Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions

Moreover the Pashtuns have never quite forgotten the lands they've lost in KPK FATA or the fact that they've ruled over the Indian sub continent beginning with Paxtani Punjab. They actually consider Paxtan to be an artificial construct much more than us & believe they're the rightful owners of that land & that it's they who must border India.
The Pakistanis fear that India is cashing in its (financial aid) chips in Afg to create trouble for them. Reports say that the Afghans have received Konkurs ATGM (of which we have ample stocks) from an unknown intel agency.

That's probably why the Pakistanis got the Chinese to broker a deal with Kabul post haste. Anyhow, as long as there's no agreement on the Durand Line, the Pakistanis will be on the recieving end of Afg wrath.

Can't say about the Taliban leadership but the Afg intel services nurse a special hatred for the Pak establishment, as former operatives like Amrullah Saleh would tell you.

Apart from occasional chatter about the 5th Gen import say from the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence or some commentator here & there usually an ex service personnel about the 5th Gen import what exactly are you hearing or seeing from the powers that be on the issue ? Shouldn't that be clue enough for where things are headed ?
The fact that we're being actively courted by both Russia and America (Trump and Vance, no less) for their 5G wares alone indicates that something is afoot. With news of an imminent sale of J-35 to Pak, I reckon there is greater urgency within the MoD now.

IIRC, we've received classified briefings on the F-35 in the past. Both jets facing off at AI 25 couldn't have been for nothing.

The threshold is high you mean. Our response was attacking the various C&C centres located at their AFBs & striking their NW storage facilities at Kirana Hills . News is now emerging of similar action at Peshawar another storage or C&C centre . Waiting for news to emerge from Chagai Hills in Balochistan. And this was disclosed by the Paxtanis not by our sources leave aside the IAF.
Yes, thanks for the correction. But how could we have known the Shaheen wasn't N armed? Afaik, we don't have the kind of warhead discrimination capability the US does.

The Pakistanis don't differentiate between nuke and conventional missiles either. On principle, this was a fail for our strategic deterrent posture.

Our security establishment still labours under the impression there would be no war with China given there's literally nothing of value over the lands we're fighting to being convinced if things do go south it'd be confined to the LAC. Hence deterrence by denial , literally so . Pun unintended. Not deterrence by capabilities & capacities.
Our nukes are perhaps the only thing China respects. Given the volatile situation, we should resume N testing to allay any doubts in the minds of PLA planners about their efficacy.

In terms of conventional forces, we may realistically never be a threat to them.

They could've potentially sounded out our leadership about a once in a lifetime offer pointing out to the Chinese & whispering they saved the best for us. That's how the ball could've been set rolling.
Possible but they clearly aren't playing favorites anymore. The Russians and Chinese are flying joint bomber patrols and sending joint naval task forces halfway across the world.

There is a 'no holds barred' partnership between them covering commercial airlines (Comac C939?) to moon outposts powered by n-reactors. Russia's veto does hold in good stead for India at the UNSC. But France is equally reliable in that regard.
 
The Pakistanis fear that India is cashing in its (financial aid) chips in Afg to create trouble for them. Reports say that the Afghans have received Konkurs ATGM (of which we have ample stocks) from an unknown intel agency.

That's probably why the Pakistanis got the Chinese to broker a deal with Kabul post haste. Anyhow, as long as there's no agreement on the Durand Line, the Pakistanis will be on the recieving end of Afg wrath.

Can't say about the Taliban leadership but the Afg intel services nurse a special hatred for the Pak establishment, as former operatives like Amrullah Saleh would tell you.
You're confusing the intelligence set up of the previous Afghan regime with the current one. The previous one was non Pashtun heavy . Saleh himself as you know is a Tajik.
The fact that we're being actively courted by both Russia and America (Trump and Vance, no less) for their 5G wares alone indicates that something is afoot. With news of an imminent sale of J-35 to Pak, I reckon there is greater urgency within the MoD now.

May be so. The number of times the MoD / GoI acted reasonably & logically can actually be counted on one's fingers.

Then again I put it to you when do you think these F-35s will be delivered ? How long will we take to raise a squadron or 2 ? How long will we take to formulate tactics & co ordinate with the other arms of the IAF & the rest of our armed forces establishment ?

Let's assume they kick off negotiations this year. MoD / IAF will start out with maximalist positions as will the DoD . Let's assume they take 3 years for negotiations . That's 2028 . Add another year or two for the contract to be signed given 2028 is election year in the US & 2029 is election year in India.

