LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

randomradio

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@AbRaj

So in your opinion , if we face an air Raid from across the LAC ,
Which plane we should scramble

If F 16s could be successfully stopped by MiG 21 , then why cannot J 10 be stopped by LCA Tejas

For CAPs too we cannot use Rafales and Sukhois and Mirage 2000

In this respect , Pakistani strategy is simple and Clear

They want to have many JF 17s as BARCAP and stop all IAF intruders


Pakistan was waiting for an indigenous Chinese Engine

Al 31 is not allowed for Pakistan by RUSSIA

Any frontline jet will be scrambled. And the LCA is suitable for BVR against any jet, including the J-10.
Pl 10 is based on upgraded pl 8 which was based on python 2-3 series

It's their own design.
 
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randomradio

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If j10 is that good ,why Pakistan took a while for ordering them(assuming they are ordering them now).
WHY they even entered with JF17,they could have gone for j10 straight away.

J-10C was cleared for export only recently, I believe in 2019. JF-17 began in the mid 90s.
 

AbRaj

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If j10 is that good ,why Pakistan took a while for ordering them(assuming they are ordering them now).
WHY they even entered with JF17,they could have gone for j10 straight away.
Same reason why they are not Ordering F35 or J20/35 or Su 35/57. ie availability and affordability.
FC 1 is the cheapest multirole, BVR capable, supersonic fighter available in the market. It’s the Chinese copy of F16 concept.
It’s a great achievement in itself to design a jet with that much capability in so cheap. Only China can do that, thanks to its well established supply lines and Economy of mass production.
 
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AbRaj

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Python is tested. Python and derby will be the primary weaponry of the tejas. Python 5 is already tested on tejas.
r-73,asraam,r-77 and astra will be added on later.
Right now at its present state Tejas can take down all of Pakistani inventory except the blk 52's. In Chinese inventory everything except the J-11 BSH, J-10BS, J-16,Su-35 and J-20
I think they are still stuck with Flutter and vibration issue. Good news if it’s rectified.
But ASRAAM integration is closer than you think.


Of coarse it can, provided if it’s used optimally.
 

Aditya b7777

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I think they are still stuck with Flutter and vibration issue. Good news if it’s rectified.
But ASRAAM integration is closer than you think.


Of coarse it can, provided if it’s used optimally.
Integration issues have been sorted out months ago with Python 5
 

Sathya

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FE7g_JIUYAIrbWU.jpeg
 

HariPrasad

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It’s hilarious to compare (so confidently) a product, OEM of which doesn’t give any specs barring few pamphlets, with a product that is shown

OEM does not give specification, Open source information is not correct , yet you know the exact capabilty. You must have some inside infromation directly from Chengdu, right?

Go to the websites of HAL and SAAB and read it yourself
Yes, I read both. They praises their own aircraft. Nowhere I could see how Gripen C is superior to Tejas. We were talking about Tejas MK1A.

Python 5 is a WVRAAM with HOBS capability like R73/74M, ASRAAM, AIM 9X, IRIST or even PL 10.
Only thing differs is their ability to get cued from HMDS, which was first achieved by Soviets and not Israelis. Python used to be superior in pulling out High Gs due to the availability of large control surface. Modern SRAAMS like IRIST and AIM 9X achieve that more efficiently by TVC
Python is not only about agility , which ofcource is top class but also about speed , seeker and its Anti jamming capabilities. All these capabilities make it the best WVR of the world , far ahead of sny Chinese shit with which even Pakistanis faces many issues.
 
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HariPrasad

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If j10 is that good ,why Pakistan took a while for ordering them(assuming they are ordering them now).
WHY they even entered with JF17,they could have gone for j10 straight away.

J 10 is a shit and aerodynamic desaster and that is why one can see major visual change in every variant ind airframe. 9 J10 had fallen in accident in a short span of 2 years. Inspite of using powerful rngine like Al 31, its take of timing, distance are much inferior so as maneuverability of A and B variants. So far as advance softwares and handling is concern, Tejas is far, far superior to any Chinese plane.
people have a tendency to hype substandard Chinese stuff.
 

