MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

[randomradio]

The India specific changes, 2 bases and all that prep is to automatically lower the final cost when the MRFA fighter will finally be decided and then the Rafale will be a clear winner as no one will be able to come even close.

Objectively true. But MRFA will see costs from scratch. Dassault has the advantage of offering a lower price when the contract is signed because of existing infra, like a final assembly line, but in the bid, they will have to include the cost, otherwise the other contenders will complain.

Where Dassault actually has an advantage is new orders have given them greater economies of scale, including the Indian order.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Where Dassault actually has an advantage is new orders have given them greater economies of scale, including the Indian order.

Where Dassault really has an advantage is that the IAF wants Rafales and nothing else.

 

[Hydra]

Where Dassault really has an advantage is that the IAF wants Rafales and nothing else.

Its not the IAF or military is making the decision in India. The crooked finance guys are the real decision maker here, if they found some shit costs less, they will go for it.

 

[randomradio]

Its not the IAF or military is making the decision in India. The crooked finance guys are the real decision maker here, if they found some shit costs less, they will go for it.

The procurement rules have seen some changes. T1 gets 10% boost for L1 if there are unique technologies involved. Meaning if Typhoon costs 100 and Rafale costs 103, Rafale will win because the difference is well within 10%, as long as France is offering unique tech. It may apply to ToT as well.

In any case, Typhoon is unlikely to be cheaper than the Rafale.

 

[jk007]

First I'm hearing of this.

If I'm not mistaken US refused to sell us satellite imagery. We got it from France & Israel & both fleeced us which is how these things go in such emergencies . I'm not aware of any news where a nation specifically refused to sell us pictures claiming their batteries were being drained out .

Surprising, as I believe you guys are more up-to-date than me.....

the IAF chief or Army chief said that in an interview....and that video is in youtube. I saw that in youtube.

 

[Lolwa]

Its not the IAF or military is making the decision in India. The crooked finance guys are the real decision maker here, if they found some shit costs less, they will go for it.

Nah the IAF fighter jocks are obsessed with the Rafale. I don't know what they find so special. But it's the only mature 4.75 gen fighter. The other being Gripen E and f-15 EX. Both can't supercruise unlike the Rafale. It's wierd how capable the Rafale. Only if they could make a larger radar and more ew choices

 

[screambowl]

In India there is a big comeptition among building contractors so if France wants to invest in construction of defence buildings and housing then there is a big profit for French. Just need to give some comission to the incharge of the project through Indians working in French construction company and you get the job done easily. Other countries will also be in the game but France knows how to buy people.

 

[Bon Plan]

Only if they could make a larger radar and more ew choices

The Rafale radar is congruent with Meteor range. More is useless. The radar range, so antenna diameter, was studied taking into account the RCS of the bird. A higer range Su27 radar is useless against a Rafale, because Rafale will always be able to detect and track it from higher range.

More ew choices? Spectra is one of the best, if not the best, ew system for fighter so far. It evolves at every standard of the Rafale, with now GaN, new mode, new frequencies available etc...

 

[Lolwa]

In India there is a big comeptition among building contractors so if France wants to invest in construction of defence buildings and housing then there is a big profit for French. Just need to give some comission to the incharge of the project through Indians working in French construction company and you get the job done easily. Other countries will also be in the game but France knows how to buy people.

French architects and civil engineering would be quite useful for a lot of underdeveloped and developing areas in the country

 

[Ankit Kumar]

The Rafale radar is congruent with Meteor range. More is useless. The radar range, so antenna diameter, was studied taking into account the RCS of the bird. A higer range Su27 radar is useless against a Rafale, because Rafale will always be able to detect and track it from higher range.

More ew choices? Spectra is one of the best, if not the best, ew system for fighter so far. It evolves at every standard of the Rafale, with now GaN, new mode, new frequencies available etc...

Two way data link with meteor and maybe be say upto 5-10% more dry thrust ....

 

[vstol Jockey]

A French Ship Mistrel is in Goa and they gave a performance to the students of BITS, Goa, Enjoy the music. The French guy was outstanding.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

“IAF Views Cyber Operations as an Integral Part of all Military Operations. We are Continuously Working to Upgrade these Capabilities at all times.”

In an exclusive interview to <strong>Jayant Baranwal</strong>, Editor-in-Chief, <strong><em>SP’s Aviation</em>, Air Chief Marshal V.R. Chaudhari</strong>, Chief of the Air Staff...

www.sps-aviation.com

114 MRFA will happen

 

[R73 FTW]

“IAF Views Cyber Operations as an Integral Part of all Military Operations. We are Continuously Working to Upgrade these Capabilities at all times.”

