LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

randomradio

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Tejas Mk1A will defeat anything in Chinese arsenal in BVR combat. If it is offerred with Python V, it will have great WVR capability as well.

It depends.

The Mk1A is supposed to fight an invader on our own soil. So it's gonna fight with the assistance of our own ISR complex alongside SAMs. Meaning, it's not meant to cross into enemy territory and fight on their terms like the more advanced jets will. Without offboard sensor support, it can't defeat threats like the J-20. On its own, it can only fight older jets on equal footing.

Also, the LCA Mk1A's job is not to fight and kill, it's to break enemy formations and send them home, forcing them to waste a sortie along with hours of preparation time. Once formations break, it takes time to regroup, giving enough time for the defenders to better prepare. So, when an enemy fighter sweep, meant to clear the airspace and make a path for strike jets, engages high endurance MKIs conducting CAP, the low endurance LCAs would be scrambled to outflank the fighter sweep and/or break the formation of the strike aircraft following the fighter sweep.

Otoh, when we are on the offensive, the MKIs perform fighter sweep, and the LCAs would escort our strike aircraft. And the LCAs role then is to prevent the enemy from breaking our formation, by, again, breaking their defensive formation.
 
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Arpuism

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It depends.

The Mk1A is supposed to fight an invader on our own soil. So it's gonna fight with the assistance of our own ISR complex alongside SAMs. Meaning, it's not meant to cross into enemy territory and fight on their terms like the more advanced jets will. Without offboard sensor support, it can't defeat threats like the J-20. On its own, it can only fight older jets on equal footing.

Also, the LCA Mk1A's job is not to fight and kill, it's to break enemy formations and send them home, forcing them to waste a sortie along with hours of preparation time. Once formations break, it takes time to regroup, giving enough time for the defenders to better prepare. So, when an enemy fighter sweep, meant to clear the airspace and make a path for strike jets, engages high endurance MKIs conducting CAP, the low endurance LCAs would be scrambled to outflank the fighter sweep and/or break the formation of the strike aircraft following the fighter sweep.

Otoh, when we are on the offensive, the MKIs perform fighter sweep, and the LCAs would escort our strike aircraft. And the LCAs role then is to prevent the enemy from breaking our formation, by, again, breaking their defensive formation.
If Tejas in any form is not meant to cross enemy territory why the heck is IAF demanded air to ground weapons capabilities in it?? Why they demanded it to be multirole??
Tejas can and will be used to cross enemy territory whenever needed and it is fully equipped to fight on its own.
Now coming to another point if tejas is not meant to kill then why bother to put long range BVR missiles and ultra long range SFDR on it. The role of defending and breaking incoming enemy formation can be done by WVR only.
 
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jetray

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If Tejas in any form is not meant to cross enemy territory why the heck is IAF demanded air to ground weapons capabilities in it?? Why they demanded it to be multirole??
Tejas can and will be used to cross enemy territory whenever needed and it is fully equipped to fight on its own.
Now coming to another point if tejas is not meant to kill then why bother to put long range BVR missiles and ultra long range SFDR on it. The role of defending and breaking incoming enemy formation can be done by WVR only.
tejas is replacing mig-21's , its more of a point defence fighter. It will need ground weapons if in case it is guarding any facilities near LOC. Every plane needs a BVR now a days to survive. Its more of a plane which can intimidate & deter enemy by numbers than individual capability.
 

Arpuism

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tejas is replacing mig-21's , its more of a point defence fighter. It will need ground weapons if in case it is guarding any facilities near LOC. Every plane needs a BVR now a days to survive. Its more of a plane which can intimidate & deter enemy by numbers than individual capability.
Tejas is a multirole fighter not a point defence fighter. LGB, SAAW, ARM, Rudram 2 & 3, Brahmos NG, hammer, spice, JDAM, glide bombs etc., are these meant to guard the border?? They are meant to destroy enemy assests deep inside its territory. BVR & LRBVR are not needed to survive but to attain kills. All fighters are having it bcoz those days of separate fighter for specific roles are now gone and nearly all fighters are multirole for doing nearly all kinds of role. Through sustained and dedicated efforts of IAF & our countries top scientists and engineers, Tejas has individual capacity to perform all types of roles. Just because it is meant to be cost effective and easy to produce doesnt mean it is low on capabilities.
 
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randomradio

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If Tejas in any form is not meant to cross enemy territory why the heck is IAF demanded air to ground weapons capabilities in it?? Why they demanded it to be multirole??
Tejas can and will be used to cross enemy territory whenever needed and it is fully equipped to fight on its own.
Now coming to another point if tejas is not meant to kill then why bother to put long range BVR missiles and ultra long range SFDR on it. The role of defending and breaking incoming enemy formation can be done by WVR only.

