Nope. It has to be enhanced with EW. It's been a few years since we have discussed this on this very forum.
ACM Dhanoa also pointed out the same thing in 2018.
Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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Nope. It has to be enhanced with EW. It's been a few years since we have discussed this on this very forum.
ACM Dhanoa also pointed out the same thing in 2018.
PLAN is still a decade and a half away from operating on their own in the IOR during wartime. All they can do right now is hide in the territorial waters of their host country.
As for Pakistan's military purchases, that's a higher priority than development 'cause they will always get external funding no matter what.
How will they be used to contain India then?
Yes.
The F-16s and Chinese jets cannot speak to each other, it's not a problem for Chinese and European jets.
He has valid points. The Pakistanis are liars typically. But the J-10C deliveries came out of the blue, although a purchase was expected, so it's better to err on the side of caution.
The J-31 is likely to have a shorter timeframe for development versus the J-35 though. And considering it's been 12 years since its first flown, it should normally be in production right about now.
Sometimes the Chinese also tend to release news much later into the development cycle of certain technologies.
Chinese presence in Tibet is still quite limited. There are very few operational bases and very few jets capable of operating from the plateau. Probably 'cause they are prioritizing Taiwan over India. The Ukraine war has changed things for them quite a bit.
Fighting India is like a mud-fighting contest and fighting Taiwan is a button-mashing contest. They probably think they have a better chance at the latter.
You are repeatedly failing to get the point.
Just because pakistan wants something, doesn't mean they will be able to get it.
Most of their F16s are US funded, and JF17 and J10C were brought on soft loans.
Chinese largesse has a limit. Pakistan doesn't have the economy to buy or operate a 5th gen fighter.
They have scaled down their planned JF17 orders and all but cancelled the Azm program.
The Chinese also intend to use Yunnan as a base for their operations against India both in the A&N Island chain ( hence the Rafale M acquisition on priority ) & over Myanmar & BD to target our bases in the NE & E India. It's not just going to be Tibet & Xinjiang.
Are the IAF & our security managers aware of It ? Of course they are . Are they doing anything about it ? Of course not . Or as little as they can , at least for mainland India.
The IN has been much more proactive in this regard & gone in for the Rafales while the IAF & MoD are busy scratching their balls sniffing their fingers & readying the MRFA tender . Since 2016.
Too bad it didn't come about in 2022 too the golden year RST predicted it would.
I feel bad for RST coz the IAF is beyond redemption at this point with their acquisition & modernisation / upgradation plans going nowhere or being interminably delayed or some other misbegotten reason.
Are the IAF & our security managers aware of It ? Of course they are . Are they doing anything about it ? Of course not . Or as little as they can , at least for mainland India.
The IN has been much more proactive in this regard & gone in for the Rafales while the IAF & MoD are busy scratching their balls sniffing their fingers & readying the MRFA tender . Since 2016.
Too bad it didn't come about in 2022 too the golden year RST predicted it would.
I feel bad for RST coz the IAF is beyond redemption at this point with their acquisition & modernisation / upgradation plans going nowhere or being interminably delayed or some other misbegotten reason.
There is also something odd with current chief. He got bigger ambitions.
You cannot deny the fact of improvement in infrastructure and increase in deployments in Tibet. That itself takes away valuable resources from the western front. All the while, our squadron numbers are dropping.
Your statements "We have to deal with the J-20 anyway, so the J-31 is no big deal" and "We don't want more Rafales for now; it's better to wait for the F5 Rafales" are just copium confronted with reality.
Yes. But we have to see to what extent. We need to get through the Sept elections first. Every time they get some money and goodies, they wanna start something.
Our numbers will improve from here on.
That's 'cause the Chinese are not ready yet. And once they get ready, any knee-jerk purchases we make today will not work against them when it becomes necessary.
And current gen jets have started catching up to next gen jets due to sensor fusion and networking. So avionics has become more important than the airframe for now.
the thing with pakistan is that they dont pay the bill, with americans US taxpayers chip the bill along with gulfies, with china just gulfies pay it up, VT4 purchase was financed by Saudi Arabia according to a pakistani guy with good sources on tank and armor related stuff. So, may be qataris are footing the bill for this time.
