Kolkata-class and Visakhapatnam class Destroyers: News & Discussions

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#2
Delivery of navy's destroyers delayed

Delivery of the Indian Navy's three most modern destroyers is delayed by nearly three years due to a hold-up on the part of foreign vendors to supply vital arms and equipment for these warships.

As a result, the ships that were to come to the navy between July 2014 and 2018 under project 15B, would now be delivered by dockyard between 2021 and 2022, defence ministry officials said.

The first two ships, to be named INS Visakhapatnam and INS Mormugao on commissioning, were released into the water in April 2015 and September 2016, respectively.

Defence ministry and navy officials informed lawmakers that procurement of arms and sensors for these ships have been delayed.

According to the navy's Rs 29,300 crore contract with the Mazgaon dockyard, the four ships under Project 15B were to be delivered between 2014 and 2018. The first three vessels were to be delivered in 2018, 2020 and 2022.

Late delivery of long-range surface to air missile from Israel and its radar (MFSTAR) also contributed to the deferment of the final delivery of the Visakhapatnam and Mormugao to the navy.

In May, the Indian Navy for the first time fired a Barak-8 missile from INS Kochi - one of its new destroyers. It was followed by another firing in November.

With a delay at the supply end, the defence ministry decided to indigenously manufacture some of the items like the sonar system developed by DRDO and the ship surveillance radar, which would be manufactured by Bharat Electronics Limited.

A decision has also been taken to manufacture the main gun of these ships in India, after Italian company Oto Melara was barred from supplying guns to the navy because of the VVIP helicopter scam that involved its parent company Finmeccanica.
 

Vicky

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#3
Delivery of navy's destroyers delayed

Delivery of the Indian Navy's three most modern destroyers is delayed by nearly three years due to a hold-up on the part of foreign vendors to supply vital arms and equipment for these warships.

As a result, the ships that were to come to the navy between July 2014 and 2018 under project 15B, would now be delivered by dockyard between 2021 and 2022, defence ministry officials said.

The first two ships, to be named INS Visakhapatnam and INS Mormugao on commissioning, were released into the water in April 2015 and September 2016, respectively.

Defence ministry and navy officials informed lawmakers that procurement of arms and sensors for these ships have been delayed.

According to the navy's Rs 29,300 crore contract with the Mazgaon dockyard, the four ships under Project 15B were to be delivered between 2014 and 2018. The first three vessels were to be delivered in 2018, 2020 and 2022.

Late delivery of long-range surface to air missile from Israel and its radar (MFSTAR) also contributed to the deferment of the final delivery of the Visakhapatnam and Mormugao to the navy.

In May, the Indian Navy for the first time fired a Barak-8 missile from INS Kochi - one of its new destroyers. It was followed by another firing in November.

With a delay at the supply end, the defence ministry decided to indigenously manufacture some of the items like the sonar system developed by DRDO and the ship surveillance radar, which would be manufactured by Bharat Electronics Limited.

A decision has also been taken to manufacture the main gun of these ships in India, after Italian company Oto Melara was barred from supplying guns to the navy because of the VVIP helicopter scam that involved its parent company Finmeccanica.
A reason why items should be manufactured in India even if costly........ We need to have atleast 25 destroyers. Currently what we have is piecemeal....
 

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These are the recent images of the launch ceremony for the 3rd Scorpene-class SSK of Indian Navy (INS Karanj), note the P-15B DDG in the background.




Compare these with the same P-15B DDG seen during launch of the 2nd boat in class (INS Khanderi) about an year ago (17 Jan 2017):



Since then, I'd day the space in the main mast for the MFSTAR radar has been 'filled in' but I'm not sure if the array face itself has yet been installed or not. Either way, of note is the fact that the surveillance radar to be mounted on the rear mast has still not been installed.

@Abingdonboy @Aashish @Ashwin @Shashank
 

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These are the recent images of the launch ceremony for the 3rd Scorpene-class SSK of Indian Navy (INS Karanj), note the P-15B DDG in the background.




Compare these with the same P-15B DDG seen during launch of the 2nd boat in class (INS Khanderi) about an year ago (17 Jan 2017):



Since then, I'd day the space in the main mast for the MFSTAR radar has been 'filled in' but I'm not sure if the array face itself has yet been installed or not. Either way, of note is the fact that the surveillance radar to be mounted on the rear mast has still not been installed.

@Abingdonboy @Aashish @Ashwin @Shashank
Very sharp eyes you have got. :) . A very good development I would say. Any Idea about range and band of these radars we are going to install. Any link or detail would be helpful.
 