AbRaj

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Python is not only about agility , which ofcource is top class but also about speed , seeker and its Anti jamming capabilities. All these capabilities make it the best WVR of the world , far ahead of sny Chinese shit with which even Pakistanis faces many issues.
LOL, Obviously Python with those large physical control surfaces , is slower than than TVC equipped Chinese, Russian and western counterparts during the endgame. But obviously you can’t understand that. and ECCM are not divine thing given to “Israel”. Almost all modern SRAAMs are equipped with ECM and ECCM capability including AIM 9X, IRIST and PL10.
Best according to whom ? It’s hilarious claim nonetheless. Reminds me of that famous “ISI is Lumber Ooone” claim.

PS: If you can’t digest the data tabulated in simplest possible way, I don’t expect you to understand basic physics too.
Keep comparing AMCA mark XXX with F22, J20, Su57 etc and beat the shit out of all thease fighter jets that actually exist with your Superior future AMCA/TEDBF/MWF designs.
 
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Arpit

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LOL, Obviously Python with those large physical control surfaces , is slower than than TVC equipped Chinese, Russian and western counterparts during the endgame. But obviously you can’t understand that. and ECCM are not divine thing given to “Israel”. Almost all modern SRAAMs are equipped with ECM and ECCM capability including AIM 9X, IRIST and PL10.
Best according to whom ? It’s hilarious claim nonetheless. Reminds me of that famous “ISI is Lumber Ooone” claim.

PS: If you can’t digest the data tabulated in simplest possible way, I don’t expect you to understand basic physics too.
Keep comparing AMCA mark XXX with F22, J20, Su57 etc and beat the shit out of all thease fighter jets that actually exist with your Superior future AMCA/TEDBF/MWF designs.
How TVC increase speed?
J10 has higher thrust engine and is Canard Delta configuration which provides better manoeuvrability than Cranked Delta of LCA.
And no, Dogfight is much more than just 1st turn. There are numerous tactical and evasive manoeuvres designed to deny the enemy the better ITR advantage.
For simple understanding, watch dogfight between M2000( better ITR, poor STR) with F16( Better STR, Ok ITR) on DCS with some knowledgeable pilots.

PS: low speed recovery is an safety feature that has nothing to do with any type of BVR or WVR combat.
It’s like saying Disk brakes will make Tata nano a Racing Car.
So can you enlighten us on the availability of J-10C? And how much it can sustain high-tempo ops?

And DCS as a benchmark,, such arguments. Facepalm.
 
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Arpit

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Can you expand on better CCM and HMDS?
Yeah, but the J-10C has more power and greater agility than the LCA Mk1/A. The J-10 also comes with a very advanced CCM and HMDS. Even with the ALSR, the J-10C has better minimums and maximums to exploit anyway. In any case, while the J-10C is the better platform for a WVR fight, pilot training is much more important and that's where we have the advantage.

The LCA Mk2 will be a step up over the J-10C.

Same reason why they are not Ordering F35 or J20/35 or Su 35/57. ie availability and affordability.
FC 1 is the cheapest multirole, BVR capable, supersonic fighter available in the market. It’s the Chinese copy of F16 concept.
It’s a great achievement in itself to design a jet with that much capability in so cheap. Only China can do that, thanks to its well established supply lines and Economy of mass production.
Okay, I am assuming the main role of JF-17 going to be CAP, and sustaining high flying hours throughout the year. As they assume the role of CAP from F-16s.

The same case with Tejas Mk1A,,, it takes the role of CAP and interception from Mirage-2000 and MiG-21(Pathankot, Sri Nagar, and Halwara). But to do that, you have to fly 400+ hours per year during peacetime. And I have every faith, and as shown in Gagan Shakti, Tejas is very capable of even performing 8 sorties a day during high tempo.

And as things progress, in a force mix (and as we know SOP changed after Balakot), the role of Tejas be very much to get NCTR cues and transfer it to Rafale and MKIs using CEC/ODL to launch Meteor, SFDR, Astra-1, or other BVRAAMs to get them cold and create a fur-ball.

