Macron wants strategic Paris-Delhi-Canberra axis amid Pacific tension

_Anonymous_

Senior member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
4,773
Location
Mumbai
Reactions
3,364 2,723 0
#81
Thats a funny prospective - getting away from topic of US dictate not being followed & resultant fines to quoting legitamise fines for unfair/fraud practices by companies unrealted to event.
If i quoted VW paid $25 billion to USA, how it be relevant to discussion, they cheated & played unfairly & paid price. USA has a history of sanctions & Fines - if you like can dig from 1950's too.
But is any of theses companies fines related to Unilateral Dictate not followed by other & then resultant fines??

Through 3rd party unilateral sanctions, USA tried to dictate India not to buy Russian arms, what happened Quad got cold reception & India bought $10 billion worth of equipment from Russia in 6 months.
You're engaging with a fool. Plus it's St Patrick's week. The usually inebriated turn highly inebriated. Be warned.
 

A Person

Well-Known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
503
Location
A Place
Reactions
441 105 0
#82
Does India have to be a totalitarian revisionist country bent on territorial expansion for Western nations to care about it gaining too much influence and trade power? Western people of the 70s and 80s thought of Japan the same way western people of today think of China.
In the USA, sure; but in France there wasn't much fear of Japan. You've got to keep in mind that France, contrarily to the USA, is a country that has long accepted it's no longer a first-rank hegemonic power. From that perspective, having several great powers vying for influence is better than having just one or two. With competition between several great powers, medium powers are courted and can thus keep a large amount of independence because the great power they associate with doesn't want to cause them to switch side. With just one unchallenged great power, medium powers are vassalized because there's no one else they can turn to.
The emergence of India as a great power is therefore a good thing for France.

The one thing that could change this appraisal was if India threatened French interests in the Indian Ocean, or to cut access to the Pacific Ocean. This, honestly, doesn't seem likely to me. However, China is a threat for French interests in the Pacific, as Chinese fishers do not respect other countries' EEZ and the Chinese navy is helping them cause unrepairable damage to fisheries in their quest for quick, immediate harvests. Caledonia is also threatened by China has it has rich nickel resources. China is still quite a long way away because there's a big buffer zone, but it's going to shrink and Chinese fishers are already plundering the Eastern African coast.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
109
Location
Ohio
Reactions
111 13 0
#83
In the USA, sure; but in France there wasn't much fear of Japan. You've got to keep in mind that France, contrarily to the USA, is a country that has long accepted it's no longer a first-rank hegemonic power. From that perspective, having several great powers vying for influence is better than having just one or two. With competition between several great powers, medium powers are courted and can thus keep a large amount of independence because the great power they associate with doesn't want to cause them to switch side. With just one unchallenged great power, medium powers are vassalized because there's no one else they can turn to.
The emergence of India as a great power is therefore a good thing for France.

The one thing that could change this appraisal was if India threatened French interests in the Indian Ocean, or to cut access to the Pacific Ocean. This, honestly, doesn't seem likely to me. However, China is a threat for French interests in the Pacific, as Chinese fishers do not respect other countries' EEZ and the Chinese navy is helping them cause unrepairable damage to fisheries in their quest for quick, immediate harvests. Caledonia is also threatened by China has it has rich nickel resources. China is still quite a long way away because there's a big buffer zone, but it's going to shrink and Chinese fishers are already plundering the Eastern African coast.
The major causes of anti-Japanese sentiment was the success of their industry displacing US industries. Similarly, I don't think India has to be a hostile actor to warrant malice from the public and policy makers wouldn't you agree? India has a lot of natural momentum and, if left unchecked, has the potential dominate economically.

I mostly agree with your thoughts on the relationship between great and middle powers. I think the main point of what I was trying to convey was summarized by @_Anonymous_

To come back to India, in the light of the above info, you can be sure that the west , with the benefit of hindsight, wouldn't Go all out to embrace India and ensure its growth as it did to China . All technology shared will be adequate & never more than what's required and the same will go for investment which would never be handsome.At the same time , let's face it, we haven't done ourselves many favours. The West isn't likely to repeat the same mistake twice.
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Messages
281
Location
India
Reactions
250 78 0
#84
Oh right, white supremacist shivering in there graves, while being technically alive, in 30 years, average Indians are earning $20,000K annually.
What horrors!! We cant allow these Indians to rise above Poverty, they will "potential dominate economically."
Cant be "left unchecked"
 
Last edited:

BMD

Well-Known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
3,789
Reactions
672 569 0
#87
Thats a funny prospective - getting away from topic of US dictate not being followed & resultant fines to quoting legitamise fines for unfair/fraud practices by companies unrealted to event.
If i quoted VW paid $25 billion to USA, how it be relevant to discussion, they cheated & played unfairly & paid price. USA has a history of sanctions & Fines - if you like can dig from 1950's too.
But is any of theses companies fines related to Unilateral Dictate not followed by other & then resultant fines??