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Very sharp eyes you have got. :) . A very good development I would say. Any Idea about range and band of these radars we are going to install. Any link or detail would be helpful.
Well, the Elta EL/M-2248 MF-STAR is a multifunction S-band solid-state AESA radar that is set to be the mainstay of IN's future surface combatants. It's already installed on the 3 Kolkata-class DDGs, and the coming 4 Vizag-class DDGs, 7 P-17A FFGs and the IAC-1 carrier will also have the same radar. The MFSTAR is static and has 4 arrays covering all directions.

http://www.iai.co.il/2013/34481-36668-en/Groups_ELTA_EltaNumber_Products-ELM.aspx

Product brochure: http://www.iai.co.il/Sip_Storage//FILES/3/42053.pdf



The secondary radar (on rear mast) is planned to be the L-band BEL-made RAWL-02 (already installed on Kolkata-class) which is basically an Indian-manufactured improved version of the LW-08 (now from Thales). This radar, unlike the MFSTAR, has a single array and rotates the mount in order to cover 360 degrees, and is of an older generation of architecture (standard pulse-doppler design compared to MF-STAR's AESA).

BEL | Products



While BEL has been making improved versions of the RAWL-02, I personally would prefer IN to ditch this older generation of surveillance/volumn search radars altogether and move on to a solid-state AESA for this purpose as well. Radars of this new-gen type would be like the Thales SMART-L.

 

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These are the recent images of the launch ceremony for the 3rd Scorpene-class SSK of Indian Navy (INS Karanj), note the P-15B DDG in the background.




Compare these with the same P-15B DDG seen during launch of the 2nd boat in class (INS Khanderi) about an year ago (17 Jan 2017):



Since then, I'd day the space in the main mast for the MFSTAR radar has been 'filled in' but I'm not sure if the array face itself has yet been installed or not. Either way, of note is the fact that the surveillance radar to be mounted on the rear mast has still not been installed.

@Abingdonboy @Aashish @Ashwin @Shashank
What we don't know for sure, which one is it? lead ship or follow on of P15B

Well, the Elta EL/M-2248 MF-STAR is a multifunction S-band solid-state AESA radar that is set to be the mainstay of IN's future surface combatants. It's already installed on the 3 Kolkata-class DDGs, and the coming 4 Vizag-class DDGs, 7 P-17A FFGs and the IAC-1 carrier will also have the same radar. The MFSTAR is static and has 4 arrays covering all directions.

http://www.iai.co.il/2013/34481-36668-en/Groups_ELTA_EltaNumber_Products-ELM.aspx

Product brochure: http://www.iai.co.il/Sip_Storage//FILES/3/42053.pdf



The secondary radar (on rear mast) is planned to be the L-band BEL-made RAWL-02 (already installed on Kolkata-class) which is basically an Indian-manufactured improved version of the LW-08 (now from Thales). This radar, unlike the MFSTAR, has a single array and rotates the mount in order to cover 360 degrees, and is of an older generation of architecture (standard pulse-doppler design compared to MF-STAR's AESA).

BEL | Products



While BEL has been making improved versions of the RAWL-02, I personally would prefer IN to ditch this older generation of surveillance/volumn search radars altogether and move on to a solid-state AESA for this purpose as well. Radars of this new-gen type would be like the Thales SMART-L.

RAWL-02 should be replaced with Indian AESA radar like Arudhra MPR or enlarged NMDR
 

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@Parthu thank you very much for detailed reply. Just wondering what is the reason for using a PESA along with an AESA on same ship.
Is it to have some kind of redundancy or having a better observation capability in different frequency range?
 

Parthu

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@Parthu thank you very much for detailed reply. Just wondering what is the reason for using a PESA along with an AESA on same ship.
Is it to have some kind of redundancy or having a better observation capability in different frequency range?
Yes, redundancy and improved observation are some of the factors for having two radars. However typically, the radar with the shorter wavelength (in our case, the S-band MFSTAR) is used in a more 'multi-function' sort of way, with it being used for simultaneous tracking of both air & surface targets, as well as perform fire-control for the ship's main missile systems.

The radar with the longer wavelengths (in our case the L-band RAWL-02, or otherwise more advanced types like SMART-L) typically entails having better detection ranges, but at reduced resolutions. These radars are primarily used for aerial surveillance over long ranges, even capable of detecting & tracking exo-atmospheric targets (ballistic missiles, LEO satellites etc.). For this reason, on modern ships information gathered from both radars is processed by the on-board Combat Management System and is put to use in performing roles such as BMD.

What are the major differences between Kolkata class and Visakhapatnam class destroyers ??
Nothing much, so to speak. It's likely there could be improvements to the bridge systems, CMS and self-defense suites but hardware-wise there isn't any worthwhile difference. Makes me wonder why they couldn't just order 7 ships of the P-15A class instead of dividing them up into batches of 3 and 4 and wasting quite a lot of time doing it.

This isn't like the difference between P-17 Shivalik-class and P-17A where there are huge changes to weapons & sensors.

It does seem, however, that the superstructure on the P-15B could be somewhat different.
 
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Parthu

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Any clue that we shall see a flush Deck for improved stealth for the P15B?
Some changes to the superstructure and the way the bridge is laid out are a given (as is already evident from the photographs) but I'm not expecting a 'flush deck' so to speak. But we can be sure of that only when we get pics of the bow deck.
 
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