Kolkata-class and Visakhapatnam-class Destroyers: News & Discussions

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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India
This is the new 8 VLS you are seeing of this BrahMos missile. I have a proof 🧾
Which has New 8 VLS installed in it. She is also in the INS Rajput D-5,Class Destroyer
INS Rajput armament .. anti surface and anti ship missile
Anti-surface:
4 × BrahMos supersonic missiles
2 × SS-N-2D Styx AShM missiles
INS Rajput D-51 has exactly the same 4 missile launcher. Of Brahmos missile
It is expected to be a long-range missile.
Upgraded BRAHMOS MISSILE
Surface/Sea Platform - 650 km (400 mi; 350 nmi)
To be upgraded to 800 km (500 mi; 430 nmi)View attachment 19896

Not VLS, those are caps that cover the torpedo tubes.
 

Milspec

सर्वदा शक्तिशाली; सर्वत्र विजय
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Dec 2, 2017
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Not VLS, those are caps that cover the torpedo tubes.
Came across this at google maps,
1622393391291.png


Four ships all roughly 530ft, seems like D66-69?
 

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
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INS Kochi and UAE Navy corvette UAES Al Dhafra in India-UAE naval exercise Zayed Talwar 2021 off Abu Dhabi.

Making a case for Indo-Abrahamic accord​

An Egyptian scholar, Mohammed Soliman, has recently written about the significance of what he calls the emerging “Indo-Abrahamic Accord” and its trans-regional implications to the west of India. Soliman’s concept builds on the normalisation of Israel’s relations with the UAE and Bahrain under the so-called Abraham Accords signed last August in Washington. The naming of the accords was arguably an inspired choice to denote the shared origins of the Jewish and Islamic religions. The UAE and Bahrain were followed by Sudan and Morocco in signing the Abraham Accords.


Although Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994) had established diplomatic relations with Israel earlier, the Abraham Accords are widely seen as making a definitive breakthrough in the relations between Israel and the Arabs. Soliman sees the Israel-UAE relationship as having acquired a character independent of Israel’s relations with Palestine and a promise of expansive political, economic and technological cooperation.


Soliman also points to the transformation of India’s relations with the UAE and Israel under Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Although Delhi had relations with Abu Dhabi and Tel Aviv for many years, they certainly have acquired political depth and strategic character under Modi. Soliman sees this trilateral relationship as the potential nucleus of a wider regional coalition.



Soliman underlines the converging interests between India, the UAE, and Israel amidst Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s assertive claims for the leadership of the Islamic world. The new geopolitical churn is also driven by Pakistan’s growing alignment with Turkey and its alienation from its traditionally strong supporters in the Arab Gulf — the UAE and Saudi Arabia.


The fragile efforts since the end of the Cold War at normalising relations between Delhi and Ankara have also broken down, thanks to Erdogan’s hostility towards India. Erdogan has been championing Pakistan’s case on Kashmir after India changed the territorial status quo of the state in August 2019. At Pakistan’s behest, Erdogan is also blocking India’s entry into the Nuclear Suppliers Group.


Turkey’s quest for regional dominance has also widened the Indo-Abrahamic convergence to the eastern Mediterranean to include Greece and Cyprus. The discovery of new hydrocarbon resources in the eastern Mediterranean, the renewed territorial disputes between Ankara and Athens, and the Turkish quest for regional dominance has drawn Greece and the UAE closer.

Greece has also looked towards India to enhance bilateral security cooperation. India’s external affairs minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar was in Athens at the end of June and the two sides have begun defence exchanges. Greece’s European partners like France, which have a big stake in the Mediterranean as well as the Arab Gulf, have taken an active interest in countering Turkey’s regional ambitions.


Many in Delhi will shake their heads in disapproval at the framing of India’s Middle East possibilities in religious terms. But the idea has considerable traction among groups that are otherwise deeply antagonistic.


For example, many in Pakistan have long convinced themselves of a “Hindu-Yehudi conspiracy” to undermine its very existence. They could throw in the Greeks and add Christians to the conspiracy. Those in India that view the Middle East through the religious prism might believe Hindus and Jews are natural allies in the region. But the deepening of Indian and Israeli ties with moderate Arab states spoils the religious paradigm that so many in India and Pakistan would love to believe in.