Through 3rd party unilateral sanctions, USA tried to dictate India not to buy Russian arms, what happened Quad got cold reception & India bought $10 billion worth of equipment from Russia in 6 months.
The EU made rules and fined US companies for breaking them, the US made rules and fined EU companies for breaking them.

India buys Russian weapons and China buys Russian weapons. China reverse engineers them and finds out their weaknesses and how to exploit them and overcome them. You should be fine with those Russian weapons.:D:poop:
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Messages
281
Location
India
Reactions
250 78 0
#89
India buys Russian weapons and China buys Russian weapons. China reverse engineers them and finds out their weaknesses and how to exploit them and overcome them. You should be fine with those Russian weapons.:D:poop:
No Wrong Again -
India not only buys Russian, also French, Israeli, Italian, German, Swiss, USA, British & the list continues forever. And also develops its products a bit above the best in market. If Indian developed product is not the best in world, we buy the best product - whoever makes them, like we choose Rafale, S400+, Apache etc thx for your fake worries. :poop:
Unless you are worried china got a counter to every best tech developed across globe.
Atleast India has the option for all the best tech (minus china), but poor you only limited to one set. :LOL::devilish:
 
Last edited:

_Anonymous_

Senior member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
4,773
Location
Mumbai
Reactions
3,364 2,723 0
#90
Meanwhile RR has rushed to Beijing offering to set up a jet engine plant there. Of course, this has no bearing whatsoever on Anglo - Canada - Australia - NZ - UK trade bloc in the making - the best thing which happened to the UK since mom's apple pie.
 

A Person

Well-Known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
503
Location
A Place
Reactions
441 105 0
#91
civilizationally what's common between India & France
There are certainly a lot of historical and cultural differences.

However...



... There's something there that reminds me of something else. Can you guess what?

Also keep in mind that distance isn't a bad thing. You don't fight as much with people who are far away as you do with your neighbors. Throughout history, France has been at most the most with Prussia/Germany, England, Italy, Spain... Wars with more remote powers, such as Russia, happened much less often. And India, since its independence, has been in armed conflict with Pakistan and China.

India should join the EU.
Not possible, membership is only open to countries that are at least partially in Europe. So India would have to acquire some European soil first. Perhaps they can invade and annex Great Britain; just so that Pakistan doesn't do it first.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
109
Location
Ohio
Reactions
111 13 0
#92
Oh right, white supremacist shivering in there graves, while being technically alive, in 30 years, average Indians are earning $20,000K annually.
What horrors!! We cant allow these Indians to rise above Poverty, they have the "potential to dominate economically."
Cant be "left unchecked"
Nice catch. o_O

OT: I mean, I get that for many its a race thing and that makes for an easy rallying call... but it doesn't always have to be about race. Is it so unreasonable for existing powers to want to limit the influence of emerging powers? Regardless of race or religion, it just seems like a natural thing to do. I'm not saying that Indians shouldn't cooperate with the west or other nations, just to keep in mind that ultimately India has great power ambitions and the current great powers aren't looking forward to expanding their club.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
4,773
Location
Mumbai
Reactions
3,364 2,723 0
#93
There are certainly a lot of historical and cultural differences.

However...


There's something there that reminds me of something else. Can you guess what?

Also keep in mind that distance isn't a bad thing. You don't fight as much with people who are far away as you do with your neighbors. Throughout history, France has been at most the most with Prussia/Germany, England, Italy, Spain... Wars with more remote powers, such as Russia, happened much less often. And India, since its independence, has been in armed conflict with Pakistan and China.
No idea. Unless you're referring to the ideals of the French Revolution. The Indian Constitution takes a lot from the Government of India Act 1935 & British Common Law for obvious reasons.