But coming back to JF-17,, here is a quote from quwa
The JF-17 reportedly has an airframe life of 3,000 hours. If the PAF is flying each JF-17 for 150 to 200 hours per year, then the JF-17 has a service life of 15 to 20 years.

Yeah, JF-17 might work for the CAP role, if they achieve like 300-400 hours, but at the current rate, it is nowhere to assume such a role,,, and I will be very much happy to pay extra for a jet, that able to give good CAP operations, and later part of the battle to assume the role of CAS, and free up Rafale, Mirages, MKIs for the air-superiority and DPSA role.

As per sources, an initial conservative estimate of 9000 flying hours has been arrived at. Each of the in-service Tejas units are fitted with a Health Up Monitoring System (HUMS) to measure airframe fatigue and come up with revised estimates for service life. By all indicators this estimation of 9000 hours is going to be revised upwards! This is nothing new.

Cheap is not always the best, even we can do that, lol. There is nothing special China has done it, actually, we had done it in Tejas IOC.
 
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STEPHEN COHEN

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Chinese Airbases are 200 KM away from LAC

Pakistani Airbases like Skardu are even much closer

More than anything else what matters for a fighter aircraft is the
" Altitude of Business " so as to Be Able and be Present to
engage the enemy aircraft

Which Airforce has a Larger Availability of planes , for CAPs and Offensive missions will win

Numbers will matter more than
Specifications
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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I dont know what is going to be our Strategy but I believe that unless we hit Both Pakistan and China in OTHER places and Sectors , only then IAF can cause damage to the enemy

Otherwise If we keep reacting to attacks from Across LAC and LOC
IAF will always be scrambling and Reacting.

Against Pakistan we must hit across Punjab and Sindh

And against China , If they attack in Ladakh , we must hit across Arunachal and Sikkim
 
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Arpit

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Chinese Airbases are 200 KM away from LAC

Pakistani Airbases like Skardu are even much closer

More than anything else what matters for a fighter aircraft is the
" Altitude of Business " so as to Be Able and be Present to
engage the enemy aircraft

Which Airforce has a Larger Availability of planes , for CAPs and Offensive missions will win

Numbers will matter more than
Specifications
numbers always matter, but I don't see PLAAF or PAF's jets in number which negate the requirement of high flying hours. I mean how many JF-17 operated by PAF, 130-140? Is that enough for peacetime ops or for high tempo ops ( and we need to remember the high tempo ops/CAP even by PAF over Islamabad and Karachi was done by F-16, not by JF-17)?

During the aftermath of Balakot, the main escort was F-16, while JF-17 was protecting the rear, if PAF have so much confidence in JF-17 then why was the case? And even for the future, once Tejas Mk1A starts performing BARCAPs over LoC and LAC, while jets like MKI and Rafale waiting for furball, it be devastating. PLAAF and PAF well know this, once furball starts, there be no way out for them. There are a lot of overestimation, PL-10 this, PL-15 that. While negating your own capabilities of ASRAAM, Meteor, and futuristic SFDR. And I seriously don't know what is so special about PL-10 and 15, does PL-15 increase the NEZ by several magnitudes?


For, future plans, with Mk1A IAF just need to increase the tempo during peacetime over LoC and LAC, and let's see how many crashes happen in Tibet and PoK.
 
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AbRaj

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How TVC increase speed?
Where did I said that?
All I’m saying is TVC is more energy efficient than huge control surfaces of Python.
So can you enlighten us on the availability of J-10C? And how much it can sustain high-tempo ops?
Again I avoided comparison of J 10 altogether, because Chengdu (or another other Chinese OEMs) don’t provide any details about their products.
And DCS as a benchmark,, such arguments. Facepalm.
Benchmark ?
It’s a SIMULATOR
which has actual data of many fighter jets. It’s very realistic.
 

Arpit

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I dont know what is going to be our Strategy but I believe that unless we hit Both Pakistan and China in OTHER places and Sectors , only then IAF can cause damage to the enemy

Otherwise If we keep reacting to attacks from Across LAC and LOC
IAF will always be scrambling and Reacting.

