Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions

randomradio said:
The J-35 isn't a threat due to its isolation. PAF needs to rebuild their radars, SAMs, EW systems, surveillance, and have them all integrated before it can become one.
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The J-35 is essentially a carrier based jet adapted for land ops. As such, it appears to be designed for the standalone 'door kicker' role much like the Litening-2.

Its dependence on GCI/IADS is likely minimal compared to say, the Su-57. In PLAAF service, it is designed to complement the J-20.

That presupposes a high degree of tactical flexibility or isolation as you put it.
 
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Speedster1 said:
The J-35 is essentially a carrier based jet adapted for land ops. As such, it appears to be designed for the standalone 'door kicker' role much like the Litening-2.

Its dependence on GCI/IADS is likely minimal compared to say, the Su-57. In PLAAF service, it is designed to complement the J-20.

That presupposes a high degree of tactical flexibility or isolation as you put it.
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For the PLAN, the J-35 seems to be a light multirole leaning towards AS to complement a larger and heavier 6th gen jet. So its primary job is likely fleet defense and sea denial. The Hornet to the SH.

It's a tailed 5th gen, it cannot function in isolation, neither can the F-35. Multi-spectral broadband stealth is now a requirement for that.
 
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randomradio said:
For the PLAN, the J-35 seems to be a light multirole leaning towards AS to complement a larger and heavier 6th gen jet. So its primary job is likely fleet defense and sea denial. The Hornet to the SH.

It's a tailed 5th gen, it cannot function in isolation, neither can the F-35. Multi-spectral broadband stealth is now a requirement for that.
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The PLAN J-35 is in the 30t MTOW class which makes it a heavy MRCA by itself. It will likely take over as the lead fighter for the PLAN until the J-50 comes online.

Much heavier than the F/A-18C which was under 25t MTOW iirc.
 
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Speedster1 said:
The PLAN J-35 is in the 30t MTOW class which makes it a heavy MRCA by itself. It will likely take over as the lead fighter for the PLAN until the J-50 comes online.

Much heavier than the F/A-18C which was under 25t MTOW iirc.
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It's part of their hi-lo structure. They are just aping the Americans.

And it's not heavy. We can tell by the thrust requirements. It's up to 116 kN, so combined less than 240 kN. For a 5th gen jet, heavy is well above 320 kN combined.

What really matters is the loaded weight, ie, OEW + full internal fuel + IWB weapons. Medium jets are around 20-23T, heavy jets are closer to 30T. That's how the maintain TWR above 1.
 
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randomradio said:
The J-35 isn't a threat due to its isolation. PAF needs to rebuild their radars, SAMs, EW systems, surveillance, and have them all integrated before it can become one.

Plus the PAF is yet to find an answer to deal with long range SAMs like the S-400 and the IAF's long range fires. They won't find that answer in the J-35 at the very least.

In the meantime, the IAF has already deployed new anti-stealth surveillance systems in large numbers under the Sudarshan Chakra program while also exloring import options to make up for Gandiva's delays. R-37M (350 km, AWACS killer) and Israel's Sky Sting (PL-16 competitor) are stopgap options. Sky Sting's range is far more than the advertised 250 km.
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J-35AE with internally mounted PL-15 is going to be the gravest threat that our fighters will face in future from our (North)/Western side.
 
randomradio said:
It's part of their hi-lo structure. They are just aping the Americans.

And it's not heavy. We can tell by the thrust requirements. It's up to 116 kN, so combined less than 240 kN. For a 5th gen jet, heavy is well above 320 kN combined.

What really matters is the loaded weight, ie, OEW + full internal fuel + IWB weapons. Medium jets are around 20-23T, heavy jets are closer to 30T. That's how the maintain TWR above 1.
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The carrier based J-35 is reportedly heavier than the AF version. Its because of the additional mods like arrestor hook, wing folding, bigger wing area et all (a la F-35C).

Iirc, the AF version is ~28t which, to me, is still a heavy jet.

It still does around Mach 1.8 so I'd imagine the TWR is decent.
 
Speedster1 said:
The carrier based J-35 is reportedly heavier than the AF version. Its because of the additional mods like arrestor hook, wing folding, bigger wing area et all (a la F-35C).

Iirc, the AF version is ~28t which, to me, is still a heavy jet.

It still does around Mach 1.8 so I'd imagine the TWR is decent.
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It's in the same weight class as the TEDBF, that's not heavy. J-20 is heavy; Su-57, F-22 etc.

J-35, AMCA, TEDBF, SH, same class.

You don't need TWR for speed.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
They are hoping to receive their first J-35AE by the end of this year or early next year.
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Could have been a threat on 7th May last year. After 7th, it became a museum piece.

They have to rebuild their entire ADGE from scratch, effectively. They are in the market for new EW aircraft too, for standoff jamming. So at least 10 years away from becoming a threat again.
 
Ashwin said:
According to updated SIPRI database PAF ordered 40 J35 and HQ-19 last year.
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Can you provide link to this database? And how do they consider something as order? Like do they consider some country showing an interest to acquire something as order? Or they consider something ordered if a formal agreement happens?
 
randomradio said:
Could have been a threat on 7th May last year. After 7th, it became a museum piece.

They have to rebuild their entire ADGE from scratch, effectively. They are in the market for new EW aircraft too, for standoff jamming. So at least 10 years away from becoming a threat again.
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WTF? no? We did destroy a significant amount but we didnt kill everything. The chinese will be more than happy to help pakistan as long they remain a serious thorn in India's side.
 
