Russian camo is suitable for their skies. We use Tipnis grey.
The T-50 prototypes flown outside Russia are all non-stealth versions from the first stage. They haven't received the full treatment.
PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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Russian camo is suitable for their skies. We use Tipnis grey.
The T-50 prototypes flown outside Russia are all non-stealth versions from the first stage. They haven't received the full treatment.
ADA is already running AMCA, so that's fine. I'm talking about after. I want them to continue developing India's aerospace industry from scratch instead of having to depend on a foreign R&D house.
I'm sure the partner that gets Rafale will have a greater chance than anyone else for SCAF. But I am not worried about that, my only concern is if ADA is roped in for SCAF, then they will end up relying on the French tech stack rather than create a fully Indian tech stack for future fighters. I don't want that to happen.
When it comes to engines, we are developing a French stack and an Indian stack via AMCA engine and Kaveri, so we have that going on.
If we end up relying on a foreign tech stack then the foreign OEM will permanently stay ahead and we will only chase after them. This is why Elon Musk also offers all his IP as open source, so everybody ends up on Tesla's tech stack. Any company that fails to develop their own tech stack will always chase after Tesla 'cause they will create the standards for the future.
That's why I'm not a fan of the JV with ADA.
And I'm not a fan of the JV overall too, 'cause we will overspend and get very little in return. No matter what, the French are not gonna give their avionics tech, and the Indian private partner will not have the expertise to contribute to the airframe. So what's left? Nothing. It will just be a repeat of FGFA. IAF will see the bill, look at the workshare for the private company and then start having second thoughts while DRDO starts attacking the program for being too expensive when they can develop all of it themselves and recommending a stopgap import instead.
By the way, I figured it out. Both are max burner, but both are at different standards.
The AL-31F thrust diagram is for uninstalled thrust. It's tested on a test bench with no losses, hence full power of 123 kN.
The F110 thrust diagram is for installed thrust where the engine is powering an aircraft. The loss comes from inlets and exhaust, bleed air for cooling, electricity generation, and aircraft and engine drag. So uninstalled thrust is 131 kN and installed thrust is 99.7 kN. The remaining 31 kN is all due to losses at sea level.
Uninstalled thrust is that measured on a test stand under carefully controlled conditions, with no cowlings, covers, fins, flaps, etc. attached.
Installed thrust is that measured with the propulsion unit attached to the vehicle which means any interference with its operation caused by the shape of the cowling, the presence of a wing nearby, the profile of the air intake scoop and the length of the inlet ducting, etc. are represented. Installed thrust is always less than uninstalled thrust because of the losses caused by that interference.
Installed thrust = uninstalled thrust – installation effects– drag contribution assigned to the propulsive system
So the entire time you have been comparing two entirely different engine states. On the F100 diagram I posted, the Y axis says "installed thrust."
The thrust curves rise sharply after mach 0 because of ram effect. That's why the increase in thrust is far higher as speed increases.
So this solved your conundrum.
40 single-seat version "off-the -shelf" and 100 2-seat version locally manufactured at HAL Nashik plant. We are getting close @Speedster1, @Lolwa, @Sathya,@batman,@marich01.
Will we get the initial 40 birds ahead of Rafale MRCA or later ?
Russians have promised deliveries to begin exactly one year after the deal is signed. So let's see.
I am guessing this 40 will prevent PAF J35 to get back at us for Op sindhoor..
If they are really going to buy this, at least buy 40 Dual & 100 single.
RAM/RAS probably makes up only about 30% of Su-57s LO characteristics with the rest provided by the airframe. If Western intel manages to map the (RCS hotspots) untreated airframe, wouldn't the effectiveness of any applied stealth treatments/coatings be reduced to that extent?
Sure, definitive versions like Su-57M will have better rear aspect stealth, but surely Western intel will have a benchmark RCS to work with now.
Why this mix instead of all dual? I thought the Russians have the dual variant ready and thats what the IAF prefers?
If it were upon IAF, entire 140 would be dual-seat version(Su-60MKI). This is how IAF prefers its heavyweight jets to be.
Ready? C'mon dude, Su-57D just made its first flight few days ago. MKIsing it with our own AESA radar, IRST, Mission Computers etc., will take even more time.
At the moment, only version of Su-57 that is available to us as a "stop gap" and as a counter to J-35AE is Su-57S' export varaint termed Su-57E. Our version could be named Su-57I.
Oh I'm not talking about Su60MKI - that development could go in parallel until the local Indian production starts delivering it much further out.
I just meant that with the expected dragging of feet that is typical in these procurements, the stopgap is still going to be years away so might as well force the Ruskis to deliver a Su-57DE variant (all OEM) from the get go to avoid maintaining a single seater variant that the IAF doesn't want anyway... at least these could later be upgraded to MKI+ standards during the MLU.
Basically you need engine technology, rest can be taken care of. Without getting confused there are two things.
1. India needs a stealth fighter immediately, the events at Hormuz with Indian vessels is a signalling
2. The domestic R&D runs parallel, no compromise on that
There are no economic constraints. By halting Ujjawala, Ladli beti, and other Rewadis for 6 months will get you enough funds for both. More over India is now an exporter too unlike before.
So both can be achieved.
No, the imperfections in the airframe and the older engines will make it all useless.
I'm hoping to see both the engine deals signed this year.
Where you got this info ? You say like u are also sitting on the negotiation table, nothing rude, just wanna know, why and how this much confidence ?
And if you have insider info, then may you tell, are we planning(or even discussing) to have seperate JV for engine for 6th gen ?
Like the french one where india will invest lots of money and get know how, know why and full ip rights .