Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions

That statement is extremely general.

But no, the NGJ isn't designed for stealthy operations. The RCS of the Growler becomes too big when carrying those humongous pods which are not designed for stealth in the first place.

It's pointless too. The Growler's job is to hide the strike package, not itself. It offers modified escort, so it won't be operating inside SAM rings in the first place, making any attempt at stealth moot. Now if the strike package is carrying internal hardware for AC, then that's a different story.

Plus, AC is not a "high-powered" response. You don't get AC if you don't exactly match the amplitude of the echo. AC is not jamming, it's not a response. It's a signature reduction method no different from passive stealth. So that statement is referring to jamming. The word cancel in it is to simplify it for the layman.

NGJ isn't sensor-fused anyway. It works in isolation.
NGJ is not "working in isolation", that's wrong.

The system is fully integrated with the EA-18G's AN/ALQ-218(V)2 wingtip receivers, ALQ-227 comms countermeasures, and the Next Generation EAU (NGEAU) upgrade. It uses reactive electronic attack measures with machine-learning algorithms to autonomously process unknown signals, fuse data, and respond in even dense EM environments, It can attack multiple targets simultaneously while sharing data with the strike package via Link-16/TTNT. The pods were explicitly designed to integrate with the aircraft's existing EW architecture — not standalone


NGJ (both Mid-Band/AN/ALQ-249 by Raytheon and Low-Band by L3Harris) is fundamentally an Airborne Electronic Attack (AEA) system focused on disruption, denial, degradation, *signature management* and deception of enemy radars, communications, and datalinks.





On Rafale, it provides VLO. On a Super Hornet, maybe it won't. It's about how you design the jet to use it.

AC is not exclusive to the French, but Rafale using AC to get into LO/VLO is specific to Rafale. Your point is the opposite of what it is.
Spectra incorporates coherent jamming and phase-shifting techniques that resemble active cancellation principles: detecting incoming radar waves, analyzing them, and transmitting phase-inverted replicas to interfere destructively at the enemy receiver. This can distort perceived position, range, or RCS in specific scenarios, but Official docs emphasize deception/jamming over stealth, EX:"altering the wave to fool the radar" or "dummy echoes." No Thales or Dassault source states SPECTRA makes the Rafale VLO.

Its signature reduction at best.


AC works best against predictable, narrowband, monostatic radars with known waveforms. Modern AESA/LPI radars (ex.:with frequency agility, low-PRF modes, or bistatic configs) make perfect cancellation extremely difficult—timing jitter, multi-path, or geometry mismatches can amplify rather than cancel returns.


rafale is not VLO, not matter how integrated its EW suite is and no matter how many jagged/serrated edges its has on its fuselage, canards,wings.
 
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No discussion so far for PAF $12 Billion deal with AVIC for Kj-500 , HQ-19 and J-35A

Firstly whole Pak Armed Forces budget is 9 Bn , so how come PAF acquisitions itself of 12 Bn

Secondly can this HQ-19 work against the ALBMs IAF has been banking on lately from the Israelis

KJ-500 would replace the lost SAAB Erieyes and provide better datalink to J-10 , JF-17

How effective would it be in EW environment.
 

No discussion so far for PAF $12 Billion deal with AVIC for Kj-500 , HQ-19 and J-35A

Firstly whole Pak Armed Forces budget is 9 Bn , so how come PAF acquisitions itself of 12 Bn

Secondly can this HQ-19 work against the ALBMs IAF has been banking on lately from the Israelis

KJ-500 would replace the lost SAAB Erieyes and provide better datalink to J-10 , JF-17

How effective would it be in EW environment.
Sooner or later PAF will get KJ-500, J-35AE, more J-10CEs & even KAAN from both China and Turkey. We need to get our counter ready.
 
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Firstly whole Pak Armed Forces budget is 9 Bn , so how come PAF acquisitions itself of 12 Bn
The entire deal seems dubious, but the intentions are definitely there from pak side, as for how they will aquire it if they really went for it, the answer is *loans*, more loans that they can't pay back.

Secondly can this HQ-19 work against the ALBMs IAF has been banking on lately from the Israelis
Yes it can work, it can also be hunted down by our side.