The idea of an Indo-Abrahamic accord also troubles those in South Asia who view the Middle East through such secular tropes as anti-imperialism and the contradictions between Israel and Arabs. The intra-regional contradictions in West Asia have always been sharper than those between the region and the external powers.


Arabs do empathise with the Palestinians’ plight, but many of them are no longer willing to let the Palestinians veto their normalisation of relations with Israel. Nor do all Arabs see the conflict with Israel as the principal contradiction in the region. For some, non-Arab powers like Iran and Turkey pose a bigger threat than Israel.


Viewing the region either exclusively through the religious or secular lens misses the complex interplay between competing versions of a common faith, the quest for profit, and diverging political interests within the region. Erdogan’s support for the Muslim Brotherhood, which seeks to overthrow the current political order in the region, has deeply angered the governments of Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE.


Fighting the Brotherhood and balancing Turkey have become existential challenges for Cairo, Riyadh, and Abu Dhabi. Although Erdogan’s Islamic radicalism might appeal to the Arab street, the Arab elites are not about to let Erdogan reimpose the Ottoman imperium over their lands.

As the current turmoil reconfigures the region’s geography, its traditional subdivision into the Gulf, West Asia, and North Africa makes little sense today. Nor can the region be separated from Southern Europe and the Mediterranean at one end and the Subcontinent on the other. The familiar regional institutions like the Arab League and the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation might endure but are incapable of addressing the region’s contradictions.


One of the unintended consequences of Erdogan’s overweening regional ambition, his alienation of Israel as well as moderate Arabs, his conflict with Greece, and his embrace of Pakistan is the extraordinary opportunity for Delhi to widen India’s reach to the west of the Subcontinent.


Soliman asks if the deepening engagement between India, the UAE and Israel can be converted into a formal coalition. To be sure, there are many areas like defence, aerospace and digital innovation where the three countries can pool their resources and coordinate development policies. Coordination with Saudi Arabia will certainly remain a high priority for the three nations. Meanwhile, others like Greece are eager for greater cooperation with the coalition.


If there is one country that can give substantive depth to the Indo-Abrahamic Accord it is Egypt. Having ousted the Muslim Brotherhood from power in 2014, the Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi is trying to revitalise the nation’s economy and reclaim its regional leadership role. Located at the cusp of Mediterranean Europe, Africa, and Asia, Egypt is the very heart of the Greater Middle East.


Independent India’s engagement with the region in the 1950s was centred on a close partnership with Egypt. The legendary special relationship between Jawaharlal Nehru and Gamal Abdel Nasser was instrumental in promoting Afro-Asian unity and founding the Non-Aligned Movement. It was not all about solidarity though. Nehru and Nasser visualised a strategic partnership and sought to build a joint fighter aircraft and develop a jet engine. If Delhi and Cairo lost each other in recent decades, Modi can rebuild the strategic partnership jointly with el-Sisi who is calling for the construction of a “New Republic” in Egypt.


The opportunities that are coming India’s way to the west of the Subcontinent are as consequential as those that have recently emerged in the east. Much in the manner that the “Indo-Pacific” has transformed the way India thinks about the east, the notion of a “Greater Middle East” can provide a huge fillip to India’s engagement with the extended neighbourhood to the west.

Maybe what this article says is really at play here. Is there a new India-UAE-Israel trilateral coming up ? @RISING SUN The signs are there.
 

RISING SUN

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Dec 3, 2017
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Maybe what this article says is really at play here. Is there a new India-UAE-Israel trilateral coming up ? @RISING SUN The signs are there.
It might be the case of India assistance in bringing middle East and Israel on friendly terms, though not overtly. India is not US, but it does have the pull in Israel politically and in Middle east owing to its working class and huge Islamic followers. Who knows?
 

RISING SUN

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Dec 3, 2017
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It's shouldn't be missed on anyone that it was India who was allowed for flights over middle eastern world while heading to Israeli land in the days when it was considered dreaming.
 
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Gautam

Team StratFront
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INS Visakhapatnam. Video uploaded in April 2021


The MF-STAR & LW-08D radars has been integrated. The guns, RBU-6000s, EW etc. are all in place. I you look closely you will notice the ship is releasing exhaust. The ship's engines are running. The ship has been in sea trials since early this year. It should enter service later this year.

