LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

It is objectively expensive when it costs three times as much as a normal BVR missile.
Our Normal BVR missiles failed miserably in 2019 when Su30 MKIs could not get a firing solution on F-16s. Meteor would have shot down those buggers.

The slight advantage in No-Escape Zone (NEZ) for the Meteor doesn't necessarily make it worth it every time. Otherwise, air forces like the USAF would have abandoned the AMRAAM for the Meteor.
Actually, USAF is upgrading their missiles too while we are stuck with cheap generic AIM-120Cs. Not to mention, recently F-35s have upgraded to carry Meteor internally.

And NO, NEZ of meteor is not slightly higher. NEZ of Meteor is 60 KM. NEZ of all missiles in service with IAF is about 20-30 KM at most. This is a massive difference.

Our stupid Indian thinking of saving 2 bucks to later lose 20 million is the reason why Indian Airforce gets caught pants down every time a skirmish happens.

No wonder Dhoti Shivering is the default modus operandi of south block.
 
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Actually, USAF is upgrading their missiles too while we are stuck with cheap generic AIM-120Cs. Not to mention, recently F-35s have upgraded to carry Meteor internally.

And NO, NEZ of meteor is not slightly higher. NEZ of Meteor is 60 KM. NEZ of all missiles in service with IAF is about 20-30 KM at most. This is a massive difference.

Our stupid Indian thinking of saving 2 bucks to later lose 20 million is the reason why Indian Airforce gets caught pants down every time a skirmish happens.

No wonder Dhoti Shivering is the default modus operandi of south block.
Pretty sure we don't operate AIM-120s of any vintage or designation. Our standard BVRAAMs have been RVV-AE, RVV-SD, Mica series for the Mirages and a limited quantity of i-Derby-ER. The former 2 are being replaced by Astra MK1 currently.
 
Our Normal BVR missiles failed miserably in 2019 when Su30 MKIs could not get a firing solution on F-16s. Meteor would have shot down those buggers.
No one fires at 100km without having an IFF system effective at that range. PAF pilots showed the lack of professionalism on their part.

The only mistake on IAFs part was the outdated SOPs in place. The BARs would give a firing solution much before on multiple vectors with different types of missiles at once compared to whatever PAF was having.

IFF and communication between aircrafts are so extremely important to be able to fire at anything beyond 50km.
 
Pretty sure we don't operate AIM-120s of any vintage or designation. Our standard BVRAAMs have been RVV-AE, RVV-SD, Mica series for the Mirages and a limited quantity of i-Derby-ER. The former 2 are being replaced by Astra MK1 currently.
The closest we came to operating AIM-120 was when the US tried to push NASAMS down our throats as a 'solution for defending Delhi'. But never say never. MRFA 2 might throw up a surprise if GoI decides to mollify Trump with another multi-billion dollar deal. We still have a trade surplus with the US even after they withdrew India's GSP benefits.
 
Pretty sure we don't operate AIM-120s of any vintage or designation. Our standard BVRAAMs have been RVV-AE, RVV-SD, Mica series for the Mirages and a limited quantity of i-Derby-ER. The former 2 are being replaced by Astra MK1 currently.
Thats why I said "Generic AIM120C". Our BVRs are essentially cheaper alternative to AIM120C-5 with capability and reliability severely lacking to AIM120C-5. Our Astra Mk1, which was recently handed off to our airforce is trying to get us to AIM120C-5 in capability.

Meteor outclasses all of these missiles.
 
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Another LCA manufacturing line by private sector economically unviable

Sources within the government said that such a move would lead to too much duplication, will increase costs, and is economically unviable​


A separate manufacturing line for the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) by the private sector is economically unviable, sources said ruling out any such possibility while stating that the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will have capability to produce 24 jets next year with the private industry involved in a big way. This has one of the suggestions from various quarters to speed up the delayed LCA production.

“A single type of aircraft is not produced by two different companies anywhere in the world. It will be too much duplication, will increase costs and is economically unviable. Private sector will be involved more and more in the current programme with HAL being the lead integrator,” an informed source said. For instance, in addition to the big companies, there are also 270 Micro, Small, and Medium Enterprises (MSME) working with HAL.


Now the LCA orders are for 180 aircraft beyond the earlier 40, which is a sizeable number. So HAL has gone for a third line, next year the production rate of the LCA will reach 24 aircraft per year, the source noted. Deliveries of the LCA-Mk1A by HAL to the Indian Air Force (IAF) have been delayed, in a major part due to non-delivery of F-404 engines by General Electric. The engine manufacturer has only two engines with which HAL will be able to handover two jets to the IAF this fiscal, sources said.

On the LCA-Mk1A, integration of the Israeli radar has been completed while weapon integration is on, sources said which includes air to air and air to ground weapons. The aircraft will be delivered while the integration will take sometime, sources said.

In 2021, the Defence Ministry had signed a ₹48,000 crore deal with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to supply 83 LCA-Mk1A, a more capable fighter than the current LCA-MK1 in service. As per contract, three jets were scheduled to be delivered to the IAF in February 2024 and 16 aircraft per year for subsequent five years. An order for 97 additional LCA-Mk1A is under process.

