JIYO PARSI - Asking Parsis to Have More Kids, in the Most Regressive and Patriarchal Way

Aren't you contradicting yourself . You clearly said that both parents ought to be ethnic Zorastrians for the Child to have his Navjote , wear his Kushti/ Sadra , be permitted into the agiary and finally host the birds in the dokhma .In other words be a full fledged Parsi. How does Simone Tata or even Noel Tata qualify to be Zorastrians .

You're being difficult ....

Neither Simone nor Noel Tata qualify per Zoroastrian tenets.

Noel Tata is a beneficiary of patrilineal lineage laws of Parsis (India specific - and recent in origin - coinciding with the sharp declining numbers) allowing kids of Parsi fathers to have their Navjote ceremony and be allowed the same rights and duties of any other Parsi.

I have explained this at length earlier on this thread. You do not strike me as the kind of guy who misses a comma, so ...

Let's move on to Neville Wadia. Granted his reconversion to Zorastrianism was in keeping with the tenets of the faith . But what of his daughter in law - Dina Wadia nee Jinnah or his grand son Nusli Wadia . Further aapro Nusli wed an Anglo - Maureen . Yet Nusli and his sons - Ness & Jeh are recognised as Parsis .

Can you explain these " heresies ?" What's more , I believe Nusli Wadia was / is also a trustee of the Parsi Panchayat .

Sigh.

Neville Wadia was BORN a Parsi sir.

Sir Ness Wadia - his dad - is the guy you are confusing him for.

Dina Jinnah is NOT a Parsi. Did I say she was?

Why should Nusli not be a Parsi per the patrilineal lineage laws (allowances) described above?

Similarly why should his sons not be Parsi either?

Granted the Wadia family looked at traditionally has really dilute Zoroastrian genes by now. But they are technically still Parsi.

Cheers, Doc
 
Jeh and Ness are as Parsi genetically as Rahul and Priyanka are, but more Indic than them as well.

Cheers, Doc
 
You're being difficult ....

Neither Simone nor Noel Tata qualify per Zoroastrian tenets.

Noel Tata is a beneficiary of patrilineal lineage laws of Parsis (India specific - and recent in origin - coinciding with the sharp declining numbers) allowing kids of Parsi fathers to have their Navjote ceremony and be allowed the same rights and duties of any other Parsi.

I have explained this at length earlier on this thread. You do not strike me as the kind of guy who misses a comma, so ...



Sigh.

Neville Wadia was BORN a Parsi sir.

Sir Ness Wadia - his dad - is the guy you are confusing him for.

Dina Jinnah is NOT a Parsi. Did I say she was?

Why should Nusli not be a Parsi per the patrilineal lineage laws (allowances) described above?

Similarly why should his sons not be Parsi either?

Granted the Wadia family looked at traditionally has really dilute Zoroastrian genes by now. But they are technically still Parsi.

Cheers, Doc


In other words , you're in a minority - part of the ultra conservative faction , just as the liberals who insist that offspring of female Parsis be considered Parsis ,( were the parents to opt for the Child to be brought up as such ) , in line with Indian laws !

I didn't read the thread where in which you made comments to the same effect .
 
In other words , you're in a minority - part of the ultra conservative faction , just as the liberals who insist that offspring of female Parsis be considered Parsis ,( were the parents to opt for the Child to be brought up as such ) , in line with Indian laws !

I didn't read the thread where in which you made comments to the same effect .

Aha!

I do not know which bawas you have been moving around with, but by your definition then, most of us are privately ultra conservative.

Till one of our own marries outside, and then we shift to the center.

The ones on the left are essentially the dads of girls who marry outside. Our women (once they marry in) tend to be more conservative.

Cheers, Doc
 
Aha!

I do not know which bawas you have been moving around with, but by your definition then, most of us are privately ultra conservative.

Till one of our own marries outside, and then we shift to the center.

The ones on the left are essentially the dads of girls who marry outside. Our women (once they marry in) tend to be more conservative.

Cheers, Doc

Been surrounded by Bawas all my life . In and around my home & neighbourhood . School , College & workplace . Friends of mine and my siblings , friends of parents too. But , now that you've raised the question , I've never ever had discussions on any religious topics concerning Zorastrianism with them . Come to think of it , in spite of attending their festivities , birthdays , marriages , anniversaries , even the funerals of a few , I can't recall a single such discussion .

For that matter , I can't seriously think of any discussion / debate on religious issues that I may have had with any of my friends , irrespective of their religious beliefs ever and this includes Sikhs , Muslims , Christians , Parsis , a couple of Jews and my own CO religionists , till 2014.



The first one with whom I or rather we ( rest of my ex batchmates & myself ) had a fierce debate with , was an ex batch mate - a Pentecostal from Kerala . He got deeply upset on Modi's election , much like the troll here . That wasn't all . Without any provocation or any hint of a discussion on politics or religious issues( topics which we normally avoid - unwritten rule) , he initiated the discussion on politics which quickly escalated to religion - all by himself . He kept going on till our patience and tolerance were mistaken for assent or worse cowardice . What followed needn't be recounted here .

Then there are the Muslims , who at least have a genuine case against the BJP.

Coming back to the topic - I'd be damned if I were to pose this question to my bawa friends .Hence I'm asking you .