INS Vizag is an exact copy of the Kolkata class with an revised bridge, relocated sonar & improved electronics. The gun is the 76mm OTO Melara as seen on the Kolkata. Initially there was a delay in supply of the BAE gun so the Navy went with the 76mm, hoping to have it replaced soon. Now it seems the deal with BAE has fallen through, so all the Vizag class ships may end up getting the 76mm OTO.

The Navy should've placed an order for an additional 3 Kolkata class before the production line was shut. At least those ships would have been commissioned sooner & the ships could be improved/upgraded incrementally. But they decided to wait to get a ship with better firepower. Now 5 years after the last destroyer, INS Chennai (D65), was commissioned they Navy has a new ship with the exact same firepower.

They could still rectify things by putting out a 2nd batch order for the Vizag class. But nope, they will play the waiting game until the P-18 class is ready which could take longer than 5 years. Brilliant production line management.
 

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
12,542
9,445
Tripura, NE, India
INS Visakhapatnam. Video uploaded in April 2021


The MF-STAR & LW-08D radars has been integrated. The guns, RBU-6000s, EW etc. are all in place. I you look closely you will notice the ship is releasing exhaust. The ship's engines are running. The ship has been in sea trials since early this year. It should enter service later this year.

INS Vizag is an exact copy of the Kolkata class with an revised bridge, relocated sonar & improved electronics. The gun is the 76mm OTO Melara as seen on the Kolkata. Initially there was a delay in supply of the BAE gun so the Navy went with the 76mm, hoping to have it replaced soon. Now it seems the deal with BAE has fallen through, so all the Vizag class ships may end up getting the 76mm OTO.

The Navy should've placed an order for an additional 3 Kolkata class before the production line was shut. At least those ships would have been commissioned sooner & the ships could be improved/upgraded incrementally. But they decided to wait to get a ship with better firepower. Now 5 years after the last destroyer, INS Chennai (D65), was commissioned they Navy has a new ship with the exact same firepower.

They could still rectify things by putting out a 2nd batch order for the Vizag class. But nope, they will play the waiting game until the P-18 class is ready which could take longer than 5 years. Brilliant production line management.

Something I've been thinking about:

Propulsion & electric power set up of the Kolkata class destroyers:

Combined Gas and Gas (COGAG) system comprising 4 × Zorya-Mashproekt DT-59 reversible gas turbines producing 16.55 MW each. So a total shaft power of 66.2 MW.

The turbines are also linked with alternators to generate electrical power. The efficiency of alternators are around 60-75% range. Even assuming the worst possible efficiency we end up with 39.72 MWe, it should be more than that. The electrical power will be used to operate radars, sonars, weapons, life support equipment etc.

Propulsion & electric power set up of the Vizag class destroyers:

Combined Gas and Gas (COGAG) system comprising 4 × Zorya-Mashproekt DT-59 reversible gas turbines producing 16.55 MW each. Shaft power of 66.2 MW & electrical power of >40 MWe.

Now this is where it gets interesting. The Vizags also have 2 boost diesel engines & 4 electrical generators. The diesel engines are Bergen KVM-diesel engines producing 9,900 hp/7.4 MW shaft power each. 2 of those will get us 14.4 MW shaft power. GRSE makes these engines in India under license at their diesel engine factory in Ranchi.
1200.jpg


That takes the total shaft power of the Vizag class to 81 MW. To give you some context the American Ticonderoga-class cruiser (9800 tons) & Arleigh Burke class destroyers (9700 tons) have 64 MW & 78 MW propulsion system. The Vizag reportedly is 7300 tons in displacement, moves at the same speed as the 2 American ships & has the same range as the American destroyer ( >4000 nmi).

So what's going on ? Why do we need a more powerful propulsion set up to push around a lighter boat ? Are we certain that the Vizag class has a 7300 ton displacement ? It doesn't add up.

Also at 60% alternator efficiency 8.64 MWe of electrical power can be extracted from the diesel engine. That would push the total electrical power available to the ship to around 48-50 MWe. This amount of power will be available continuously if the diesel engines are running.

The 4 additional electrical generators on the Vizags are 1 MWe Wärtsilä WCM-1000 generator sets driving Cummins KTA50G3 engines and Kirloskar 1 MV AC generators. 1 Mega Volt of Alternating Current !! These generators are meant to produce a surge of electrical energy for DEWs probably. They don't need to be keep running continuously for other ship activities.