Add 3 years for the first F-35 to be available & say 3 years for 2 squadrons @ 2/ month which makes 2033 & 2036 respectively. If we consider 5 years for the acclimatization tactics strategy etc from the date of the induction of the first F-35 we should be battle ready by 2037-38 .

Now all this is considering these F-35s won't be integrated with the IACCS will be severely down graded models not only from what the USAF operates but also their NATO allies plus kill switches & what have you . Also factor in that these F-35s won't be FOC for we don't know when will it be certified . Is it worth it at the end of the day ?

Repeat the same exercise with the Su-57 with requisite changes & you reach more or less the same timelines for the MKI ization likely with an addition of 3-4 years.
IIRC, we've received classified briefings on the F-35 in the past. Both jets facing off at AI 25 couldn't have been for nothing.
From what I understand we haven't been cleared by Congress for any classified briefing on the F-35 nor have we asked for one.

Sweetie's the in house authority on this . @Innominate
Yes, thanks for the correction. But how could we have known the Shaheen wasn't N armed? Afaik, we don't have the kind of warhead discrimination capability the US does.

Maybe we do maybe we don't @ have the kind of warhead discrimination capability the US does. Maybe we estimated Fauji Foundation won't activate their N option so early in the campaign.

In the event what they fired was a Fatah -II not a Shaheen BM .
The Pakistanis don't differentiate between nuke and conventional missiles either.

On principle, this was a fail for our strategic deterrent posture.

In that case we've been a de facto N weapons state since 1974 . That's hardly deterred Paxtan from supporting separatist movements in Punjab & Kashmir not to mention terrorist activities all over India.
Our nukes are perhaps the only thing China respects. Given the volatile situation, we should resume N testing to allay any doubts in the minds of PLA planners about their efficacy.

Too much at stake for us to unilaterally begin testing . There's a school of thought which says that before China embarks on its Mission Taiwan , they'd start testing nukes to deter US involvement. That should be our cue to test for then practically all the N states will begin flexing their N chops.
In terms of conventional forces, we may realistically never be a threat to them.

India's to China what Paxtan is to India. Just as we lack overwhelming military superiority to impose our will over Paxtan , China lacks overwhelming military superiority over us too .

Moreover China has bigger fish to fry in East Asia. We've no such designs on our neighbours so logically China shouldn't be messing with us otherwise it defeats the purpose behind having a proxy which is what Paxtan is to prosecute China's agenda.
Possible but they clearly aren't playing favorites anymore. The Russians and Chinese are flying joint bomber patrols and sending joint naval task forces halfway across the world.
I was referring to the immediate past . You're referring to the here & now.
There is a 'no holds barred' partnership between them covering commercial airlines (Comac C939?) to moon outposts powered by n-reactors. Russia's veto does hold in good stead for India at the UNSC. But France is equally reliable in that regard.
Both Russia & China are bound together because they face a common foe in the US. Just as once the China threat is over so is the bonhomie between US & India something similar or rather worse is in store for Sino Russia relations for while India & the US has no quarrel Russia is sitting on sizeable Chinese land it seized during the Qing Dynasty rule when China was at its weakest.


With the kind of claims China's making of its neighbours only a fool sitting in the Kremlin won't be wary of China. And Putin or his predecessors & successors aren't fools by any yardstick else they won't be able to rule a particularly challenging country like Russia.
 
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Ghass khayenge lekin atom bomb banayenge, Janab. What a retarded nation🤦‍♂️. They will never let us live in peace. History has proven that whenever they have supposedly got a wonder/superior weapon than ours, they try to attack us. They will again try to attack us, this way or that, post J-35's acquisition.

PS: A kangal country having 5th gen fighters when world's 4th largest air-force will need to wait for at least 10 years before having theirs' is just not acceptable. Time for IAF to wake up and smell the coffee.
Practically speaking, buying off-the-shelf jets won’t immediately solve our capability gaps. The F-35 program already has a massive backlog of orders, and ongoing supply chain issues continue to delay deliveries even for existing customers. We’re not a formal U.S. ally either, so even through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route, the process is anything but quick—it would likely take at least 5–6 years, and possibly 8 years, as seen in the U.S.–Czech Republic deal. Realistically, if we place an order next year, the first F-35s may not arrive until 2032–2034.