In an exclusive interview to <strong>Jayant Baranwal</strong>, Editor-in-Chief, <strong><em>SP’s Aviation</em>, Air Chief Marshal V.R. Chaudhari</strong>, Chief of the Air Staff...

www.sps-aviation.com

114 MRFA will happen

So 114 MRFA will get us to 35 sqdrns in the next 10yrs or so and the 6-7 sqdrns of AMCA will get us to 41-42 sqdrns right which will be till 2035?

 

[Ankit Kumar]

So 114 MRFA will get us to 35 sqdrns in the next 10yrs or so and the 6-7 sqdrns of AMCA will get us to 41-42 sqdrns right which will be till 2035?

12 Su30MKI squadrons + 3 M2000 + 3 Mig29UPG + 3 Jaguar Darin III + 2 Tejas MK1 + 2 Rafale + 4 Tejas MK1A + 1 Mig29 = 30 squadrons.

These 30 should serve beyond this decade. (I have excluded Mig21 and Jaguars which won't be upgraded)

Then add 6 squadrons under MMRCA 2

So yes that brings the number to 36 squadrons.

Beyond that I will not say anything. Let's see how things pan out.

 

[R73 FTW]

12 Su30MKI squadrons + 3 M2000 + 3 Mig29UPG + 3 Jaguar Darin III + 2 Tejas MK1 + 2 Rafale + 4 Tejas MK1A + 1 Mig29 = 30 squadrons.

These 30 should serve beyond this decade. (I have excluded Mig21 and Jaguars which won't be upgraded)

Then add 6 squadrons under MMRCA 2

So yes that brings the number to 36 squadrons.

Beyond that I will not say anything. Let's see how things pan out.

Since CAS has himself mentioned that 6-7 sqdrns of AMCA is needed with timely development and delivery I think its ok discuss about that thing too. What about tejas mk2? Also until which year do you think we will have the needed 42sqdrns? My guess is 2035-2036 if all goes in timely manner

 

[Ankit Kumar]

tejas mk2?

Will replace the M2000, Jaguar and UPG squadrons. So won't really increase squadron numbers.

2 squadrons of AMCA MK1 should be in service by 2032. So 37-38 squadron by 2035.

But this is manned fighter numbers. Strike UCAVs will come into the picture too by 2027s.

 

[randomradio]

12 Su30MKI squadrons + 3 M2000 + 3 Mig29UPG + 3 Jaguar Darin III + 2 Tejas MK1 + 2 Rafale + 4 Tejas MK1A + 1 Mig29 = 30 squadrons.

These 30 should serve beyond this decade. (I have excluded Mig21 and Jaguars which won't be upgraded)

Then add 6 squadrons under MMRCA 2

So yes that brings the number to 36 squadrons.

Beyond that I will not say anything. Let's see how things pan out.

If we remove all the old jets and consider the fleet strength in the 2040s, then we will have only LCA, MRFA, Rafale, MKI and AMCA. MRFA will most likely be Rafale, so we can consider them to be the same.

It's unclear why the 13th MKI squadron hasn't been raised yet, but let's just consider 12.

So we will have 12 MKI, 6 LCA, 2+6 Rafale and 7 AMCA, with 9 squadrons left over. Assuming 6 more LCAs, we still fall short by 3. And the IAF wants 45 squadrons. So the actual shortfall is 6. And that's covered by options of 3 squadrons each for both LCA and Rafale.

Drones are not counted in this, 42-45 squadrons of manned fighters for this procurement cycle. Unmanned fighters should come in during the next procurement cycle, when these jets begin replacement. Loyal wingman drones will be counted like weapons instead.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

It's unclear why the 13th MKI squadron hasn't been raised yet, but let's just consider 12.

Okay so regarding this. This is just a rumour but Gwalior can see a dedicated MKI squadron raising. It might be for Brahmos or for nuke delivery. Not sure.

But with nearly 22 aircrafts per Squadron, I think this can happen.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

So we will have 12 MKI, 6 LCA, 2+6 Rafale and 7 AMCA, with 9 squadrons left over. Assuming 6 more LCAs, we still fall short by 3. And the IAF wants 45 squadrons. So the actual shortfall is 6. And that's covered by options of 3 squadrons each for both LCA and Rafale.

For Tejas MK2 we can say that a production run of 10 squadrons should be there.

And if MMRCA 2 indeed happens, then additional units , atleast a couple of squadrons will happen. So by 2040 we will be near the 42 mark.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

2040
12 MKI + 6 MK1A + 10 MK2 + 10 Rafales + 2 AMCA Mk1 + 4-5 AMCA MK2 .... So pretty much yeah. Plus we will have a better economy.

Timelines after 2030 won't be actually a problem, it's the 2022 to say 2027 timeline we need to worry about.