Pahalgam terror attack: 26 killed

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The military has been ready for years now. PA is significantly outclassed and PAF even more so.

In 2019 the IA had enough ammo for a one-front war, whereas now they have enough for both fronts. IAF was still in the 3rd/4th gen era, and now in the 5th gen. Both now have the most modern communications and networking technologies. EW and cyberwarfare capabilities have gone through the roof. The biggest change was seen in the IAF with the inductions of Rafale, S-400, and MRSAM. Plus pretty much everything old we have has been upgraded. We have even deployed soft and hard-kill CUAS. And, unlike Pakistan, we are flush with money.

I wish we had brainstorming in past amongst our think tank and would have planned something for this sort of Scenario. Sometime doing something is easier to conceiving proper response which should be appropriate.
 
India has about 5000 artillery pieces not 10k as you say.
Pakistan has about 3000 .
The difference in numbers is not that big.
In fact Pakistan has more of you factor in the size of both countries, India being 3 times bigger, only has less than twice as much artillery pieces.

You are even counting your WW2 era 25-pounders. And 2/3rd of your guns are from the Vietnam era which have not been upgraded. Only the SH-15 is modern.
 
Pinaca and other artillery rockets may see action from Indian side.
Likewise Nasr , Fateh , A 100 may see action from Pakistani side.
That is if this time round India goes for ground assault instead of Air Force attack, like last time.

Yeah. But once again, not the same numbers. Even ammo.

Nasr's and A-100's range does not threaten critical infra. Fatah-1 is pretty new, so not enough numbers. Fatah-2 is still under trials.

The real threats are Ra'ad and Babur, but pretty much all of our air defense today can deal with these threats.

You haven't considered the introduction of ALBMs in the IAF or the fact that our air defense can be used against your BMs.
 
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It can only be said that Pakistan and India both have a large number of old artillery pieces, but not many of them are usable.

Incorrect. Due to lack of modernization since the 80s, we have upgraded all of what we already have so all are usable.
 
@Hydra and all those who think we can't take on Pak successfully(or China) should read @Hellfire 's tweet posted above by @randomradio. I've been myself saying this for long.

A BrahMos barrage is good enough to bring Pak to its knees. Destroying their key infra along with training camps should be our no. one priority. Hit them where it would hurt them the most.

@randomradio

MKI with Derby-ER could have caused heavy casualty to PAF formation during Swift Retreat. Still in 2024 the same scenario is repeating and we would be damned if IAF didn't covertly integrate Derby-ER with MKI. Thankfully for us we've 36 Rafales/S-400 with Meteor/40N6, otherwise PAF J-10CE with PL-15 could've caused serious problem for us.

I was listening to a military expert on TV. He was saying that India's ground attack power has increased by 8 times since 2019 short conflict. Lots of standoff weapons, glide bombs, runway denial bombs have come in. Rafale has bring in lots of new capabilities like force intrusion.
 
Incorrect. Due to lack of modernization since the 80s, we have upgraded all of what we already have so all are usable.

We have enough artilleries to handle Pakistan. Even MBRL like grad were upgraded for higher range and accuracy. We have decent numbers of Pinaka.
 
I wish we had brainstorming in past amongst our think tank and would have planned something for this sort of Scenario. Sometime doing something is easier to conceiving proper response which should be appropriate.

There's a lot of things that we should have done instead of trying to save money.

We canceled 48 Mi-17s, 60 Ka-226T, 3 mobile SPYDER regiments, and 400 ATHOS for the IA. All of these would have been available today.

In terms of policy, we are already prepared for it. What's happening now is well within the govt's expectations.

Pahalgam attack happened because some local authorities decided to open up the area on the 20th without informing the central govt, that's why there was no security.
 
I was listening to a military expert on TV. He was saying that India's ground attack power has increased by 8 times since 2019 short conflict. Lots of standoff weapons, glide bombs, runway denial bombs have come in. Rafale has bring in lots of new capabilities like force intrusion.

That's still an underestimation. We have enough to pound away for many months at high intensity. It's all in preparation for a long war. That's where all our money went into since 2022, instead of buying 36 more Rafales.
 
Pinaca and other artillery rockets may see action from Indian side.
Likewise Nasr , Fateh , A 100 may see action from Pakistani side.
That is if this time round India goes for ground assault instead of Air Force attack, like last time.
How fast Pakistan OFB can produce rockets, for pinaka it's 15 days, they can reduce even more the production time, any idea?
 