Moreover, pilot training, infrastructure adaptation, and tech transfer negotiations would stretch timelines further.

Even if we opt for the sub-optimal Su-57E with local production, the entire process will still take its sweet time, bogged down by the usual complexities of government-to-government negotiations, technology transfer talks, and setting up production lines. Given Russia’s current economic and geopolitical situation, even maintaining a steady supply chain would be a challenge. Also it will probably come with Chinese components.

The only option we have is to focus on fastracking development of ADs, BVRAAMs, Brahmos, CATS, Hypersonic missiles, AMCA etc. Also we need to fastrack Netra mk2. That's all we can do in next 4-5 years.
 
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Practically speaking, buying off-the-shelf jets won’t immediately solve our capability gaps. The F-35 program already has a massive backlog of orders, and ongoing supply chain issues continue to delay deliveries even for existing customers. We’re not a formal U.S. ally either, so even through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route, the process is anything but quick—it would likely take at least 5–6 years, and possibly 8 years, as seen in the U.S.–Czech Republic deal. Realistically, if we place an order next year, the first F-35s may not arrive until 2032–2034.

Moreover, pilot training, infrastructure adaptation, and tech transfer negotiations would stretch timelines further.

Even if we opt for the sub-optimal Su-57E with local production, the entire process will still take its sweet time, bogged down by the usual complexities of government-to-government negotiations, technology transfer talks, and setting up production lines. Given Russia’s current economic and geopolitical situation, even maintaining a steady supply chain would be a challenge. Also it will probably come with Chinese components.

The only option we have is to focus on fastracking development of ADs, BVRAAMs, Brahmos, CATS, Hypersonic missiles, AMCA etc. Also we need to fastrack Netra mk2. That's all we can do in next 4-5 years.

That's most likely scenario imo too.
Very good post

I think in order of priority
Get the 2 remaining s400 batteries delivered asap
Start the super Mki upgrade order the russian R37 Bvr asap.
Order the MRFA Rafale now starting with F4.2 emergency 36 planes
Then post 2030 36/54 Rafale F5 with wing man drones
More AWACS
Tejas mark 2 with gan Aesa and Astra mark 2 and 3
Interim order new long range radar to track fifth generation fighters
Massive induction hypersonic Brahmos in all 3 services

As I see it we need to focus on Amca and getting this into service by 2035
 
Practically speaking, buying off-the-shelf jets won’t immediately solve our capability gaps. The F-35 program already has a massive backlog of orders, and ongoing supply chain issues continue to delay deliveries even for existing customers. We’re not a formal U.S. ally either, so even through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route, the process is anything but quick—it would likely take at least 5–6 years, and possibly 8 years, as seen in the U.S.–Czech Republic deal. Realistically, if we place an order next year, the first F-35s may not arrive until 2032–2034.

Moreover, pilot training, infrastructure adaptation, and tech transfer negotiations would stretch timelines further.

Even if we opt for the sub-optimal Su-57E with local production, the entire process will still take its sweet time, bogged down by the usual complexities of government-to-government negotiations, technology transfer talks, and setting up production lines. Given Russia’s current economic and geopolitical situation, even maintaining a steady supply chain would be a challenge. Also it will probably come with Chinese components.

The only option we have is to focus on fastracking development of ADs, BVRAAMs, Brahmos, CATS, Hypersonic missiles, AMCA etc. Also we need to fastrack Netra mk2. That's all we can do in next 4-5 years.
Best option is asking the US to deliver the F404s, F414s and Apaches quickly to prove their sincerity. Follow that by accelerating our own AMCA and Kaveri 2.0 programs. We already started getting VHF radars, more S400s and accelerated Project Kusha. That will keep the Pakistani fifth gen dream at bay.
 
Practically speaking, buying off-the-shelf jets won’t immediately solve our capability gaps. The F-35 program already has a massive backlog of orders, and ongoing supply chain issues continue to delay deliveries even for existing customers. We’re not a formal U.S. ally either, so even through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route, the process is anything but quick—it would likely take at least 5–6 years, and possibly 8 years, as seen in the U.S.–Czech Republic deal. Realistically, if we place an order next year, the first F-35s may not arrive until 2032–2034.