For up to 100Km from FEBA, ie the frontline. To support the army through CAS and interdiction missions. It only has a 40-minute endurance after all. An aircraft of this class has been designed to operate in a radius of less than 150Km from a friendly air base. So strike is a secondary role, it's meant to help the army hit targets outside howitzer artillery range when it's not performing its primary role.

What I said before was in the air superiority role. The LCA is first and foremost an air superiority fighter. It does not carry the avionics necessary for complex strike missions, all it can do is drop bombs accurately at short distances against unprotected targets, like small bunkers, trucks, tanks, infantry etc.

It's not "fully equipped" to fight any enemy on its own. In fact, that's the quality of 6th gen. Such jets have yet to come into existence.
 

Arpuism

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For up to 100Km from FEBA, ie the frontline. To support the army through CAS and interdiction missions. It only has a 40-minute endurance after all. An aircraft of this class has been designed to operate in a radius of less than 150Km from a friendly air base. So strike is a secondary role, it's meant to help the army hit targets outside howitzer artillery range when it's not performing its primary role.

What I said before was in the air superiority role. The LCA is first and foremost an air superiority fighter. It does not carry the avionics necessary for complex strike missions, all it can do is drop bombs accurately at short distances against unprotected targets, like small bunkers, trucks, tanks, infantry etc.

It's not "fully equipped" to fight any enemy on its own. In fact, that's the quality of 6th gen. Such jets have yet to come into existence.
You are forgetting that Tejas now has air to air refuelling and its combat radius is 500 km. Tejas air to ground capabilities is the best in IAF after Rafale so it cant be said that Tejas’ air to ground capabilities are secondary. It is a true multirole fighter. SAAW, ARM, Brahmos NG, Rudram, spice etc integration on Tejas are not meant for CAS but to strike enemy assets deep into enemy territory by crossing both LOC as well as LAC. If Tejas was to be required for just hitting unprotected targets, it would have been equipped with lighter weapons like SANT etc. No need for equipping such heavy weaponry on it. Interdiction missions are carried out deep inside enemy territory mate.
Tejas can perform all types of roles of a multirole fighter.
What you said in air superiority role is also not true. You mentioned only interceptor & escort typ role for Tejas and said it wont do air combat. However, it can perform air combat and is build for kills not mere air defense and escort.
Since, there is no 6th gen fighter as yet you are saying as if no fighter is able to do or none has ever done combat on its own. Thats gross lack of knowledge. You need to go through history of air combats from very beginning.
 
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randomradio

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You are forgetting that Tejas now has air to air refuelling and its combat radius is 500 km. Tejas air to ground capabilities is the best in IAF after Rafale so it cant be said that Tejas’ air to ground capabilities are secondary. It is a true multirole fighter. SAAW, ARM, Brahmos NG, Rudram, spice etc integration on Tejas are not meant for CAS but to strike enemy assets deep into enemy territory by crossing both LOC as well as LAC. If Tejas was to be required for just hitting unprotected targets, it would have been equipped with lighter weapons like SANT etc. No need for equipping such heavy weaponry on it. Interdiction missions are carried out deep inside enemy territory mate.
Tejas can perform all types of roles of a multirole fighter.
What you said in air superiority role is also not true. You mentioned only interceptor & escort typ role for Tejas and said it wont do air combat. However, it can perform air combat and is build for kills not mere air defense and escort.
Since, there is no 6th gen fighter as yet you are saying as if no fighter is able to do or none has ever done combat on its own. Thats gross lack of knowledge. You need to go through history of air combats from very beginning.

Air refuelling or not, you can't refuel over enemy territory. It's only meant to keep the LCA flying for longer, in certain cases.

For everything you wish LCA could do, it needs to break the laws of physics.
 
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Arpuism

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Air refuelling or not, you can't refuel over enemy territory. It's only meant to keep the LCA flying for longer, in certain cases.

For everything you wish LCA could do, it needs to break the laws of physics.
Air refuelling can be done over enemy territory if area has been secured by air superiority and SEAD/DEAD. If not, it can be done just before entering enemy territory. Combat radius of 500 km is more than entire length & width of many countries.