KJ-500 would replace the lost SAAB Erieyes and provide better datalink to J-10 , JF-17
Yes.

How effective would it be in EW environment
Should be decent, given its an up to date system.
 
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Sooner or later PAF will get KJ-500, J-35AE, more J-10CEs & even KAAN from both China and Turkey. We need to get our counter ready.
PAF has also catched up in Space domain via China recently while ISRO has had failed launches and no Backup by PMO

NaVIC has also been backed by Modi and we are dependent on GPS or GLONASS

While PAF will have access to Beidou like Iran had plus their own satellite system.

Moreover, AWACS and EW aircraft are nowhere since a decade.

IAF can mount Israeli IAI Scorpius on Su 30 but nothing so far
 
PAF has also catched up in Space domain via China recently while ISRO has had failed launches and no Backup by PMO

NaVIC has also been backed by Modi and we are dependent on GPS or GLONASS

While PAF will have access to Beidou like Iran had plus their own satellite system.

Moreover, AWACS and EW aircraft are nowhere since a decade.

IAF can mount Israeli IAI Scorpius on Su 30 but nothing so far
and India can use the russian system at military specs so its not that serious. We need the NAVIC vs china not pakistan since russia with china is a suspect partner btu against pakistan is reliable while the exact opposite is true for the US
 
PAF has also catched up in Space domain via China recently while ISRO has had failed launches and no Backup by PMO
We are about to launch 50+ military statellites very soon.
NaVIC has also been backed by Modi and we are dependent on GPS or GLONASS

While PAF will have access to Beidou like Iran had plus their own satellite system.
We have a counter for that.
Moreover, AWACS and EW aircraft are nowhere since a decade.
Upcoming.
IAF can mount Israeli IAI Scorpius on Su 30 but nothing so far
Our own GaN ASPJ pods are as good as they get. Don't underestimate IAF or our EW.
 
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PAF has also catched up in Space domain via China recently while ISRO has had failed launches and no Backup by PMO

NaVIC has also been backed by Modi and we are dependent on GPS or GLONASS

Satellite domain is basically more work ful against China. But this is of concern that satellites are missing, hopefully this is they have at least 3-4 up.
 
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Satellite domain is basically more work ful against China. But this is of concern that satellites are missing, hopefully this is they have at least 3-4 up.
NavIC failure is because of imported Atomic Clock. We need a desi substitute. Can't rely on unreliable foreign partners when it comes to cutting-edge space/military tech with Russia being the only exception(somewhat).
 
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We are about to launch 50+ military statellites very soon.

We have a counter for that.

Upcoming.

Our own GaN ASPJ pods are as good as they get. Don't underestimate IAF or our EW.
I don't see Indian DRDO EW anywhere close to Israelis

They are best and relying on eveything indigenous is very time-taking

PAF conflict can start anytime when a terrorist attack happens and they are restocking via Chinese and Turkish

You can't just keep looking at future while risking present

So called NETRA are delayed till 2030s
 
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I don't see Indian DRDO EW anywhere close to Israelis

They are best and relying on eveything indigenous is very time-taking

PAF conflict can start anytime when a terrorist attack happens and they are restocking via Chinese and Turkish

You can't just keep looking at future while risking present

So called NETRA are delayed till 2030s
Whatever we have got till date, is good enough to whoop Pak multiple times over as the entire world saw during last year's skirmish. And under Modi, our defence structure is getting stronger by the day. 'Nuff said.
 
Whatever we have got till date, is good enough to whoop Pak multiple times over as the entire world saw during last year's skirmish. And under Modi, our defence structure is getting stronger by the day. 'Nuff said.
Its is enough TODAY, will it be enough in the future if pakistan gets the J35 and the KJ500 and the HQ19 is the actual question.
we could probably hit most of their mil factories and disable them as pakistan has very little depth to the country but we would take heavy losses.

I don't see Indian DRDO EW anywhere close to Israelis

They are best and relying on eveything indigenous is very time-taking

PAF conflict can start anytime when a terrorist attack happens and they are restocking via Chinese and Turkish

You can't just keep looking at future while risking present

So called NETRA are delayed till 2030s
Netra mk2 would be delivered one er year from 2028 ish onwards so by 2033 we should have all 6 and the mk1a would be done by 2029-2030 ish as long as things dont get delayed by wayyy to much.