Moreover, pilot training, infrastructure adaptation, and tech transfer negotiations would stretch timelines further.
F-35 is a strict no-no, for the reasons all of us know.
Even if we opt for the sub-optimal Su-57E with local production, the entire process will still take its sweet time, bogged down by the usual complexities of government-to-government negotiations, technology transfer talks, and setting up production lines. Given Russia’s current economic and geopolitical situation, even maintaining a steady supply chain would be a challenge. Also it will probably come with Chinese components.
Necessity is the mother of invention. We need to remember that we would procure Su-57 to counter J-35 and not F-22. So even a sub-optimal Su-57E shall bring us a psychological and real counter. It having Chinese components is just mere conjecture at this point plus it's not a problem that our industry can't solve.

About timelines? Well, it's not that PAF would get all J-35s within this year. It'll also take them 2-3 or even 4-5 years to have full 40 numbers of the jet. So if we move quickly with Russia utilizing our current structure(Nashik MKI line), there is no reason why we won't have few squadrons of local made Su-57Es in India within this decade! Later we could swtich to Su-57/60MKI from the same plant. Since IAF now is all about network-centric force-structure, mere imports just aren't good enough. Any new jet must have full interoperability with our C4I nodes. Since Russia is the ONLY nation that allows us to modify their jets by our will, so Su-57 is by far the best option to counter PAF's VLO acquisition.
The only option we have is to focus on fastracking development of ADs, BVRAAMs, Brahmos, CATS, Hypersonic missiles, AMCA etc. Also we need to fastrack Netra mk2. That's all we can do in next 4-5 years.
All of these are already in the pipeline whether PAF gets J-35s or not.
 
F-35 is a strict no-no, for the reasons all of us know.

Necessity is the mother of invention. We need to remember that we would procure Su-57 to counter J-35 and not F-22. So even a sub-optimal Su-57E shall bring us a psychological and real counter. It having Chinese components is just mere conjecture at this point plus it's not a problem that our industry can't solve.

About timelines? Well, it's not that PAF would get all J-35s within this year. It'll also take them 2-3 or even 4-5 years to have full 40 numbers of the jet. So if we move quickly with Russia utilizing our current structure(Nashik MKI line), there is no reason why we won't have few squadrons of local made Su-57Es in India within this decade! Later we could swtich to Su-57/60MKI from the same plant. Since IAF now is all about network-centric force-structure, mere imports just aren't good enough. Any new jet must have full interoperability with our C4I nodes. Since Russia is the ONLY nation that allows us to modify their jets by our will, so Su-57 is by far the best option to counter PAF's VLO acquisition.

All of these are already in the pipeline whether PAF gets J-35s or not.
I just can not get myself to believe that su-57 is even half as effective as f-35. I know this forum is full of Russia-philes. Remember, Russians did not let our pilots fly fifa for a reason.

War is not fun. India should buy the best equipment available.

Russians over promised and under delivered on vikramaditya.
 
I just can not get myself to believe that su-57 is even half as effective as f-35. I know this forum is full of Russia-philes. Remember, Russians did not let our pilots fly fifa for a reason.

War is not fun. India should buy the best equipment available.

Russians over promised and under delivered on vikramaditya.
S-400, BrahMos & Su-30MKI, three critical weapons of the current conflict are also Russian. All three have proven to be game-changers even above our European stuff.

Give it some time, Su-57 would also prove itself in Indian colours. Frankly, there is no other option before 2035-40 to counter PAF/PLAAF VLO fighters. Soon GOI & IAF would realize this and then....... or have they already realized this @marich01;)
 
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S-400, BrahMos & Su-30MKI, three critical weapons of the current conflict are also Russian. All three have proven to be game-changers even above our European stuff.

Give it some time, Su-57 would also prove itself in Indian colours. Frankly, there is no other option before 2035-40 to counter PAF/PLAAF VLO fighters. Soon GOI & IAF would realize this and then....... or have they already realized this @marich01;)
Earlier, China did not have quality (& quantity) weapons. They are a super power now with quality weapons.

I am not sure reliance on Russia will serve Bharat's's purpose. Russia itself do not want to get into bad books of China. Now sure how much they will help Bharat. Bharat should develop in-house technology or get technology from west.

BTW- Bharat is in most difficult military situation compared to any other country. Let's not get carried away by what may have worked in the past.
 