In September 2022, the Cabinet Committee on Security gave sanction for the development of the LCA-Mk2 at a total cost of ₹9,000 crore, a bigger and more capable fighter than the present LCA, and is currently under development. The LCA-Mk2 will be powered by the GE F-414 engine which produces 98kN thrust compared to 84kN thrust of the GE-404 engine powering the LCA Mk1 and MK1A. Discussions are in advanced stages for license manufacturing the engine in India. “Commercial terms of the agreement are being negotiated between HAL and GE. It is expected to be concluded this financial year,” sources said.

On the LCA-Mk2, IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal A. P. Singh said last month that it is supposed to do its first flight by October 2025 and by December 2027 is supposed to be end of the Research & Development phase. Officials had stated that deliveries of the LCA-MK2 are expected to commence from 2032 by which time the deliveries of all 180 LCA-MK1A are expected to be completed. As of now, the IAF has committed to procuring around 120 LCA-Mk2.

In September, then IAF Chief ACM V.R. Chaudhari while stating that while HAL remain the lead, suggested more public-private partnerships or joint ventures with private partners to ramp up production of the LCA. “Our present orders of 83 LCA-Mk1As, which will be followed up with 97 more, will definitely take a few years to fructify. The way forward is to diversify the production lines, have more public-private partnerships or joint ventures with private partners to have multiple weaponry lines as well as multiple production lines,” he had said.

“That is the way we can catch up with our requirements and be able to export to other nations as well,” he added while stressing that HAL should take the lead in any model evolved.

Since We (Public Sectors) have invested heavily in inefficiency, you cannot take away project from us. Let us maintain our track record of inefficiency and delays.
 
No one fires at 100km without having an IFF system effective at that range. PAF pilots showed the lack of professionalism on their part.

The only mistake on IAFs part was the outdated SOPs in place. The BARs would give a firing solution much before on multiple vectors with different types of missiles at once compared to whatever PAF was having.

IFF and communication between aircrafts are so extremely important to be able to fire at anything beyond 50km.
Isn't that the way NATO air forces usually fight? Launch at the limit range of am 120, forcing the enemy to maneuver away from the missile or turn around and retreat ( also the performance of the Indian Su-30 in 2019), if the enemy does not retreat, then launch two missiles at a distance of about 30~50KM,.At this time, the energy of the opposing aircraft has dropped, and there is a great chance of shooting down the enemy
 
Isn't that the way NATO air forces usually fight? Launch at the limit range of am 120, forcing the enemy to maneuver away from the missile or turn around and retreat ( also the performance of the Indian Su-30 in 2019), if the enemy does not retreat, then launch two missiles at a distance of about 30~50KM,.At this time, the energy of the opposing aircraft has dropped, and there is a great chance of shooting down the enemy
They have very good AWACS coverage to overcome the limitations of Link 16 or IFF systems.

Otherwise imagine 20+ different airforces in the region with 19 of them friendly. You wouldn't fire untill you have conformation that the vector is a threat.
 
Isn't that the way NATO air forces usually fight? Launch at the limit range of am 120, forcing the enemy to maneuver away from the missile or turn around and retreat ( also the performance of the Indian Su-30 in 2019), if the enemy does not retreat, then launch two missiles at a distance of about 30~50KM,.At this time, the energy of the opposing aircraft has dropped, and there is a great chance of shooting down the enemy
That's when you are in a direct conflict where there are no peacetime rules of engagement. Indian MKIs could only engage when fired upon.

Galwan was fought with sticks and stones because both parties adhered to the no-gun policy. The PAF's ego was hurt because they couldn't detect the deep strike inside their territory. So, they wanted to show of force. No kind of missiles new missiles would have changed the story that day.

Let's not derail this thread with that discussion. Please use the appropriate thread.
 
AIM120A and Astra-1 have similar range, I can make that assumption
Uhhmm the aim120a/b's range is 60-90km the C5 has a range of 105km and 120+ km for the c-7's.
From what I could find the pl12ae has a range between 100-150km which puts it in the same class as the astra mk1, C5, c7 and r-77sd.
 
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Astra MK2 is in the same class as PL-15. PL-17 is a VLRAAM and so far we don't have an analogue for that.

Astra MK3 would be in Meteor class which means far superior than any PLAAF BVR missile.

PS: Chinese are also working on PL-21, i.e., SFDR variant of PL-15. If they deploy it before Astra 3, then both PLAAF and IAF would be at par in terms of BVRs.

China has a habit of overhyping their systems. That we have seen many times. Their HQ couldn't even track Brahmos forget about shooting it down. Their So called heavy lift vehicle has multiple failures. Their J 10s have fallen down in big number. Their over hyped J 20 is a piece of shit with no fifth generation stuff in it. Actual capability wise, they are far inferior to its counterparts in any aspect.
 
Derisking the critical shortfall of our squadrons.

You now have assembly lines capable of producing 24 jets a year but can not even produce 2-3 jets in a year because of imported product shortfalls.
If shortfall of squadron matter, then any possiblity of delay should be removed beforehand. That includes Engine (extremely critical), Radome (critical), Radar(extremely critical) for the least.

Stock pile them before hand.

No one can do that without orders. Especially when it's a billion dollar investment with no guarantee of orders.
 
Isn't that the way NATO air forces usually fight? Launch at the limit range of am 120, forcing the enemy to maneuver away from the missile or turn around and retreat ( also the performance of the Indian Su-30 in 2019), if the enemy does not retreat, then launch two missiles at a distance of about 30~50KM,.At this time, the energy of the opposing aircraft has dropped, and there is a great chance of shooting down the enemy

They tried and failed. At least 4 were fired at the 2 MKIs.
 
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