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lmaoxd said:
WTF? no? We did destroy a significant amount but we didnt kill everything. The chinese will be more than happy to help pakistan as long they remain a serious thorn in India's side.
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No, we did not destroy everything, but whatever survives is largely irrelevant today.

Different story had we struggled to take some out, but if we essentially grounded them after the first day, then that's not saying a lot for what's left. The entire PAF failed after all.

The F-16s were already outdated. Only 25 JF-17 B3 were cutting edge along with 20 J-10C, but both were rendered useless. One of I think 2 HQ-9 SAM sites were taken out (Lahore). 1 HQ-16 site (Okara) out of 3 was taken out. We shot down 1 HVA and took out another on the ground. 2 command centers were taken out; Murid and Chaklala, by penetrating the SAMs protecting the bases. Of course, multiple bases were penetrated and hangars were destroyed and runways were cratered; Jacobabad, Bholari, Sukkur, Sargodha, and Rahim Yar Khan. We also took out 6 radars, 3 included the American TPS-77. They had a total of 6 TPS-77s, and the Pakistanis are begging for the US to donate replacements. Another radar was a Chinese supplied anti-stealth radar. And let's not forget the attack on Kirana's tunnel.

While all we did was demonstrate capabilities, we still managed to defeat every advanced weapon system they have.

So now they are sticking Italian AESA radars in their old Mirages. Older JF-17s should also get AESA. PAF's F-16 B52 have been cleared for upgrades, so we are potentially talking AESA + AIM-120D along with a new EW suite. Funnily enough, they have moved the fleet to Pasni, near Gwadar. There's the J-36 coming up.

PAF is working with Turkey to overhaul their air defenses and command centers. Turkey's gonna deliver 2 new mobile command posts this year. HAVASOJ standoff radar and comm jammers on a Global 6000. With the PAF's lone HQ-9 system taken out, the other one is with PA, they can now make the switch to Turkey's SIPER ADS.

You can imagine the level of effort required to stay relevant.
 
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randomradio said:
Could have been a threat on 7th May last year. After 7th, it became a museum piece.

They have to rebuild their entire ADGE from scratch, effectively. They are in the market for new EW aircraft too, for standoff jamming. So at least 10 years away from becoming a threat again.
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Their Sugar Daddy would ensure that they remain a threat to us. Providing them J-35s for free/half-price/loan etc., is their way of doing that. And J-35AE won't come alone but with a full shebang, i.e., KJ-500.

J-35AE may passively launch its PL-16/15/17 against our Rafales/Su-30s/HVAs well within MAR of the missile or even its NEZ, while KJ-500 guides it towards the target.

The threat is serious, that is why soon the world will know about our Su-57M1/2 acquisition.
 
Rajput Lion said:
Their Sugar Daddy would ensure that they remain a threat to us. Providing them J-35s for free/half-price/loan etc., is their way of doing that. And J-35AE won't come alone but with a full shebang, i.e., KJ-500.

J-35AE may passively launch its PL-16/15/17 against our Rafales/Su-30s/HVAs well within MAR of the missile or even its NEZ, while KJ-500 guides it towards the target.
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KJ-500 has to deal with the same threat, the S-400, which it cannot. The lack of depth means they have to operate on the fringes of the Af-Pak border. They are not going to shoot down anything from there. And the IAF is working with Russia to further increase the range of the S-400.

As for J-35, we already have multistatic capabilities on the S-400 and MRSAM, and the upcoming HPRs (essentially the MFSTAR) will further boost detection range, with the Surya VHF acting as a stealth spotlight.

The only real threat to the IAF is if the PAF inducts 6th gen jets with multispectral stealth. We currently have the best air defenses in the world. And we are only a few years away from matching the world in terms of EW and networking too.

Rajput Lion said:
The threat is serious, that is why soon the world will know about our Su-57M1/2 acquisition.
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The Rafale itself is likely to be more stealthy than the J-35 via AC, so why fret? CSIR calls it RCSR.
 
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randomradio said:
The F-16s were already outdated.
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Their F-16 B52s are quite contemporary with AIM-120 C5. The rest of the fleet is older model A/B but those were put through a limited upg via TAI some years ago. As per Vishnu Som, the new comms + SLEP upgrades will keep the PAF Viper fleet competitive well into the 2040s.

I'd say they are already comparable to the M29 UPG, except the latter doesn't have a modern BVR.

The Chinese are likely shifting focus to the PL-16, now that the PL-15 tech is compromised. The JF-17 will likely launch them passively via midcourse updates from the J-10C. Similar to our MKI + LCA Mk1/A playbook.

Our AWACS fleet is stretched atm and we are too reliant on IACCS/ADGES for supporting air ops.
 
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Speedster1 said:
Their F-16 B52s are quite contemporary with AIM-120 C5. The rest of the fleet is older model A/B but those were put through a limited upg via TAI some years ago. As per Vishnu Som, the new comms + SLEP upgrades will keep the PAF Viper fleet competitive well into the 2040s.

I'd say they are already comparable to the M29 UPG, except the latter doesn't have a modern BVR.

The Chinese are likely shifting focus to the PL-16, now that the PL-15 tech is compromised. The JF-17 will likely launch them passively via midcourse updates from the J-10C. Similar to our MKI + LCA Mk1/A playbook.

Our AWACS fleet is stretched atm and we are too reliant on IACCS/ADGES for supporting air ops.
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All our problems have only one solution-- Missiles

Missiles to stretch , degrade and destroy enemy air Defences

And slam into the bases and hangers and command and control centres

We must simply Double our missile inventory
 
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