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Earlier, China did not have quality (& quantity) weapons. They are a super power now with quality weapons.
So are we! At least in military realms. Our RnD and tech is not that behind China and in multiple domains our desi tech is better as we saw with the failure of Chinese advance IADS in Pakistan whilst our Counter UAS & IADS like D4, Akashteer etc. came off with flying colours.
I am not sure reliance on Russia will serve Bharat's's purpose. Russia itself do not want to get into bad books of China. Now sure how much they will help Bharat. Bharat should develop in-house technology or get technology from west.
Our end goal is self-reliance. Modi gov. has done an astounding work in this regard. Russia is our natural ally because both India and Russia have similar enemies in US & China. The current Sino-Russo alliance isn't natural as China's ultimate goal is to snatch Siberia from Russian control. Rest assured Russians know this too.
BTW- Bharat is in most difficult military situation compared to any other country. Let's not get carried away by what may have worked in the past.
Your future also rests on your past experiences to tell who stood with you and who betrayed you. Our partnership with Russia works well because we can modify their stuff as per our needs more than what any Western nation would ever agree to.

Anyways, GOI & IAF shall do what they deem best for the country. It isn't about what we want but what they know will work. Trust them.
 
The Su-57 should be avoided at all cost. India needs a true fifth-generation fighter jet, and the Su-57 does not meet that standard period.......it will incorporate Chinese components in future and is considered subpar in every sense to the extent that even the Russian military doesn't want to adopt it........The F-35 is the fighter jet that truly belongs in India’s arsenal, and its inclusion is both necessary and inevitable. India cannot afford to maintain inferior capabilities when the best military technology is available and being offered.
 
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All the chatters about j35 would have been unnecessary,if we have finish it of pak last month. Now they are getting j35,hq19, billions of dollars from imf, billions of loan waivers from china etc.

In few months Pak getting j35. The said counters, SU57 is a half baked cake and F35 may not get immediately if we ordered today, the Rafale F4 version will take time and only god know how potent these birds against stealth aircraft. Our available options are 1) waiting for the mercy of PAF so that they don't attack us 2) probably J35 won't be as good as what it claimed to be.

I think, the main concern is KAAN, definitely pak will get this once it ready.

 
All the chatters about j35 would have been unnecessary,if we have finish it of pak last month. Now they are getting j35,hq19, billions of dollars from imf, billions of loan waivers from china etc.

In few months Pak getting j35. The said counters, SU57 is a half baked cake and F35 may not get immediately if we ordered today, the Rafale F4 version will take time and only god know how potent these birds against stealth aircraft. Our available options are 1) waiting for the mercy of PAF so that they don't attack us 2) probably J35 won't be as good as what it claimed to be.

I think, the main concern is KAAN, definitely pak will get this once it ready.
Rafale is a white elephant..... It's insanely costly for the price & has no stealth & can't survive contested airspace period. ...SU 57 is another sub par no stealth alleged 5th generation white elephant which even Russians are avoiding..... Until AMCA arrive, F 35 is the only reliable option.
 
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You're confusing the intelligence set up of the previous Afghan regime with the current one. The previous one was non Pashtun heavy . Saleh himself as you know is a Tajik.
The current Afg govt has openly declared it doesn't recognize the DL. They are miffed about Pak deporting Afghan immigrants from FATA and other disputed regions. Pak has struck terrorist targets in Afg - something it had never done before. So Pashtun or not, Afg is baying for Pak blood.

Then again I put it to you when do you think these F-35s will be delivered ? How long will we take to raise a squadron or 2 ? How long will we take to formulate tactics & co ordinate with the other arms of the IAF & the rest of our armed forces establishment ?

Let's assume they kick off negotiations this year. MoD / IAF will start out with maximalist positions as will the DoD . Let's assume they take 3 years for negotiations . That's 2028 . Add another year or two for the contract to be signed given 2028 is election year in the US & 2029 is election year in India.

Add 3 years for the first F-35 to be available & say 3 years for 2 squadrons @ 2/ month which makes 2033 & 2036 respectively. If we consider 5 years for the acclimatization tactics strategy etc from the date of the induction of the first F-35 we should be battle ready by 2037-38 .

Now all this is considering these F-35s won't be integrated with the IACCS will be severely down graded models not only from what the USAF operates but also their NATO allies plus kill switches & what have you . Also factor in that these F-35s won't be FOC for we don't know when will it be certified . Is it worth it at the end of the day ?
It all depends on the IAFs threat assessment. The USAF could concievably be expected to lease some of its own F-35s to India (being a Quad member with STA-1 status - it's got to count for something) and swap them for new ones in due course. Russia couldn't possibly spare the few it has. The only sticking point would be EUMA/opsec + access control. If they insist on segregating F-35s from our Russian fleet (like the do to the PAF at Jacobabad AFB), it'd be a major headache.

