LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

randomradio

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It's difficult to believe that Tejas was Shit in Aug-2014 and while SP 01 was given to IAF -Jan 2015. There was an issue with IAF accepting Tejas, There were deep pockets in IAF to ignore LCA ... You can find issues with F35 but the USA has gone as per their induction plan. Now with active social media participants, these Dalals are getting banged nicely ...

Atmanirbhar Bharat: Indigenous LCA to foster local industry, says R Madhavan CMD, HAL
View of a former CMD of HAL

Sharing his view with Financial Express Online, former CMD of HAL Dr RK Tyagi says, “It will create an excellent ecosystem with HAL, BEL, L&T and other 160 plus Indian Companies and S/MSMEs.” Adding, “As Chairman HAL, IOC (initial operational clearance) was achieved on Dec 20, 2013. And, we delivered first Series Production aircraft (SP-1) to Air Chief Arup Raha and it was in the presence of Manohar Parrikar, the then Defence Minister on Jan 17, 2015 (in just 13 months).”

Regardless of whether it's a failed design or not, it will help the industry. The point is whether it will succeed or fail in the battlefield, 'cause the repercussions there are different and far, far greater than making some businessmen rich.

With both LCA and F-35, money, politics and pride are playing a decisive factor. In our case it works out 'cause the enemy is weaker and an upgraded jet is a suitable Mig-21 replacement, in the US' case, they got the money to make an alternative, which is happening. India's just made a begger's choice.

Anyway in 2014, the amount of information out was limited. We only had the IOC-2 at the time and the journey to FOC was actually very hard. It still doesn't change the fact that the design is inadequate. We will most likely see the Mk1/As turned into drones during their MLUs, we can't afford risking pilot lives on them by that time.
 

randomradio

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That is what happens when you have zero interest in supporting the R&D team.
Several times they changed the requirements and tried to kill the program.
Look at the PAF ,JF 17 is nothing but still they were confident in accepting that jet

All that's BS. The R&D team itself confirmed that they didn't face any significant challenges from the IAF and GoI in both requirements and finance. In fact, if you read actual history, the R&D team kept the IAF out no matter how much the IAF was willing to support the team. They didn't want fighter jocks interfering in the business of the nerds.
 

Sathya

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I don't think Hal will get any order soon other than LCA Mk1A .
Now the tussle is between Rafale vs Mk2 MWF to be made in HAL.

When Rafale is allocated to DRAL , HAL will be left with MWF. Which they will proactively follow it up.
 

_Anonymous_

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I don't think Hal will get any order soon other than LCA Mk1A .
Now the tussle is between Rafale vs Mk2 MWF to be made in HAL.

When Rafale is allocated to DRAL , HAL will be left with MWF. Which they will proactively follow it up.
Says who ? They're actively involved in assembling AMCA - Mk1. It's another matter that the numbers required would be a couple of dozen.

Another friction point seems to be the MWF where from 201+ a couple of years ago , the commitment seems to have gone down to 140 nos. Whether the IAF's applying pressure on the GoI to see the MRFA tender thru at the earliest or some other development we're unaware of has cropped up , one can't say but if the numbers go down to what it is today , it's not a good development.
 
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Sathya

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Says who ? They're actively involved in assembling AMCA - Mk1. It's another matter that the numbers required would be a couple of dozen.

Another friction point seems to be the MWF where from 201+ a couple of years ago , the commitment seems to have gone down to 140 nos. Whether the IAF's applying pressure on the GoI to see the MRFA tender thru at the earliest or some other development we're unaware of has cropped up , one can't say but if the numbers go down to what it is today , it's not a good development.

Numbers of LCA were calculated together as Mk1 + MK2 I think...

Then it became Mk1 + Mk1A + MK2 -> MWF

I forgot the numbers.. Will have to look back..
 

AbRaj

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Numbers of LCA were calculated together as Mk1 + MK2 I think...

Then it became Mk1 + Mk1A + MK2 -> MWF

I forgot the numbers.. Will have to look back..
You can’t beat IAF is numbers juggling. It’s an art they have mastered by practice and patience and dedication.
 

Sathya

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You can’t beat IAF is numbers juggling. It’s an art they have mastered by practice and patience and dedication.

There are many changes..
Lca became Mk1 + Mk1A
Then MK2 became medium weight fighter.

I think sancho kept track of numbers.

Initially I had thought of big numbers. But someone clarified that number is of all LCA together.

Anyways When we order GE414 engines 3 years prior to intended delivery date , we ll come to know the number and timing of order.

However there is catch. We got only a few samples in the intended 99 GE 414 engines.

Our initial plan was also not higher than 100 Mk2. However now it's MWF, don't know how much we ll order.
 
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_Anonymous_

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There are many changes..
Lca became Mk1 + Mk1A
Then MK2 became medium weight fighter.

I think sancho kept track of numbers.

Initially I had thought of big numbers. But someone clarified that number is of all LCA together.
As the of 1 year ago it was 123 Mk1 + Mk1a & 201 Mk2/MWF including trainers. These are IAF quoted numbers. Now they've revised it . Multiple articles & YT defence oriented channels claimed a couple of weeks back that the new incumbent IAF chief wasn't referring to Mk2 at all when enumerating potential fighter aircrafts to be procured in this decade. You can check YT for confirmation.
 
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Sathya

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As the of 1 year ago it was 123 Mk1 + Mk1a & 201 Mk2/MWF including trainers. These are IAF quoted numbers. Now they've revised it . Multiple articles & YT defence oriented channels claimed a couple of weeks back that the new incumbent IAF chief wasn't referring to Mk2 at all when enumerating potential fighter aircrafts to be procured in this decade. You can check YT for confirmation.