Whatever I said is not my wish, its what tejas can do. And do it effectively. Thats why such weapons ( anti airfield, anti radiation, high supersonic cruise missiles, aeroballastic missiles) have been or being planned to be integrated with Tejas. Neither, IAF nor MOD/HAL are idiots to plan heavy weapon & BVR & SFDR missiles integration if Tejas cant/meant to utilise them. I have never claimed that Tejas can strike in parallel universe or achieve kills of alien spaceships in another galaxy which will require it to break laws of physics. I have plainly said that Tejas can do interdiction as well as strike missions deep in enemy territory and perform aerial combats to achieve kills of enemy fighters as aggressor both in own territory as well as enemy territory. Its a true multirole platform.
 
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Sathya

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Air refuelling can be done over enemy territory if area has been secured by air superiority and SEAD/DEAD. If not, it can be done just before entering enemy territory. Combat radius of 500 km is more than entire length & width of many countries.

Whatever I said is not my wish, its what tejas can do. And do it effectively. Thats why such weapons ( anti airfield, anti radiation, high supersonic cruise missiles, aeroballastic missiles) have been or being planned to be integrated with Tejas. Neither, IAF nor MOD/HAL are idiots to plan heavy weapon & BVR & SFDR missiles integration if Tejas cant/meant to utilise them. I have never claimed that Tejas can strike in parallel universe or achieve kills of alien spaceships in another galaxy which will require it to break laws of physics. I have plainly said that Tejas can do interdiction as well as strike missions deep in enemy territory and perform aerial combats to achieve kills of enemy fighters as aggressor both in own territory as well as enemy territory. Its a true multirole platform.

U know the irony ..

LCA was leading in air to surface bomb tests than air - air.. &

LCH was leading in air - air than air - land..
Mistral is ready but not anti tank missile.

Lca will get certified in every weapons we have.. Will give flexibility to operate from any base and any weapons.
No other type of aircraft can do that.
Su 30 is used for testing and certification for many but still hammer can't be integrated.
 

Arpuism

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U know the irony ..

LCA was leading in air to surface bomb tests than air - air.. &

LCH was leading in air - air than air - land..
Mistral is ready but not anti tank missile.

Lca will get certified in every weapons we have.. Will give flexibility to operate from any base and any weapons.
No other type of aircraft can do that.
Su 30 is used for testing and certification for many but still hammer can't be integrated.
Its not irony. Su 30mki is primarily an air superiority fighter so it was bound to be topmost in that field. Tejas being true multirole would have been second to Su 30mki in air to air but came out first in air to ground. LCH is work in progress and Helina+ SANT will be integrated soon.
 

randomradio

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Air refuelling can be done over enemy territory if area has been secured by air superiority and SEAD/DEAD. If not, it can be done just before entering enemy territory. Combat radius of 500 km is more than entire length & width of many countries.

Whatever I said is not my wish, its what tejas can do. And do it effectively. Thats why such weapons ( anti airfield, anti radiation, high supersonic cruise missiles, aeroballastic missiles) have been or being planned to be integrated with Tejas. Neither, IAF nor MOD/HAL are idiots to plan heavy weapon & BVR & SFDR missiles integration if Tejas cant/meant to utilise them. I have never claimed that Tejas can strike in parallel universe or achieve kills of alien spaceships in another galaxy which will require it to break laws of physics. I have plainly said that Tejas can do interdiction as well as strike missions deep in enemy territory and perform aerial combats to achieve kills of enemy fighters as aggressor both in own territory as well as enemy territory. Its a true multirole platform.

If the enemy air force has been defeated, then anything can refuel anything anywhere.

For the rest, I can't argue against physics. The LCA is a 40-minute jet. It can't magically do 2 hours.
 

Arpuism

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If the enemy air force has been defeated, then anything can refuel anything anywhere.

For the rest, I can't argue against physics. The LCA is a 40-minute jet. It can't magically do 2 hours.
You are quoting wrong facts. Tejas endurance has been proven by flights to Bahrain & Malaysia. Air refuelling can also be done just before entering enemy territory.
Your knowledge regarding Tejas is completely false.
 
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randomradio

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30 minutes 3 times a day is what matters

Nothing special about that though. There are better jets around now. Like the Rafale can do 2.5 hours 5 times a day.
You are quoting wrong facts. Tejas endurance has been proven by flights to Bahrain & Malaysia. Air refuelling can also be done just before entering enemy territory.
Your knowledge regarding Tejas is completely false.

Yeah, dude... :rolleyes:

I forgot you are India stronk kinda guy.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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Nothing special about that though. There are better jets around now. Like the Rafale can do 2.5 hours 5 times a day.
73 LCA will be generating more hours along our western border in sky at station , than the whole of PAF combined, for 40 years. I hope we move forward and increase the order of Mk1A to atleast 2 more squads.

