Pahalgam terror attack: 26 killed
- Thread starter Tatvamasi
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The Pakistanis are playing on the fact that the two variants look exactly the same. The timing says it all. Psy Ops 101.
First it was the Soviets, now its the Chinese. It's a typical ploy the American DoD uses to get more funds out of Congress. The AIM-120D3s range is still classified but you can be certain it's pretty close to PL-15.
In 2019, the IAF held up pretty well against the AIM-120C5 which in itself is a formidable weapon. They would have wargamed tactics against the PL-15 too. In any case, the Pakistanis cannot afford to spray PL-15s like the AMRAAMs they got for free from Uncle Sam.
Pak army Generals after Getting thrashed by Indian Army once the war is over...
Meteor doesn't have to be our only BVR play against PL-15. If push comes to shove, the IAF can quietly pack the Astra Mk2 onto its ac.
After all, it's dual-pulse motor, seeker and airframe are pretty much the same as VLSRSAM which has been through rigorous testing so far. Captive tests for the Mk2 have already been completed. This could be a trial by fire for the Astra Mk2.
After all, it's dual-pulse motor, seeker and airframe are pretty much the same as VLSRSAM which has been through rigorous testing so far. Captive tests for the Mk2 have already been completed. This could be a trial by fire for the Astra Mk2.
Don't worry about water man...Less water means easier to cross?
Its on the way... have your fill!
India has best BVR....
Even china can not intercept it.
We seem to have closed off the Chenab:
And released the small dam on Jhelum:
And released the small dam on Jhelum:
Main
Main issue is what does IAF do to counter PL15’s range + dual pulse motor. Shaking this off will be harder than AMRAAMs.
Rafale with Meteor is the only thing that will have a fair game with PL15. The other will be Astra MK-2. How many do we have which we can use?
Main issue is what does IAF do to counter PL15’s range + dual pulse motor. Shaking this off will be harder than AMRAAMs.
Rafale with Meteor is the only thing that will have a fair game with PL15. The other will be Astra MK-2. How many do we have which we can use?
Relax. They are showing that missile on JF-17s. Trouble is the tracking range of their radars. That limits the utility of their missile.
I think she's referring to the PL-15E. Although advertised for 145 km, it should easily manage 200 km at high altitude. The real one would be well above 250 km, closer to 300 km, slightly more than Meteor. AIM-260 has been designed for greater than 300 km. Anyway, such news sites are not professional enough for such data.
But remember, all these ranges are meant for a non-maneuvering target, meaning the target has no idea it is under attack and continues to maintain a head-on flight profile at a lower altitude relative to the adversary. Real life range to achieve a kill against maneuvering targets are all less than 100 km, some as low as 30 or 40 km, even 20 km. That's why the F-22 gets to within 50 km of a target before firing even when using a 180 km AMRAAM.
Hence the importance of NEZ. Based on estimates, AIM-120A/B has an NEZ of around 20 km against a head-on maneuvering target using countermeasures when fired in optimum conditions, which puts the Meteor's at 60 km. Due to its export status, the PL-15E has a lower NEZ of around 50 km vs the original version, 70 km. Meteor's still a better killer due to superior overall performance.
An estimated 30 km for Astra Mk1 is not competitive with the PL-15E's 50 km, but is better than AIM-120C5 (25 km) and SD-10 (20 km). Furthermore, this is a "secret," but when it comes to NEZ, the RVV-SD is superior to the Astra Mk1, at 35-40 km, similar/better than AIM-120D. The Russians have outdone themselves by focusing their energies on working on greater performance at real kill ranges, rather than absolute range, similar to the Israelis with the I-Derby ER (45 km). So it could be somewhat competitive with the PL-15E, although still a bit inferior. Both RVV-SD (110 km) and I-Derby ER (150+ km) have lower top ranges, but higher NEZ relative to their ranges. It has a lot to do with energy management, 'cause they have focused more on agility with longer burns at slower speed. Astra Mk1's (110 km) focused more on long range performance with a shorter burn for higher burnout speed.