From what I understand we haven't been cleared by Congress for any classified briefing on the F-35 nor have we asked for one.
I'd have to look it up but off the top of my head, it probably was Ajay Shukla who reported this some time back.

In the event what they fired was a Fatah -II not a Shaheen BM
Could be. Not too sure on that.

In that case we've been a de facto N weapons state since 1974 . That's hardly deterred Paxtan from supporting separatist movements in Punjab & Kashmir not to mention terrorist activities all over India.
Because prev govts in their wisdom spun off the 1974 test as a 'peaceful nuclear experiment/explosion' - whatever that means.

Too much at stake for us to unilaterally begin testing . There's a school of thought which says that before China embarks on its Mission Taiwan , they'd start testing nukes to deter US involvement. That should be our cue to test for then practically all the N states will begin flexing their N chops.
We need to put China on notice for it's brazen and overt support to Pak shenanigans. Perhaps a test or 2 might even persuade the NSG to admit us as a full member.

Moreover China has bigger fish to fry in East Asia. We've no such designs on our neighbours so logically China shouldn't be messing with us otherwise it defeats the purpose behind having a proxy which is what Paxtan is to prosecute China's agenda.
Their statments on Arunachal Pradesh and the Indian Ocean (not India's) show they are only biding their time.

With the kind of claims China's making of its neighbours only a fool sitting in the Kremlin won't be wary of China. And Putin or his predecessors & successors aren't fools by any yardstick else they won't be able to rule a particularly challenging country like Russia.
Agree.
 
The Americans under Vance and Trump will sell F35 as part of their plan to reduce trade imbalance our lobby in Washington is strong.

The issue is cost and how we integrate USA technology into internal layered air defense system F35 has to talk to Netra Navic and S400 and hundreds of Mki Tejas Rafale etc

But this can be done if USA understands the threat that is coming our way

I'm.in favour of fully assessing both the new upgraded Su57m1 with flat nozzles And Ai intelligence cockpit too

We need interim solution by 2030 because Amca ain't arriving fully ready until 2040
 
The Americans under Vance and Trump will sell F35 as part of their plan to reduce trade imbalance our lobby in Washington is strong.

The issue is cost and how we integrate USA technology into internal layered air defense system F35 has to talk to Netra Navic and S400 and hundreds of Mki Tejas Rafale etc

But this can be done if USA understands the threat that is coming our way

I'm.in favour of fully assessing both the new upgraded Su57m1 with flat nozzles And Ai intelligence cockpit too

We need interim solution by 2030 because Amca ain't arriving fully ready until 2040
The Su-57 suffers from several inherent design flaws when it comes to stealth capabilities. The manufacturing quality appears subpar, with visible misalignment of metal panels, poorly finished joints, and exposed rivets that compromise its radar signature. The use of radar blockers in the engine intakes seems more like a last-ditch effort to compensate for fundamental design shortcomings. Additionally, the IRST (Infrared Search and Track) system lacks any noticeable shaping for reduced radar cross-section, and the aircraft is equipped with electronics, sensors, and radar systems that are generally considered inferior to contemporary counterparts.

In comparison, China has demonstrated a more refined approach to stealth technology, achieving better integration and shaping in platforms like the J-20. A major issue with the Russian approach is the reluctance to acknowledge these design and performance limitations, let alone take steps toward meaningful improvement. Interestingly, the Su-75 Checkmate prototype exhibits a better stealth-oriented design than the Su-57, indicating that Sukhoi may be learning albeit slowly from past mistakes.
 
The Su-57 should be avoided at all cost. India needs a true fifth-generation fighter jet, and the Su-57 does not meet that standard period.......it will incorporate Chinese components in future and is considered subpar in every sense to the extent that even the Russian military doesn't want to adopt it........The F-35 is the fighter jet that truly belongs in India’s arsenal, and its inclusion is both necessary and inevitable. India cannot afford to maintain inferior capabilities when the best military technology is available and being offered.
I'm not batting for Su-57. But how do you make F35 arrive in just few years? What stopping the negotiations from taking more than 2 years? Looking at the current timeline for delivery F-35 to existing customers, most of them will get it after 5-8 years. If we order next year we will get it in 2032/2034. At that point we should rather focus on AMCA.

