called 3rd generation AIP module - FC2G (Fuel Cell 2nd Generation) which only burns diesel and no hydrogen - may not have a timetable consistent with these negotiations
. (…)»

i also read « lithium-ion battery ».
 
Spain? The country that made the S80 too heavy they needed help from USA to balance the ship, with a 10 meters add on ? No, it's not a serious partner.

Agreed. Of the three left, they are the least experienced. But their advantage is their offer is not a paper offer. And even if they needed help earlier, as long as their design works, it's gonna be accepted.

Of the three, France comes with a paper design, plus bound to be expensive. The Korean one has everything we need, but they don't want to offer VLS, it's like they don't want to win. And the Spanish design has no VLS, yet, but it could come with it, it's not difficult to add a VLS module after all. So their design is the most realistic option.
 
Agreed. Of the three left, they are the least experienced. But their advantage is their offer is not a paper offer. And even if they needed help earlier, as long as their design works, it's gonna be accepted.

Of the three, France comes with a paper design, plus bound to be expensive. The Korean one has everything we need, but they don't want to offer VLS, it's like they don't want to win. And the Spanish design has no VLS, yet, but it could come with it, it's not difficult to add a VLS module after all. So their design is the most realistic option.

We have a huge " Sense of Entitlement "

Advanced Technologies are Not Available and not for sale -- even if you want to pay , let us learn this lesson
 
Agreed. Of the three left, they are the least experienced. But their advantage is their offer is not a paper offer. And even if they needed help earlier, as long as their design works, it's gonna be accepted.

Of the three, France comes with a paper design, plus bound to be expensive. The Korean one has everything we need, but they don't want to offer VLS, it's like they don't want to win. And the Spanish design has no VLS, yet, but it could come with it, it's not difficult to add a VLS module after all. So their design is the most realistic option.
The S80 is over weighted (so slower than intended), over priced, fitted with US weapon system (not totally free to use).
How is the weapon system of the Korean design?
 
Advanced Technologies are Not Available and not for sale -- even if you want to pay
It depends.
See how the french then the US helped israel with missile & nuclear tech and fighters.
Not to speak of GB versus uncle sam.

India is a old, stable, non aligned and honnest french ally. I think India is among the very few country where a very substancial ToT may occur.
 
We have a huge " Sense of Entitlement "

Advanced Technologies are Not Available and not for sale -- even if you want to pay , let us learn this lesson

Which is why ToT expectation is 50%, not 100%.

The size of our orders does give us entitlement. Which is why we demand a lot and they also deliver.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Valhalla
The S80 is over weighted (so slower than intended),

Not an issue for us. We are getting an indigenous 5MW design, much better than their 3.5MW motor.

over priced,

Subjective.

The question is whether it meets requirements. Price is a secondary consideration.

fitted with US weapon system (not totally free to use).

We plan to use Indian weapons, regardless of submarine choice. So Brahmos, LRLACM, possibly an Indian torpedo. The Spanish are using a German torpedo.

How is the weapon system of the Korean design?

They are using a Tomahawk cousin as SLCM, an Iskander cousin as SLBM, 9M96 cousin as SAM and their own Tiger Shark torpedo. Most of their sensors are Korean, French and Spanish.

The large foreign component is probably why meeting IN's 50% ToT expectation is difficult for them.
 
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Agreed. Of the three left, they are the least experienced. But their advantage is their offer is not a paper offer. And even if they needed help earlier, as long as their design works, it's gonna be accepted.

Of the three, France comes with a paper design, plus bound to be expensive. The Korean one has everything we need, but they don't want to offer VLS, it's like they don't want to win. And the Spanish design has no VLS, yet, but it could come with it, it's not difficult to add a VLS module after all. So their design is the most realistic option.
IN is not looking for VLS though.
 
Same as MMRCA. We didn't choose based on price, we chose based on capabilities and selected Rafale and Typhoon, the most expensive options.
Not really. MMRCA was never inked because too costly.
The Rafale order was only an urgent stop gap purchase. 1/4 of the initial quantity.
 
Not really. MMRCA was never inked because too costly.
The Rafale order was only an urgent stop gap purchase. 1/4 of the initial quantity.

MMRCA became expensive because of HAL.

Anyway, our tender works in a two-step process. First we shortlist what meets our requirements and then we look at cost.

Air Marshal PK Barbora, Ex Vice Chief of Air Staff said, "The Air Force is not looking at price. That's not our area of concern. What we want is QRs are focussed on technical aspects, latest technology. Lot is available in the market and there is potential for future growth."
 
A follow on for Scorpene or P75I or a g2g, whatever they want to do, do it fast. 🥲
I completely agree ...We need to do it now not tomorrow, Why we are not going for our own DRDO AIP system with the existing scorpene design I have no idea. If we talking about atmanirbhar we should give Drdo a chance to use our own AIP systems. we are looking towards the west when we are designing nuclear submarines. The problem we talk too much about ideas but when it's the time for implementation we escape...
 
If we talking about atmanirbhar we should give Drdo a chance to use our own AIP systems.
Better way is to make all vvip transport purchase an atmanirbhar cover up. Let the political leadership take the lead and spare defence forces from taking risk.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: A Person