Something is going on.
Hellfire also tweeted something about it, will look up for it.
But I believe there won't be any change in numbers because of our massive requirements.
We have increased the production of Mk1A to minimum of 16 / year.
And after 5 years, we need something to make. AMCA is intended to be made by private sector. Tedbf won't be ready that fast I think.
I doubt Ghatak will also be ready by then.
 

_Anonymous_

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Something is going on.
Hellfire also tweeted something about it, will look up for it.
But I believe there won't be any change in numbers because of our massive requirements.
As of now , no definite confirmation on Mk2 / MWF numbers from IAF in the recent days. It's not a healthy sign.
We have increased the production of Mk1A to minimum of 16 / year.
And after 5 years, we need something to make. AMCA is intended to be made by private sector.
HAL is lead system integrator for AMCA Mk1. AMCA Mk2 would be integrated by a JV involving HAL.
Tedbf won't be ready that fast I think.
Post 2030. That's HAL's baby.
I doubt Ghatak will also be ready by then.
Post 2030. I don't think this would involve HAL in any form. In all likelihood it's going to be the Pvt sector.
 

AbRaj

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There are many changes..
Lca became Mk1 + Mk1A
Then MK2 became medium weight fighter.

I think sancho kept track of numbers.

Initially I had thought of big numbers. But someone clarified that number is of all LCA together.

Anyways When we order GE414 engines 3 years prior to intended delivery date , we ll come to know the number and timing of order.

However there is catch. We got only a few samples in the intended 99 GE 414 engines.

Our initial plan was also not higher than 100 Mk2. However now it's MWF, don't know how much we ll order.
There is a reason Sancho got so frustrated with the organisation called IAF, so much so that he quit often sounded more pessimistic about them than even a diehard Lahori.
Even Anonymous too I think.

IAF top brass behave more like property dealers.
 

randomradio

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But I believe there won't be any change in numbers because of our massive requirements.

Merely count the number of squadrons of new jets.

MKI = 13 squadrons
Mk1/A = 6 squadrons
Mk2 = 6 squadrons
AMCA = 7 squadrons
Rafale/MRFA = 2+6 = 8 squadrons

These are the numbers already committed and have the highest chance of happening. That's 40 squadrons. So the remaining is 2 squadrons for 42 or 5 for 45.

Those 2-5 squadrons should be shared between Rafale and Mk2.

Things change big time with drones.
 
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_Anonymous_

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Searched for this tweet till now.,
Please give your interpretation s.

This is a reply to Hvtf tweet about Mk2.

That's probably in a different context. Since the original tweet is deleted we can only speculate unless Hellfire clarifies. In all probability it has to do with the powerplant of the Mk2.

I do believe we've procured a few F-414 for a few prototypes.
 
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thinkingcap81

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Possibly IAF chief has quietened down about Mk2 so that he can demand 114 MRFA. He knows that Mk2 in good numbers will anyway be imposed on IAF, so why not ask for the best 4++ gen aircraft so that it can come in the shortest possible time? Mk2 will also be a good addition to the force mix.
 

_Anonymous_

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Looks like that's the gameplan. Though the AoN for the MRFA is expected to come early next year . From there to signing the deal would take a good 6-7 yrs if everything proceeds smoothly in a timely fashion. That's 2028-29 timelines by which time the Mk2 would be expected to enter mass production.
 

Sathya

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That's probably in a different context. Since the original tweet is deleted we can only speculate unless Hellfire clarifies. In all probability it has to do with the powerplant of the Mk2.

I do believe we've procured a few F-414 for a few prototypes.

Yea, I also believed it got to do with GE 414 engines. But reading again..
It may also denote some engine JV or kaveri dry.. Is in pipeline for New jet - Tedbf / Drone - Ghatak making Mk2 less likely option to be exercised. .
I am overthinking here..

MWF getting orders is logical and more probable.
 

randomradio

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Searched for this tweet till now.,
Please give your interpretation s.

This is a reply to Hvtf tweet about Mk2.


His tweet is in referrence to MRFA. He is talking about how, if we use American engines on the LCA, we will be forced to buy the SH as well. Since it's difficult to use the engine without American support, they can use it to pressure us in MRFA.

But I don't believe that's gonna happen. GE has a long history in India for them to break contract obligations. And, as far as the IAF is concerned, this pound of flesh, which needs to be extracted, can be extracted in many other areas where India is still lacking, for a win-win. Plus the SH has a greater chance at winning the MRCBF than the Rafale in any case, so the Americans still have a chance at selling their jets even if there's no chance in the IAF.

Anyway, even if the IAF feels the pressure, it's gonna be felt after the LCAs are in service in large numbers, ie, post 2030, when the Teens are no longer gonna be in production, so it doesn't affect MRFA. We will likely see this pressure being applied during the Su-57/S-500 vs F-35 fight after 2025 though.

Also, if we consider 250 LCAs and 40 AMCAs using GE engines, followed by a contract for 118 SHs, then half of air force will end up being at the mercy of the US. We are not going to put ourselves in such a situation.
 
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TARGET

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Possibly IAF chief has quietened down about Mk2 so that he can demand 114 MRFA. He knows that Mk2 in good numbers will anyway be imposed on IAF, so why not ask for the best 4++ gen aircraft so that it can come in the shortest possible time? Mk2 will also be a good addition to the force mix.
Not even 36 Rafales...we want 114 MRFA, I am not sure where is the budget for this :rolleyes:... Are we going close all our indigenous programs?