Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions

Listen man, I dont really like to be in this situation but what other option do we have? the F35 is simply not going to happen even if we wanted it cause S400 and US the gov has to approve it on top of lobbying from pak.
there is quite literally no other 5th gen on the line today. The su57 is good enough for defensive purposes as it has good frontal RCS but mediocre all aspect(still better than every single 4th gen in existence no matter what rafale fanboys say). we can integrate it without worries into our ADS and any future indian made versions would have our own radars like the virupaksha-lite or whatever. We could simply use a beefed up version of the AMCA radar. hell even photonic backend radars are not out of the question that far in the future(5 ish years from now).
Chester Nimitz said:
Why are you so adamant of Su 57

The AL 51 is not even ready , Su 75 Checkmate the F-35 rival is nowhere seen.

Many parts in Su 57 and S400 were from West and East Asia which have been choked since 2014.

I don't see Su 57 anything better than Su 30 replacements

Calling Su 30 better than Rafale is again comparing a HCA with MCA , Rafale has better RCS and better in Himalayas therefore EF Typhoon and Rafale won MMRCA.

Not to forget Snecma engine has 90 % availability rate compared to 60 % of AL31
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Rajput Lion said:
Because it's our "ONLY" counter to PAF's J-35AE fleet.

AL-41F1 will be later swapped by Item 177 in due time. Su-57, as it is, is good enough to kill J-20 & J-35A. That's what matter to us now.

Lol.

Lolol.

Read @vstol Jockey's comment, then come back to me.

Last year's skirmish proved that MKI, BrahMos and S-400, i.e., three weapons/systems of Russian origin were the real game-changers. That's why we decided to procure Su-57 after the Ops.
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Their shitty availability rate is also a concern

Both IAF and IN have been wanting to move to NATO grade weapons away from Ruskies
This includes French and Israeli arms as well.

R-37m acquisition makes sense
So does Su 57 as a stop gap

But the era of Russian might in arms is receding every day and China has overtaken them in R&D by miles
 
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Chester Nimitz said:
Their shitty availability rate is also a concern
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MKI's availability rate has improved significantly.
Chester Nimitz said:
Both IAF and IN have been wanting to move to NATO grade weapons away from Ruskies
This includes French and Israeli arms as well.
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Lol, that's why we're buying plethora of new Russian weapons.
Chester Nimitz said:
R-37m acquisition makes sense
So does Su 57 as a stop gap
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Su-57 will be far more than just a stop-gap. Wait and watch;)
Chester Nimitz said:
But the era of Russian might in arms is receding every day and China has overtaken them in R&D by miles
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Not yet and not in every domain brah.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
MKI's availability rate has improved significantly.

Lol, that's why we're buying plethora of new Russian weapons.

Su-57 will be far more than just a stop-gap. Wait and watch;)

Not yet and not in every domain brah.
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we are buying only for Geopolitical Hafta, maintaining integration & Cheaper than wester maal.

Russians are good at AD , armour and guns | May be drones like Rubicon

But for Electronics , Naval designs and systems they are laggards.

DRDO fuel cell AIP is ready before ruskies could make one proper.

The radars in Navy Mig 29 are crumbling and Navy is planning to put Uttam or Data Pattern Hawk radar
 
Chester Nimitz said:
Their shitty availability rate is also a concern

Both IAF and IN have been wanting to move to NATO grade weapons away from Ruskies
This includes French and Israeli arms as well.

R-37m acquisition makes sense
So does Su 57 as a stop gap

But the era of Russian might in arms is receding every day and China has overtaken them in R&D by miles
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Chinese are nowhere close to Russians except maybe in some electronic segment not whole. Chinese to this day rely heavily on Ex-Soviet states like Ukraine other than Russia of course for critical technologies which is not provided by West.
 
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safriz said:
I have family in this area .
They may have a story to tell.

On topic. These relics F7 should have been retired long ago.
Oh wait , we still flying mirages 😅
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24 years old today, it's pretty much at the end.

Overall there are still 150 old jets left, that's too many to replace in a short time. And there's talk about junking JF-17 B1 too. So 200.

Only the F-16 replacement is going as planned with the J-10 and J-35.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
Reportedly, PAF is also moving ahead with acquiring around 65 KAAN stealth fighters along with 40 J-35AEs.
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Kaan is atleast 7 year from now. And i dont think paf need kaan.