If Pakistan with its begging bowls and sh*t economy can afford one of largest militaries and an active Nuclear force with ballistic missiles then they will afford J-31 too. Only a matter of time. Feel free to disagree!
PAF is like kid belongs to child loving parent,who provides better education facilities etc. where IAF is an offspring of miser feudal lord who comes to school with rice dal tiffin box who will have permission to study only up to 10th standard from his parent.
If this is an export-only version, I'd want the PAF to go ahead and induct the J-31 asap. This will do two things imo.
1. It will tie down their funds in ironing out maintenance and performance issues. Hopefully, that wiil keep them away from higher quality Turkish alternatives.
Maybe even piss off the Americans enough to sanction them or place restrictions on flying around Pakistani F16s.
2. It will give the MoD a kick on the butt and force it approve MRFA and/or clear a limited purchase of the Su-57 in the short term.
1. It will tie down their funds in ironing out maintenance and performance issues. Hopefully, that wiil keep them away from higher quality Turkish alternatives.
Maybe even piss off the Americans enough to sanction them or place restrictions on flying around Pakistani F16s.
2. It will give the MoD a kick on the butt and force it approve MRFA and/or clear a limited purchase of the Su-57 in the short term.
The Kaan is still pretty far out when it comes to introduction to the Turkish air forces, let alone export. I would expect Pakistan to start acquiring stealthy drones from Turkey before an actual jet.
The J-10C purchases did nothing, neither did their induction of Chinese SAM and radar systems. I don't think that the Americans will care if another Chinese platform is stationed by the F-16s.
I used to have such hopes but over the years I've learned to moderate my expectations of India's defense bureaucracy - especially when it comes to procurement or even just future planning.
Another way to look at it would be that the MoD already knows they are going against an overwhelming amount of J-20s & J-16s and don't really seem to have any urgency. If China and Pakistan coordinate an attack what difference would a squadron or two of J-31s really make?
There's finally some movement on finalizing production partners for the AMCA. However, a J-31 in Pakistani colours anytime this decade will send our establishment into a meltdown.
In the 1980s (84?), the Pakistanis got the F-16 and the IAF scrambled to get the MiG-29A (which was just entering service with the Soviets) and the M2000 a few years later. However, to be fair to the IAF, things weren't quite going their way. Their first choice was the SAAB Viggen, predecessor of today's Gripen. The deal fell through because the engine was American. So we had to buy whatever was available.
The point is the IAF will want an immediate solution, if faced with J31s on the Western front, which would likely open the door for the Su57.
The fact that the Pakistanis bought the J-10C indicates that no more F-16s were/are forthcoming. India may have leaned on the US to not sell them any new ones. There were some reports recently that the US vetoed the sale of ex-Turkish ac to the PAF, after the former got their new Block 70/72s .
Given how sensitive we are, big-ticket sales to Pak will likely be limited, more so if Trump comes to power.
Many of our air chiefs and generals, including the late CDS Rawat, have stated on record that India faces a collusive threat on both borders. The Modi govt imo is banking on diplomacy, economic levers and strategic signalling (Agni5, SSBN) to save our skin in the short to medium term.
More than anything else, its our bloated bureaucracy that's the millstone around our neck, imo. The least they could do imo is set up a non lapsable fund for capital procurement so the armed forces wouldn't have to return leftovers from their yearly allocations. This was being talked about but hasn't been implemented yet.
Pending deep structural reforms, we'll be forced to repeat what Gen. Ved Malik said during Kargil in 1999- "We will fight with what we have". Only this time, it won't be because we lacked the capacity to produce what we needed.
Why would PAF buy small batch of J10 before moving onto J31.
J31 is only at prototype stage, who ll allow pilots to train on Prototype stage.
Pak pilots don't have stealth fighter experience to give in their inputs over what Chinese can do.
Maybe they are there for their customizations.
Are they investing in J31 like Jf 17 ?
Assuming 4-5 years before PAF get their J31,
India s first option will be Amca.
Depends on US F414 deal.
J31 is only at prototype stage, who ll allow pilots to train on Prototype stage.
Pak pilots don't have stealth fighter experience to give in their inputs over what Chinese can do.
Maybe they are there for their customizations.
Are they investing in J31 like Jf 17 ?
Assuming 4-5 years before PAF get their J31,
India s first option will be Amca.
Depends on US F414 deal.