Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan

Herciv said:
What I mean Is that MKI or rafale have to be able to carry very simple munitions very close to the combat line or from time to time deeply in the enemy theater.
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Glide bombs exist.
Gaurav, saaw etc.
Cheap, mass producable.
Herciv said:
Once again problem is not to be cheap or not. Problem is how many every day : to give solutions to the IAF every day during a long high intensity war. To be able to make enough munitions. 300 bhramos a year are only one brahmos a day. How can you help every day your trooper without weapon for that. The same for Bhramos or scalp or meteor or mica or rudram.
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Combined production of brahmos + rudram 2+ rudram 3 will cross 1500+ yearly within 1 year of full scale war.

Along with many other cheaper weapons, lime Saaw, Gaurav glide bombs.
We are also working on cheaper stealthy cruise missile.
And its not like su30mki is the only thing we have to strike targets.
If it's risky for su30, we have other ways.
 
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babablacksheep said:
Glide bombs exist.
Gaurav, saaw etc.
Cheap, mass producable.

Combined production of brahmos + rudram 2+ rudram 3 will cross 1500+ yearly within 1 year of full scale war.

Along with many other cheaper weapons, lime Saaw, Gaurav glide bombs.
We are also working on cheaper stealthy cruise missile.
And its not like su30mki is the only thing we have to strike targets.
If it's risky for su30, we have other ways.
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I'm OK with that.
But do you think that brahmos + rudram 2+ rudram 3 + rudram 4 + spice + scalp will be enough for a full scale war with China and Pakistan ? problem is not how good and cheap are these munition but how many missions you can make every day with them.

If you can only use low tech munition, since you have no more stock with hightech muniitions, you have to be able to carry them very close from the combat line.
 
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Herciv said:
I'm OK with that.
But do you think that brahmos + rudram 2+ rudram 3 + rudram 4 + spice + scalp will be enough for a full scale war with China and Pakistan ? problem is not how good and cheap are these munition but how many missions you can make a day with them.

If you can only use low tech munition you have to be able to carry them very close from the combat line.
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That problem has a solution, it's called "bigger economy".
Until then, fight with what you have.

We ain't matching china in density of attacks of high end muntions in case of a full scale war.
 
babablacksheep said:
That problem has a solution, it's called "bigger economy".
Until then, fight with what you have.

We ain't matching china in density of attacks of high end muntions in case of a full scale war.
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The main mission for IAF is to be ready for such a war and you don't need a big economy to make thousands of low tech bombs. But you need fighters able to deliver these bombs very close to the front line without taking to much risk.
 
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Herciv said:
You can't go at such a big war with only one solutions.
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AMCA + Rafale + CATS + Ghatak are not really one solution. All of those will be ready most likely in next 6-12 years. With those it's possible to get upclose to enemy line. And this question is never ending, because you can keep saying not enough options, need more. While I would always prefer more options, time & resources are limited. And if war happens we have to fight with whatever we have.
 
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redpanda said:
AMCA + Rafale + CATS + Ghatak are not really one solution. All of those will be ready most likely in next 6-12 years. With those it's possible to get upclose to enemy line. And this question is never ending, because you can keep saying not enough options, need more. While I would always prefer more options, time & resources are limited. And if war happens we have to fight with whatever we have.
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At best a tactical planer have to be able to change its tactics at every fight so that he is totally unpredictable. To use several solution together as yoy say is a very good way to achived that. AN other way is to use versatile solutions. Of course if you can used several versatile solutions together so that you can vary your effect and make fool of your enemy you are the king of the world.
 
Herciv said:
At best a tactical planer have to be able to change its tactics at every fight so that he is totally unpredictable. To use several solution together as yoy say is a very good way to achived that. AN other way is to use versatile solutions. Of course if you can used several versatile solutions together so that you can vary your effect and make fool of your enemy you are the king of the world.
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Bc fekna band karde, philosophy jhaar ra bekaar ki.

Brahmos flies differently.
Rudram 2 will fly differently from brahmos.
The way to intercept both will be different.
Same case for rudram 3, rudram1, glide bombs, rocket, guided rockets, artillary shells, guided shells, extended range shells, srbms like prithvi series, pralay, MRBMs like Agni 1,2, subsonic terrain hugging cruise missiles, loitering drones, long range drones.
Delivery mechanism of will be from air and land using various different ways.

The "unpredictability" "surprise" is common aspects in military planning.
 
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babablacksheep said:
Brahmos flies differently.
Rudram 2 will fly differently from brahmos.
The way to intercept both will be different.
Same case for rudram 3, rudram1, glide bombs, rocket, guided rockets, artillary shells, guided shells, extended range shells, srbms like prithvi series, pralay, MRBMs like Agni 1,2, subsonic terrain hugging cruise missiles, loitering drones, long range drones.
Delivery mechanism of will be from air and land using various different ways.
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As already said bhramos and rudram and scalp are not every day munitions.
Your unpredictability has also to be able with low tech bombs.
 