Building ecosystem around j35ae us better choice, they should plan to operate over 150 in course of 2 decadew from now

Anyways j35 > kaan, also more future potential as j35 is main navel fighter of superpower china hence lots of upgrades on time with lots of new weapon
 
randomradio said:
24 years old today, it's pretty much at the end.

Overall there are still 150 old jets left, that's too many to replace in a short time. And there's talk about junking JF-17 B1 too. So 200.

Only the F-16 replacement is going as planned with the J-10 and J-35.
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The PGs are actually not that old. We flew the Fishbeds for 4 decades.
If Chengdu supports the fleet, it can go for 10 more years.

The immediate issue would be the Mirage III/V. But last I checked only the ROSEs remain active, rest are in reserves now. With Block III deliveries, that would be closed.

J10 order needs to be increased to actually replace the 2 oldest F16 squadron.

I am more worried that eventually Uncle SAM will allow Vipers to be sold.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
The PGs are actually not that old. We flew the Fishbeds for 4 decades.
If Chengdu supports the fleet, it can go for 10 more years.

The immediate issue would be the Mirage III/V. But last I checked only the ROSEs remain active, rest are in reserves now. With Block III deliveries, that would be closed.

J10 order needs to be increased to actually replace the 2 oldest F16 squadron.

I am more worried that eventually Uncle SAM will allow Vipers to be sold.
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PG service life is 2500 hours on average. So it's at end of life without a SLEP. Ours was with SLEP.

Many are still operational. About 4-5 squadrons left. Overall, they need around 450 fighter jets. At 180 JF-17 and 36 J-10s, they are only assured of 220 jets apart from 40 more J-35. So they need another 200 overall, not counting the plan to replace the first 50 JF-17s. So about 250 in reality.

They can upgrade the JF-17 with WS-21 on a Block 4 and produce the jet and engine domestically to get those extra 150+ jets.

Based on their deal last year, it looks like they plan to extend the life of their F-16s to 2040, perhaps with an AESA radar and other upgrades. I don't see them going for new F-16s over the cheaper J-35s, those F-16s are too expensive and don't come with easy payment terms. Attrition replacements are likely though, and likely via begging, like the TPS-77s.

They are not in a comfortable position.
 
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I gotta say. the pakistan military does seem like they do a better job at utilising their limited resources, they upgrade just enough to neutralise us from having some huge advantage and just buy the rest from China or Turkey. In a way, it's a good thing that pakistan has allies like Turkey and China who supplies them advanced weapons, else some of our baba's who lack vision, wouldn't put the necessary focus on our r&d and industries to level the playing field which will make our own industry a global power in the future.
 
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batman said:
I gotta say. the pakistan military does seem like they do a better job at utilising their limited resources, they upgrade just enough to neutralise us from having some huge advantage and just buy the rest from China or Turkey. In a way, it's a good thing that pakistan has allies like Turkey and China who supplies them advanced weapons, else some of our baba's who lack vision, wouldn't put the necessary focus on our r&d and industries to level the playing field which will make our own industry a global power in the future.
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They also pay same as us, even more than us, just that their means of payment are different:
a. They pay with: lack of strategic independence: Getting pulled into Afghanistan war twice, with disastrous domestic consequences was the price to pay to get F16s for free
b. They pay with: foreign supplier dependence: Being completely dependent on China for JF17 upgrades despite it being a "joint project" was the price to pay to get it for cheap. They can never expect to achieve what are doing MKIzation and Super sukhoi upgrades.

It depends on what price you are willing to pay
 
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batman said:
I gotta say. the pakistan military does seem like they do a better job at utilising their limited resources, they upgrade just enough to neutralise us from having some huge advantage and just buy the rest from China or Turkey. In a way, it's a good thing that pakistan has allies like Turkey and China who supplies them advanced weapons, else some of our baba's who lack vision, wouldn't put the necessary focus on our r&d and industries to level the playing field which will make our own industry a global power in the future.
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Yes, they do muddle through, but what has happened in Sindoor, if I were Munir, I wouldn't put my faith in PAF to be able to hold off India for long.

I wonder if that is why they are investing in the new rocket force.

Geography will play brutal havoc for them, especially due to the advent of drones. Their air strips will most certainly targetted and if they can't invest in proper air defence, they would not be able to maintain sorties.

Especially considering they are further investing in maintenance-heavy twin-engine jets like J35, which require specialised maintenance for the stealth coating, etc. If I were PAF, I would invest in something like Gripen.

They are also a good Chinese immunisation shot in a philosophical sense for IAF if India can finally figure out its procurement malaise. Look at the LODN effort we are making. It would be proven against Pakistan before China.
 
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