LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

Kshithij Sharma said:
I am trying to say that a single engine 5th generation fighter will need a big engine like the F35. It is simply better to go with twin engines than with such a big engine. The plane will be more sleek and wider with 2 engines, thus giving is less RCS and higher wing area. Single engine 5th generation plane is a big no. F35 is a good example of failure to not repeat. F35 is aerodynamically very bad. Ideally, a plane of F35 size needed 250kN of thrust but due to single engine limitation, it got just 180kN. In addition, the wing area is small and the belly too big which makes it very poor in maneuverability. F22 on the other hand is an ideal example of excellent 5th generation plane. Even Su57, J20 are all twin engine planes for the same reason.

UTTAM AESA has been undergoing tests since 2016 and not yet complete because the project itself started in 2014. You can't expect a projet to complete by 4 years, especially for an AESA radar. The fact that these people completed the air-air code in 2 years and started shows a lot about quality of Indian scientists and coders. Even in EW pods, DRDO has access to materials from Israel and Russia where the right equipment can be inserted. The only thing not accessible is the coding. In this part, I have full faith in Indian coders. So, I consider EW as easily completable.

Tejas MK2 has been sanctioned in 2013 where Tejas Mk1 was rejected as deficient and a new project sanctioned (just like Arjun tank saga). It has completed its preliminary design review and even dimensions have been declared in a news article a few months back. The naval version was also sanctioned and Mr Lanba himself acknowledged that.
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Cost analysis. Why we need SE fighters when TE fighters can be inducted. Its the costs. In not so long future we would be operating only 5th gen birds. 4th gen birds will be phased out and countries will look (India included) for cheap single engine 5th gen ac. U cant have premier 5th gen ac going to skies for small trifles like escorting or uninformed civilian plane or investigating an area. What I do talk makes sense. If someone is inducting an ac from 2030, its expected to serve till 2070, and it would be comical to see an 4th gen ac in 2070's. Moreover IAF knows more than us on what to decide.

Do u know Thales prepared and tested an new radar for mk1a programme in less than 6 months? Its based from an another model. But still 6 months. Cos they have prior experience. Same goes for our radar, EW suite etc. EW suite was integrated and flight tested on our Tejas in 2015. But not much progress have been made that we are now going back to the Israelis. Reason? Defence Electronics is another ballgame altogether. DRDO will get better with time.
 
Who told you that we would only be using 5th generation planes? The low observability is not possible with external stores of ammunition. But with only internal storage, there won't be enough space for fuel, ammunition and other equipment. So, the stealth planes are only fit for a select few roles. LCA Mk2 will the main plane for India (as most of the threat is close by) followed by Su30 in small numbers for long distance attack. 5th generation planes will only be used for strategic targeting and not as a mainstream plane.

Single engine when becomes too large like F35, it will cost more than 2 engines combined together. So, the question of single engine 5th generation plane is simply ruled out. Why make a 5th generation plane when it is going to be used with external stores? 5th generation plane is only for air superiority and strategic bombing and will be made in limited numbers only. There will be nothing called cheap 5th generation plane. 5th generation plane will be specifically designed for stealth and hence can't carry external stores which make them useless for most of the trivial jobs.

LCA Mk2 is cheap to make in large numbers as well as excellent in maneuverability. It also has small size and hence low observability while carrying only BVR missiles (without bulky external stores). For cheap but powerful planes, there is no need to look at any alternative. LCA is going to cost 30% of AMCA mainly because of the single engine and delta wing structure which makes LCA faster to assemble and to manufacture. LCA MK2 is the main plane of the foreseeable future.

it would be comical to see an 4th gen ac in 2070's
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Do you even know what is 5th generation or 4th or 4.5th generation and the difference between them? Please list out to see how comical it will sound.

The EW and AESA is proceeding well but is not fully mature. The different version of EW made by DARE was used in MiG21, Jaguar, MiG27 etc. So, they have experience. They may be trying to get even more advanced EW suite as ToT (just like they put RFI for SE plane with intention of ToT) but there definitely is decent experience. India is inexperienced in AESA but that is because the project is just 4 years old and has 2 years of flight test data. It will mature over time too.