Government of India Act 1935 - Wikipedia

You had one decisive war with Russia. That cost you your empire in Europe. The outcome matters as much as the frequency.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
4,773
Location
Mumbai
Reactions
3,364 2,723 0
#94
Nice catch. o_O

OT: I mean, I get that for many its a race thing and that makes for an easy rallying call... but it doesn't always have to be about race. Is it so unreasonable for existing powers to want to limit the influence of emerging powers? Regardless of race or religion, it just seems like a natural thing to do. I'm not saying that Indians shouldn't cooperate with the west or other nations, just to keep in mind that ultimately India has great power ambitions and the current great powers aren't looking forward to expanding their club.
I always thought you were a US citizen of Indian origin.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
4,773
Location
Mumbai
Reactions
3,364 2,723 0
#96
I am :cool:
I hope I didn't imply otherwise...
I did grow up in a small town and, other than a "vedic studies" program, basically had no connection to India at all.
You ought to visit India often just to acquaint yourself better. I don't mean getting in touch with your roots and exploring your spiritual side etc unless those are areas of interest. There are many Indias out here all moving at the same time in different trajectories at different velocities. I think this forum here must have given you an inkling. PDF is even more raucous and boisterous and I mean among Indian members.
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Messages
281
Location
India
Reactions
250 78 0
#97
Nice catch. o_O

OT: I mean, I get that for many its a race thing and that makes for an easy rallying call... but it doesn't always have to be about race. Is it so unreasonable for existing powers to want to limit the influence of emerging powers? Regardless of race or religion, it just seems like a natural thing to do. I'm not saying that Indians shouldn't cooperate with the west or other nations, just to keep in mind that ultimately India has great power ambitions and the current great powers aren't looking forward to expanding their club.
Its not due to any gratious act of Current great power - for India to become a future Great Power. India will get there with or without.
Militarily - India not a genie, that you can put it back in a bottle, its already released post independence & will continue avg 8% growth for next 3 decades & nothing short of full fledged nuclear armed conflict who ever foolishly chooses to do so, can create a bump in story & rest of world can celebrate some nuclear winters & mass famines of there own.

Economically if any company chooses to stay out, fine good for them, they only miss out in next biggest market major chunk, no worries there.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
109
Location
Ohio
Reactions
111 13 0
#99
You ought to visit India often just to acquaint yourself better. I don't mean getting in touch with your roots and exploring your spiritual side etc. There are many Indias out here all moving at the same time in different trajectories at different velocities. I think this forum here must have given you an inkling. PDF is even more raucous and boisterous and I mean among Indian members.
Are you implying that I should visit PDF :p? I've ghosted that forum for years and honestly - the blend of delusion & trolling, combined with the overall decline of thoughtful submissions, makes browsing PDF a big waste of time. At best a guilty pleasure like PHub :LOL:

But seriously, I do try visiting India since I have a lot of family there. I was actually supposed to be in Bangalore for a few days last month but had to cancel. I generally lack time which makes planning longer trips hard. It is a pretty country, and I am always blown away with the new developments that spring up each time I visit. I hope to travel the country more, hopefully within the next few years.


Its not due to any gratious act of Current great power - for India to become a future Great Power. India will get there with or without.
Militarily - India not a genie, that you can put it back in a bottle, its already released post independence & will continue avg 8% growth for next 3 decades & nothing short of full fledged nuclear armed conflict who ever foolishly chooses to do so, can create a bump in story & rest of world can celebrate some nuclear winters & mass famines of there own.

Economically if any company chooses to stay out, fine good for them, they only miss out in next biggest market major chunk, no worries there.
I would just caution you taking anything for granted. I do think the future is bright for India, and I look forward to its rise.
 

BMD

Well-Known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
3,789
Reactions
672 569 0
No Wrong Again -
India not only buys Russian, also French, Israeli, Italian, German, Swiss, USA, British & the list continues forever. And also develops its products a bit above the best in market. If Indian developed product is not the best in world, we buy the best product - whoever makes them, like we choose Rafale, S400+, Apache etc thx for your fake worries. :poop:
Unless you are worried china got a counter to every best tech developed across globe.
Atleast India has the option for all the best tech (minus china), but poor you only limited to one set. :LOL::devilish:
The point is that the Russian stuff you buy will be useless against China, and given Chinese backing of Pakistan, it probably won't be much use against them either.

The set we choose is aligned with allies and completely separate from the Sino-Russian collection.