We have missed a lot of trains, shouldn't miss out here.
 

randomradio

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73 LCA will be generating more hours along our western border in sky at station , than the whole of PAF combined, for 40 years. I hope we move forward and increase the order of Mk1A to atleast 2 more squads.

We have missed a lot of trains, shouldn't miss out here.

It's the only reason why we are even buying LCA Mk1As, the Pakistanis are not expected to have comparatively better jets until 2035-40, when the F-16s begin replacement. The reality is the jet has failed to even meet specs set up in the 80s. So ADA is treating the Mk1 model as a TD for the Mk2.

In any case, if all it does is interception, it can do way more than just 3 sorties. It could easily do 7+ in a 24-hour period.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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It's the only reason why we are even buying LCA Mk1As, the Pakistanis are not expected to have comparatively better jets until 2035-40, when the F-16s begin replacement. The reality is the jet has failed to even meet specs set up in the 80s. So ADA is treating the Mk1 model as a TD for the Mk2.

In any case, if all it does is interception, it can do way more than just 3 sorties. It could easily do 7+ in a 24-hour period.
I am hoping CAS and QRA both duties will be given to them. That's why 3 sorties a day over long periods is decent enough. Plus we are setting up two engine servicing stations at the BRDs. Should help too.
 

randomradio

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I am hoping CAS and QRA both duties will be given to them. That's why 3 sorties a day over long periods is decent enough. Plus we are setting up two engine servicing stations at the BRDs. Should help too.

Yeah, LCA will do CAS and QRA. Even interdiction.

Even for CAS and such, it can still perform many sorties. It basically depends on how far away from the base it has to fly.

We can assume a 1.5 hours mission time and 2 hours downtime, basically the LCA can perform CAS every 3-4 hours. That's effectively 6 sorties at the minimum. For QRA it can even climb up to 10 'cause it will fly only for 20 min or so.

Alternatively, it can stay up in the air for a few hours with refuelling waiting for a call to strike.
 

HariPrasad

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It depends.

The Mk1A is supposed to fight an invader on our own soil. So it's gonna fight with the assistance of our own ISR complex alongside SAMs. Meaning, it's not meant to cross into enemy territory and fight on their terms like the more advanced jets will. Without offboard sensor support, it can't defeat threats like the J-20. On its own, it can only fight older jets on equal footing.

Also, the LCA Mk1A's job is not to fight and kill, it's to break enemy formations and send them home, forcing them to waste a sortie along with hours of preparation time. Once formations break, it takes time to regroup, giving enough time for the defenders to better prepare. So, when an enemy fighter sweep, meant to clear the airspace and make a path for strike jets, engages high endurance MKIs conducting CAP, the low endurance LCAs would be scrambled to outflank the fighter sweep and/or break the formation of the strike aircraft following the fighter sweep.

Otoh, when we are on the offensive, the MKIs perform fighter sweep, and the LCAs would escort our strike aircraft. And the LCAs role then is to prevent the enemy from breaking our formation, by, again, breaking their defensive formation.

It depends.

The Mk1A is supposed to fight an invader on our own soil. So it's gonna fight with the assistance of our own ISR complex alongside SAMs. Meaning, it's not meant to cross into enemy territory and fight on their terms like the more advanced jets will. Without offboard sensor support, it can't defeat threats like the J-20. On its own, it can only fight older jets on equal footing.

Also, the LCA Mk1A's job is not to fight and kill, it's to break enemy formations and send them home, forcing them to waste a sortie along with hours of preparation time. Once formations break, it takes time to regroup, giving enough time for the defenders to better prepare. So, when an enemy fighter sweep, meant to clear the airspace and make a path for strike jets, engages high endurance MKIs conducting CAP, the low endurance LCAs would be scrambled to outflank the fighter sweep and/or break the formation of the strike aircraft following the fighter sweep.

Otoh, when we are on the offensive, the MKIs perform fighter sweep, and the LCAs would escort our strike aircraft. And the LCAs role then is to prevent the enemy from breaking our formation, by, again, breaking their defensive formation.


Read this one. I said that it will defeat chinese planes in BVR. Simply, they will be visible from a far greater distance to Tejas than they can d pages pages for medicine distance Tejaswi superior as a can detectetect Tejas. Tejas can fire bvr much before Chinese can fire anything at Tejas. So far as J20 is concern, it was detected by MKIs at about 250 to 300 km away. J 20 has only frontal stealth with canards in certain position. It is so called 5th generation plane.

 
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