Vicky said:
Cost analysis. Why we need SE fighters when TE fighters can be inducted. Its the costs. In not so long future we would be operating only 5th gen birds. 4th gen birds will be phased out and countries will look (India included) for cheap single engine 5th gen ac. U cant have premier 5th gen ac going to skies for small trifles like escorting or uninformed civilian plane or investigating an area. What I do talk makes sense. If someone is inducting an ac from 2030, its expected to serve till 2070, and it would be comical to see an 4th gen ac in 2070's. Moreover IAF knows more than us on what to decide.

Do u know Thales prepared and tested an new radar for mk1a programme in less than 6 months? Its based from an another model. But still 6 months. Cos they have prior experience. Same goes for our radar, EW suite etc. EW suite was integrated and flight tested on our Tejas in 2015. But not much progress have been made that we are now going back to the Israelis. Reason? Defence Electronics is another ballgame altogether. DRDO will get better with time.
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Kshithij Sharma said:
Pakistan has acquired 500 AIM120C during 2001-2 from USA when USA sought for assistance in Afghanistan war. So, the BVR with Pakistan is a credible one. The no escape zone of pakistani BVR is about 30km whereas for Astra/R77 it is 20km
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I don’t think JF 17 will be compatible with Americans AIM but yes from F16 it’s true .
 
TARGET said:
I don’t think JF 17 will be compatible with Americans AIM but yes from F16 it’s true .
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And accept for a few handful of F-16s all are grounded due to lack of spares. Fact is they are cannibalising to keep a few active. JF-17 blunders have some crappy Chinese bvrs...
 
Kshithij Sharma said:
Pakistan has acquired 500 AIM120C during 2001-2 from USA when USA sought for assistance in Afghanistan war. So, the BVR with Pakistan is a credible one. The no escape zone of pakistani BVR is about 30km whereas for Astra/R77 it is 20km
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Those are more than a 15 years old and are near the expiry date and most of these Pakistani AIM120Cs may be dud by now due to lack of spares and no service support from uncle.....so PAF doesn't have credible bvr capabilities for now.
 
Those AIM 120 C of PAF are now at least Ten years old They were delivered after 2005 and till 2008

The Shelf life of AAM is not much beyond Ten years
 
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lcafanboy said:
Those are more than a 15 years old and are near the expiry date and most of these Pakistani AIM120Cs may be dud by now due to lack of spares and no service support from uncle.....so PAF doesn't have credible bvr capabilities for now.
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BVRs don't need spares. They have shelf life of 30 years and since these were ordered in 2001-2 and delivered in 1-2 years, they will work till 2030-35. Even after the official shelf life, there will still be life left in the missiles although with some error
 
Kshithij Sharma said:
BVRs don't need spares. They have shelf life of 30 years and since these were ordered in 2001-2 and delivered in 1-2 years, they will work till 2030-35. Even after the official shelf life, there will still be life left in the missiles although with some error
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The shelf life of the motor on the AMRAAM as per the manufacturer is 20 years if stored in optimum conditions. Other devices in the missile will have their own shelf lives. Anything beyond that is here say. Also, air forces test missiles to check for problems. Read about the WSEP program.
 
suryakiran said:
The shelf life of the motor on the AMRAAM as per the manufacturer is 20 years if stored in optimum conditions. Other devices in the missile will have their own shelf lives. Anything beyond that is here say. Also, air forces test missiles to check for problems. Read about the WSEP program.
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You are speaking to the deaf. There is no need to add to the list of disabilities.
 
halloweene said:
Were these AMRAAMs actually delivered to Pakistan (genuine question. Quite often, USA "store" sold missiles, see Taiwan...)
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There is a lot of doubt.

Apparently, from some authoritative accounts from the Pakistani side, they were short of spares and of munition for the F-16s, and could not engage the IAF meaningfully, having received no notice from the Pakistan Army that there might be an Indian reaction to the incursions. Whether this referred to the AMRAAMs or not is not known, but considering that these were the F-16s, they were probably not even delivered.
 
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