Mate the israeli pods are literally a generation behind the current DRDO pod, the future israeli pod maybe slightly ahead but not by much. GaN vs GaAs and PICs in the future for the DRDO pod will make a huge difference.

PAF until they get the J35 and KJ500 combo arent all that hard to beat. once they get that they will have enough detterance to at least bleed India quite well before they die. the 20J35 are not wonder weapons that will win you a war but detterance that will make India think twice. Until ofc we get our own photonic radars and the complete anti stealth grid active.
 
Its is enough TODAY, will it be enough in the future if pakistan gets the J35 and the KJ500 and the HQ19 is the actual question.
we could probably hit most of their mil factories and disable them as pakistan has very little depth to the country but we would take heavy losses.


Netra mk2 would be delivered one er year from 2028 ish onwards so by 2033 we should have all 6 and the mk1a would be done by 2029-2030 ish as long as things dont get delayed by wayyy to much.

Mate the israeli pods are literally a generation behind the current DRDO pod, the future israeli pod maybe slightly ahead but not by much. GaN vs GaAs and PICs in the future for the DRDO pod will make a huge difference.

PAF until they get the J35 and KJ500 combo arent all that hard to beat. once they get that they will have enough detterance to at least bleed India quite well before they die. the 20J35 are not wonder weapons that will win you a war but detterance that will make India think twice. Until ofc we get our own photonic radars and the complete anti stealth grid active.
What makes you think that we are oblivious to the fact that they are trying to acquire 5th gen fighters & Rotodome AWACS etc.? We know what they are trying and our counter is ready as well.
 
Mate im not saying we are oblivious but more so its not going to be As easy as it is today. We will take significant losses in case of a war.
Even today J-10CE with PL-15 is a significant challenge for us, yet we hit them with impunity. No J-35 or KJ-500 will shift the calculus towards Pakistan. We are way too powerful for them and they know it.
 
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Even today J-10CE with PL-15 is a significant challenge for us, yet we hit them with impunity. No J-35 or KJ-500 will shift the calculus towards Pakistan. We are way too powerful for them and they know it.
Mate we beat them in a war regarless of what wonder weapon they might get, theyre too poor to even sustain a 1 month conflict let alone furthur. The issue is the amount of losses we would take to achieve our objectives.
 
The IAF sorely needs a dedicated Wild Weasel ew ac. For an AF with a long history of operating dedicated ew variants of MiG-21s as far back as the 1970s, this gap is a huge gamble.

While India has considerable ground based SIGINT/ELINT, they are no substitute for airborne ew. I don't mean standoff ew ac like DA-20s which cannot outrun SAMs as the PAF would have learned during Op Sindoor.

I'd much rather we repackage the tech being developed for the DRDO SCA onto
MKI class airframes for redundancy. A 'swarm approach' if you will.
 
NavIC failure is because of imported Atomic Clock. We need a desi substitute. Can't rely on unreliable foreign partners when it comes to cutting-edge space/military tech with Russia being the only exception(somewhat).

Normally satellites are sent with two or more atomic clocks, in case one fails. All failing together is a serious issue. Even the ESA had issues with the same manufacturer. Desi substitute is already there now.
 
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Chinese AVIC has already rolled out first J-35AE export model. Looks like it is slated for PAF. So J-35AE deliveries for PAF looks imminent now while neither we have signed Rafale(MRFA) or Su-57(40-60 stop-gap) deal till date. Supposedly, PAF is getting J-35AE with KJ-500 and sensor-fusion with HQ-9/19 batteries in a very complex 'sensor-shooter' loop.
 
Chinese AVIC has already rolled out first J-35AE export model. Looks like it is slated for PAF. So J-35AE deliveries for PAF looks imminent now while neither we have signed Rafale(MRFA) or Su-57(40-60 stop-gap) deal till date. Supposedly, PAF is getting J-35AE with KJ-500 and sensor-fusion with HQ-9/19 batteries in a very complex 'sensor-shooter' loop.

Man, at least sign the damn Rafale deal. It's embarassing, man. Maybe SU57 deal is already secretly signed just like Vietnam.