Apache delivery hi dekhlo. Even the former IAF chief knows things can always go like this with American imports that is why he is expressing he view that we should focus on AMCA.
 
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The Americans under Vance and Trump will sell F35 as part of their plan to reduce trade imbalance our lobby in Washington is strong.

The issue is cost and how we integrate USA technology into internal layered air defense system F35 has to talk to Netra Navic and S400 and hundreds of Mki Tejas Rafale etc

But this can be done if USA understands the threat that is coming our way

I'm.in favour of fully assessing both the new upgraded Su57m1 with flat nozzles And Ai intelligence cockpit too

We need interim solution by 2030 because Amca ain't arriving fully ready until 2040
Su-57M1 seems to have slightly wider fuselage. I think the sensible option for us is go for Su-57E(directly imported from Russia with source codes of its mission computers for our desi weapons integration) to Su-57MKI(domestic production in Nashik with entire Russian avionics replaced with our own) to Su-60MKI(tandem dual-seat version with slightly wider fuselage and AL-51F1 engines).

This is by far the safest roadmap for us before 2040 until AMCA gets full FOC. I would have also liked to see few F-35A squadrons inducted but looking at how Uncle Sam is behaving towards both India(hostile) and Pak(crypto friendly;) ), thanks but no thanks🤷
 
All the chatters about j35 would have been unnecessary,if we have finish it of pak last month. Now they are getting j35,hq19, billions of dollars from imf, billions of loan waivers from china etc.

In few months Pak getting j35. The said counters, SU57 is a half baked cake and F35 may not get immediately if we ordered today, the Rafale F4 version will take time and only god know how potent these birds against stealth aircraft. Our available options are 1) waiting for the mercy of PAF so that they don't attack us 2) probably J35 won't be as good as what it claimed to be.

I think, the main concern is KAAN, definitely pak will get this once it ready.

The chinos have outflanked Modi. They are likely also to get 1-2 more squadrons of J-10's too. Their JF-17 blk 3 numbers will also increase significantly the PAF capabilities is about to be significantly more potent.

It feels like India chose wrongly who to align themselves militarily. The French don't have advanced weapons systems and platforms and Russians.... well the Russians are the Russians and will never deliver. Hindsight being 2020 if India let say late 90's early 00's pivoted to Yankee centric military alliance India would have a significant advantage over china in military capability. IAF would definitely be flying F-35's right now with squadrons of F-15I (Indian version with AESA) and who knows what other stuff. A lot of youz will roll your eyes but currently is not looking good for India's military capability when it comes to pakees and celestials.
 
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The chinos have outflanked Modi. They are likely also to get 1-2 more squadrons of J-10's too. Their JF-17 blk 3 numbers will also increase significantly the PAF capabilities is about to be significantly more potent.

It feels like India chose wrongly who to align themselves militarily. The French don't have advanced weapons systems and platforms and Russians.... well the Russians are the Russians and will never deliver. Hindsight being 2020 if India let say late 90's early 00's pivoted to Yankee centric military alliance India would have a significant advantage over china in military capability. IAF would definitely be flying F-35's right now with squadrons of F-15I (Indian version with AESA) and who knows what other stuff. A lot of youz will roll your eyes but currently is not looking good for India's military capability when it comes to pakees and celestials.
The issue with the Yanks is that they just want their entire ecosystem when the American ecosystem is halfbaked for the Indian context. India required the f-35's to be compatible with our s-400s and su-30's. The other problem is IAF is filled with spoilt jocks who want to have the best toys. So they will wait for the block 4 to be online, only then will their be any movement by the GoI for the f-35's. The third problem is that Americans won't sell the f-35 until we give them a 4.5 gen deal either the f-15EX or f-16 B70 that's another problem. On top of that to make the f-35's actually effective we need the E-7 wedgetails or the E-3 sentry's.
On top of that we need the su-57's and the rafales and all of them need to seamlessly communicate with each other. So the su-57 and f-35's should be able to communicate and combine their radar datas and create a shared kill chain. That's the issue. To fight a realistic sustained fight we need
Su-30mki's
Su-57
F-35
F-15EX
Rafale
Tejas
in significant numbers uptill 2030.
The reality is India needs atleast a 100 billion dollar budget just to replenish and restructure it's airforce to face a 2.5 front total war scenario.
 
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