Anyway all these ranges are at their most optimum flight profiles and are estimates, not what people come across normally. So around 20 km to 60/70 km is what we are actually dealing with.
With both LCA and MKI integrated with I-Derby ER, we should assume we most definitely have some. And with 300 RVV-SDs, we have a somewhat competitve missile at shorter ranges. J-10s have a slight advantage if they do not want to fight due to their slightly longer range that can push the MKI into a defensive position, but things become equal when they want to kill the MKI. Rafale maintains all sorts of superiority over the J-10, both long range and short range 'cause of MICA.
And there's no such thing as an inferior (RVV-SD, AIM-120C, MICA, Astra Mk1 etc) or superior missile (PL-15, Astra Mk2, Meteor, AIM-260 etc). Only the way they are used is different. Long range missiles achieve their higher NEZ in lofted profiles when fired at high speed and high altitude, whereas single mode or lighter dual-pulse missiles are typically used in direct fire or a hybrid mode for even lower NEZ for a faster time to target. You'd fire your long range missiles first and then the medium range ones next. So both types are necessary. That's why you need high performance ASFs for long range BVR roles.
Since we will soon be at war, let's see how things work out.
There are some rumors that JF-17 is equipped with PL-15E, and China has just delivered some original PL-15s. Unfortunately for them, JF-17 will have to use external sensors to effectively use the missile at long range which could put those assets at risk. But those original PL-15s can be a pretty deadly threat in the hands of the J-10s.
My only disappointment is we do not have an LCA Mk1A squadron ready. We have 5 available, so let's hope HAL at least makes them available.
My only disappointment is we do not have an LCA Mk1A squadron ready. We have 5 available, so let's hope HAL at least makes them available.
They should be delivered in a few days, April end is approaching. Best of all, they will come with the capability to fire Astra mk1s state out of the box. The 7th one made its first flight a few days ago.
Expect Pak to go after our Rafales / SU-30 MKIs with those J-10s + PL15s. Also, this will make life of our AWACs quite difficult.
Only thing to see is if PAF actually comes close enough to fire those from an acceptable engagement range so as to score some kills or if they lob those from Karachi in the hope of hitting something
As far as I know based on what I have read, they don’t have this capability. But if someone knows something I don’t, please correct me.
That assumes a 90-100% wipeout of heavy weapons. It's possible he was referring to a much smaller number, maybe 70%, possible in a week or two of fighting rather than a long war like Ukraine. Rebuilding 70% will take decades, although at the time I had argued that military aid from China can reduce that to mere years, depending on Chinese intentions.
Even akash-ng can be fast tracked to be fired from aircrafts, if situation demands
Nope! Net centric warfare is yet to be seen in Pakistan. Besides, Erieye working with PL-15? in this less time? Not gonna happen.
Do remember, the entire PL-15 narrative is just some random twitter handle. I can make the same pictures to have Meteor missiles. You want that?
It good to know about your recent times in pakistan, I also know what you do in UK, you being a member of pakistani gang which targets underage girls. Your unity will only work while targeting underage girls, but it will not in war. War are for Brave and Strong People. Not for you Pakistanis.
They have 20 J-10s and 20+ more JF-17s with AESA radars out of the 50 ordered. I'm not sure that's enough, even if they had all 50.
Personally I believe the Rafales and M2000s will take them all out with minimal losses.
Only thing to see is if PAF actually comes close enough to fire those from an acceptable engagement range so as to score some kills or if they lob those from Karachi in the hope of hitting something
As far as I know based on what I have read, they don’t have this capability. But if someone knows something I don’t, please correct me.
It's unclear if Erieye has been integrated with the missile. Not sure if Saab would allow that, but I find it unlikely. So their only choice is to use them from lower ranges.
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