Against Pakistan we must hit across Punjab and Sindh

And against China , If they attack in Ladakh , we must hit across Arunachal and Sikkim
We actually lost the initiative once ordered to not to perform BARCAP over PoK according to SoPs.
 

Arpit

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Where did I said that?
All I’m saying is TVC is more energy efficient than huge control surfaces of Python.
So you are suggesting Aster-15/30 is slower than Barak-8. How the f**k you claim that without any data, lot of things matter even the propulsion system.

Again I avoided comparison of J 10 altogether, because Chengdu (or another other Chinese OEMs) don’t provide any details about their products.
So, why claim things superior or inferior?

Benchmark ?
It’s a SIMULATOR
which has actual data of many fighter jets. It’s very realistic.
Ohh, I am playing DSC since I was a kid, and I didn't had the money to buy HOTAS, pedals, and TrackIR. And I used to go to my friends place to play that.

And assuming PAF shared data with Eagle Dynamics, and DSC showing exact flight characteristics is hilarious at best.
 
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AbRaj

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So you are suggesting Aster-15/30 is slower than Barak-8. How the f**k you claim that without any data, lot of things matter even the propulsion system.
I will say that B8 is more energy efficient design than A15/30. That’s why despite smaller size, it has more range than A series.
And definitely Aster will be loosing its energy/speed much faster rate than B8 during engagement of the target.
So, why claim things superior or inferior?
Which Claim ?
1. Gripen C is superior than LCA Tejas claim ? ( because official spec sheets says so)
Or
2. TVC is Superior than Physical Control Surfaces ?
(Because TVC is Superior/More Energy Efficient method than Control Surface that creates higher Drag during the flights.)

3. J20 has higher thrust than Tejas and/or Canard Delta has better manoeuverability Cranked Delta ? Because HAL/ADA says so.
Ohh, I am playing DSC since I was a kid, and I didn't had the money to buy HOTAS, padels, and TrackIR. And I used to go to my friends place to play that.

And assuming PAF shared data with Eagle Dynamics, and DSC showing exact flight characteristics is hilarious at best.
Yes, JF 17 data is provided by PAC. Also even F16, F18, F18 Mirage ( although not sure if it’s V or 2000) and Mig 29, Su 27 etc models are based on authentic data and therefore provide quite realistic performance.

BTW I asked him to watch videos of Experts like Ex Pilot etc and not to do it himself . They( Ex-pilots) do say that it’s quite realistic and actually has better graphic quality than most training simulators. Also Guys that come on channels like Growling Sidewinder etc do explain each expect of fight in logical but simple terms.
 
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Arpit

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I will say that B8 is more energy efficient design than A15/30. That’s why despite smaller size, it has more range than A series.
And definitely Aster will be loosing its energy/speed much faster rate than B8 during engagement of the target.

Because TVC is Superior/More Energy Efficient method than Control Surface that creates higher Drag during the flights.
This is what you have said

"LOL, Obviously Python with those large physical control surfaces , is slower than than TVC equipped Chinese, Russian and western counterparts during the endgame. But obviously you can’t understand that. and ECCM are not divine thing given to “Israel”. Almost all modern SRAAMs are equipped with ECM and ECCM capability including AIM 9X, IRIST and PL10."

Now are you going back to compare control surfaces vs TVC, instead of missiles? And don't claim things about Aster which you don't know about.

Yes, JF 17 data is provided by PAC. Also even F16, F18, F18 Mirage ( although not sure if it’s V or 2000) and Mig 29, Su 27 etc models are based on authentic data and therefore provide quite realistic performance.

BTW I asked him to watch videos of Experts like Ex Pilot etc and not to do it himself . They( Ex-pilots) do say that it’s quite realistic and actually has better graphic quality than most training simulators. Also Guys that come on channels like Growling Sidewinder etc do explain each expect of fight in logical but simple terms.

I have no reply to this, but just to laugh that PAF shared data of JF-17 with Eagle Dynamics.
 
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