Let's see, Astra Mk1's more than plugged the gap between the MKI and F-16. Astra Mk2 is ready, we do not know how many prototypes could be available for use. Even if we haven't taken deliveries of piecemeal numbers of I-Derby ER and we have definitely dropped it for our bulk requirement, we could still ask Israel to send some over before we take action. We likely have some already.

And it could be possible that the S-400 is integrated with the MKI, allowing the targeting of AWACS from long range using the 40N6.

Against Pakistani F16, Tejas Mk1 and Rafale shall be more effective than MKI as F 16 uses AIMS which is batter than any missile in Indian inventory except Meteor. However, because of poor relative performance of Radar, Tejas MK1 and rafale can detect and shoot F-16 few K.M. Before F 16 can detect Tejas or Rafale. Rafale is a class apart. However, Tejas because of lower RCS can be a very good plane with AESA and 100+ K.M. Range BVR with first shoot capability.
 
Also talking to friends and family in Pakistan, not much attention is being given on public level to this fiasco.
Most Pakistanis are watching PSL cricket and vlogs about Imran Khan.
However judging from social media, Indian public seems to be very emotional and wants their government to attack Pakistan.
That's because Pakistan has normalised terrorist attacks, the army itself doesn't care, any sane nation would have done the same,
 
We canceled 48 Mi-17s, 60 Ka-226T, 3 mobile SPYDER regiments, and 400 ATHOS for the IA. All of these would have been available today.

MI 17 were outdated and hence was not a chopper of Today.
KA 26 was sacrificed for LUH and high production cost in India.
I do not know what advantage will spider bring over Akash and QR SAM?
ATHOS was not accepted as it has some issue. I heard a retired general saying that. He stated that he cannot disclose that.
 
Hmmm. Water as a weapon.
Cricket as a weapon. Plenty of weird weapons.
It's an interesting idea. But this isn't new either.
India has been blocking rivers from Pakistan for quite a few decades.
Only this time they announced it.
Judging by the fact that not much concern was shown by Pakistani military or political leadership about this matter. It may not be as much of an effective weapon as Indians may think.
Then again I don't trust the current.
Complicated situation I must say.

India has managed to block only excess water going to Pakistan and not the share of Pakistani water till date. Before last few years, it was not even possible to block Pakistani water because of technical challenges.
 
Pinaca and other artillery rockets may see action from Indian side.
Likewise Nasr , Fateh , A 100 may see action from Pakistani side.
That is if this time round India goes for ground assault instead of Air Force attack, like last time.

It depends on what India wants to achieve. If India wants to target terrorist camps deep inside, They will have to do Air strike. If India wants to strike terrorist camps 80-90 K.M. Inside, they will use air strike with stand off weapons, between 60 to 80 k.m, Guided Pinaka salvo, less than 60 k.m. Pinaka MkII, less than 40 k.m. Other Artillery.
 
I was listening to a military expert on TV. He was saying that India's ground attack power has increased by 8 times since 2019 short conflict. Lots of standoff weapons, glide bombs, runway denial bombs have come in. Rafale has bring in lots of new capabilities like force intrusion.
While lot of focus is on Rafale and rightly so because of Scalp & Hammer, as far as air to ground goes, it's the MKI which is our real ace. Post 2019, IAF has integrated ROCKS & Rampage with it and that'll do the real pounding. Combine that with SAAW/Gaurav/NGARM and its air to surface capabilities have increased multiple times, all of which bodes quite well for us at the moment.

As far air-to-air is concerned, PAF J-10CE with PL-15E is more capable than all our jets sans Rafale + Meteor combo. We need to quickly order Derby ER and R-37M for our MKI fleet. Integration won't take too much time and then MKI gets an edge over J-10CE as well.
 
Against Pakistani F16, Tejas Mk1 and Rafale shall be more effective than MKI as F 16 uses AIMS which is batter than any missile in Indian inventory except Meteor. However, because of poor relative performance of Radar, Tejas MK1 and rafale can detect and shoot F-16 few K.M. Before F 16 can detect Tejas or Rafale. Rafale is a class apart. However, Tejas because of lower RCS can be a very good plane with AESA and 100+ K.M. Range BVR with first shoot capability.
F-16s, no problem for MKI post Astra integration. And once again, low RCS is just part of air-combat not be all end all. It's your RCS vs your radar power combo against enemy jet's RCS/Radar combo. BARS still is a beast for most PAF jets and would detect them before they detect MKI(though with AWACS this point is moot), problem was less range of R-77. That's now solved with Astra MK1 and R-77-1. However for MKI, in order to take on J-10CE, it needs Astra2 or Derby ER or R-37M.
 
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