At this point the whole discussion is just going around in a circle. We also have different kinds of low tech bombs my friend. With their own flight profile, different speeds (sub sonic, supersonic, etc.), etc. Which can be mass produced. If such a war happens, we can always emergency procure more from Indian sources as well as other countries.
 
Herciv said:
As already said bhramos and rudram and scalp are not every day munitions.
Your unpredictability has also to be able with low tech bombs.
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BrahMos and Scalp-EG are expensive because of their ramjet/turbojet engines. Rudram series is powered by solid rocket propellant motor, which is very cost effective in comparison with the above two and could be fired in numbers by MKI alone. We're also developing BrahMos-NG, which is going to be much cheaper than the full-sized version. Along with that we're also developing our own stealth subsonic cruise missile known as CATS HUNTER. It will be more cost effective than Scalp.

Then we're increasing the range of our smart glide bombs like Gaurav, SAAW etc. All-in-all, we're in a good position as far as saturation stand-off attack via multiple vectors and PGMs is concerned.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
BrahMos and Scalp-EG are expensive because of their ramjet/turbojet engines. Rudram series is powered by solid rocket propellant motor, which is very cost effective in comparison with the above two and could be fired in numbers by MKI alone. We're also developing BrahMos-NG, which is going to be much cheaper than the full-sized version. Along with that we're also developing our own stealth subsonic cruise missile known as CATS HUNTER. It will be more cost effective than Scalp.

Then we're increasing the range of our smart glide bombs like Gaurav, SAAW etc. All-in-all, we're in a good position as far as saturation stand-off attack via multiple vectors and PGMs is concerned.
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BDL is also going to locally manufacture Ice-Breaker.
www.janes.com

Aero India 2025: BDL, Rafael sign Ice Breaker agreement

India's Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) has signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with Rafael Advanced Defense Systems to support the production of the Israeli...
www.janes.com www.janes.com
 
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Rajput Lion said:
BrahMos and Scalp-EG are expensive because of their ramjet/turbojet engines. Rudram series is powered by solid rocket propellant motor, which is very cost effective in comparison with the above two and could be fired in numbers by MKI alone. We're also developing BrahMos-NG, which is going to be much cheaper than the full-sized version. Along with that we're also developing our own stealth subsonic cruise missile known as CATS HUNTER. It will be more cost effective than Scalp.

Then we're increasing the range of our smart glide bombs like Gaurav, SAAW etc. All-in-all, we're in a good position as far as saturation stand-off attack via multiple vectors and PGMs is concerned.
Click to expand...
The price is one things but its availibility in every day fight an other. No complex missiles have a sufficient daily production to be used ... daily.
Then if you don't have versatile solution to use low tech munitions then your fighter is useless most of the time.

The good news is that your enemy has the same problem.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
Then we're increasing the range of our smart glide bombs like Gaurav, SAAW etc. All-in-all, we're in a good position as far as saturation stand-off attack via multiple vectors and PGMs is concerned.
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Ask ukrainians about Hammers. Very usefull but not enough as 155 mm for CAESAR since recently.
 
Herciv said:
The price is one things but its availibility in every day fight an other. No complex missiles have a sufficient daily production to be used ... daily.
Then if you don't have versatile solution to use low tech munitions then your fighter is useless most of the time.

The good news is that your enemy has the same problem.
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We also will have huge stockpile of Israeli stand-off missiles like ROCKS, Rampage & Ice-Breaker. Unlike Europe, India takes her defense extremely seriously.

Herciv said:
Ask ukrainians about Hammers. Very usefull but not enough as 155 mm for CAESAR since recently.
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C'mon bro, now you're shifting the goal-post. From PGMs to artillery shells? Really? Do you really think India lacks 155 mm tubed artillery shells? Have you even any idea about our Rocket artillery and its production capacity?

We have to be prepared for a legit 2-front war and don't enjoy the protection of Uncle Sam's umbrella like France. So all our defence stockpiles are in light of the aforementioned situation.
 
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redpanda said:
"Some cretins don't understand the word of reason, they deserve the language of force. The pot is filling, keep doing your antics, your time of getting beaten is again coming."

"We are preparing. And this time our preparation is heavier than last time."

In short we are expecting them to do something stupid. And are preparing for it.
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😍. Hopefully Baba Hellfires prediction is true. If India is preparing intensively for a short high intensity conflict of 10 days, then the myth of PAF superiority will get crushed soon.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
C'mon bro, now you're shifting the goal-post. From PGMs to artillery shells? Really? Do you really think India lacks 155 mm artillery shells? Have you any idea about our Rocket artiller and its production capacity?

We have to be prepared for a legit 2-front war and don't enjoy the protection of Uncle Sam's umbrella like France. So all our defence stockpiles are in light of the aforementioned situation.
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I don't shift. I tell you that's a problem for every munitions. But for missiles the problem is much more accurate when they are complex to make.
To mitigate this problem your fighter has to be able to accomodate very low tech munition and of course to go very close to the front line.
 
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