If the law explicitly recognises patrilineality as just cause by virtue of descent , conferring the status of a Parsi on the offspring of a Parsi / Non Parsi Union , how can the Agiary or the Dokhma prevent entry to such people . Isn't it untenable under the law ? More so , if it is a practise ,hasn't this been challenged in a court of law ? Finally given the paucity of land in Bombay specifically , how are such cases treated by the Parsi Panchayat w.r.t accommodation of such couples ?
 
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Come to think of it , in spite of attending their festivities , birthdays , marriages , anniversaries , even the funerals of a few , I can't recall a single such discussion .

That's not surprising. We are a very private people. You are talking about friends. Families will not discuss it within themselves if a non-Parsi relative is present. Or make a big joke about the whole thing just to make him or her comfortable (like about color or size or eating meat - specifically in relation to the kids).

For that matter , I can't seriously think of any discussion / debate on religious issues that I may have had with any of my friends , irrespective of their religious beliefs ever and this includes Sikhs , Muslims , Christians , Parsis , a couple of Jews and my own CO religionists , till 2014.

I agree with you. Same experience here as well. That only vindicates my point about the effect the BJP and the sangh and their ideology have had on Indian society. I personally would be cool with it (as I was briefly early on) if I saw it just as a cathartic outpouring from usually sweet and tolerant Hindus who've largely been feeling a syndrome that can best be described as "I am one of so many, yet how/why can this be done to me".

But its not that. Its not cathartic anymore. And it had gone past the drawing of lines in the sand. It is a toxic movement that is growing, and once normal Hindus are slowly and steadily being converted to what we agree is the Abrahamic (semitic for you) mirror image of what Hinduism traditionally is and always has been. Very un-Aryan, which is also the root of the disgust most bawas feel now (don't be fooled into thinking that your friends do not).

The first one with whom I or rather we ( rest of my ex batchmates & myself ) had a fierce debate with , was an ex batch mate - a Pentecostal from Kerala . He got deeply upset on Modi's election , much like the troll here . That wasn't all . Without any provocation or any hint of a discussion on politics or religious issues( topics which we normally avoid - unwritten rule) , he initiated the discussion on politics which quickly escalated to religion - all by himself . He kept going on till our patience and tolerance were mistaken for assent or worse cowardice . What followed needn't be recounted here .

Uncannily familiar. Seen it close up myself from both sides of the divide. Islamist as well as Hindutva. Hindus and Muslims and Sikhs and Parsi (our Christians have been silent). Its the way things have been pushed and fostered by the sangh. They are not interested in a unified secular India. They want a polarized Hindu Rashtra and that is the message that has been disseminated from the highest office of the land, through the cadre.

And my fear (as you seem to agree) is that this is not going to suddenly cease once the BJP loses. The harm has been done. Now it all depends on whether India swallows and digests, shakes itself clean, and moves on, as she always has, after each attack on her. Or she cannot. Or (and I hate to say it ....) will not.

Coming back to the topic - I'd be damned if I were to pose this question to my bawa friends .Hence I'm asking you .

If the law explicitly recognises patrilineality as just cause by virtue of descent , conferring the status of a Parsi on the offspring of a Parsi / Non Parsi Union , how can the Agiary or the Dokhma prevent entry to such people . Isn't it untenable under the law ? More so , if it is a practise ,hasn't this been challenged in a court of law ? Finally given the paucity of land in Bombay specifically , how are such cases treated by the Parsi Panchayat w.r.t accommodation of such couples ?

First off. It does NOT. It is an allowance that has increasingly found grudging acceptance on a case by case basis socially and among the dasturs as it became clear a few decades ago that our population had nearly halved from what it had been at the turn of the last century.

Zoroastrianism vs Parsiism is a debate started by certain lobbies. Many now in the West. But that falls flat on its face when we see the Irani Zoroastrians doing exactly the same. Most of the other arguments revolve around ancient conquests of immense land mass and the conversion of those peoples to Zoroastrianism some time in the ancient past. The counter narrative among the conservatives being that such were never religious but cultural conversions. Probably no unlike what happened during the period of Hindu conquests of South East Asia.

Being Zoroastrian is not only nature or nurture. It is both. So the argument of allowing non Zoroastrian blood into the community because someone "wants it badly enough" and then rearing those kids as Parsis is essentially diluting the ancient faith. We are going to be rearing cultural Parsis, not religious, racial and ethnic ones. Which is what has been happening off late. With our backs to the wall.

The case of women is different. I personally do not agree with the excommunication of Parsi women from the faith for marrying a non Parsi. Not allowed to enter and pray in our Fire Temples. Not allowed to enter the Dokhmas (though they still get to pray in the Bungli over the mortal remains before the mourners move to the Dokhma - like any other non Parsi mourner is). Not allowed to continue wearing the sudreh and kusti.

I am not sure of this, or the theological rationale, but I think I read a piece somewhere about it having to do with the mixing of non Parsi blood inside them when they become pregnant by their non Parsi spouse. And that even after the birth of that child, it is then the reason why they cannot be allowed the above. I do not know if it was you or your alter-ego @ManavantraTruti who I had told that most devout Parsis will not even allow non-Parsi blood to be transfused in elective surgeries.

So I am personally not against the High Court ruling that allowed the Parsi lady litigant (married to a non Parsi) entry into the Dokhma for the last rites of her Parsi parents. In fact I currently believe that they should be allowed to continue to be Parsis as they were born Parsis and had their Navjote ceremony before attaining puberty. Unless someone more learned can show me why our religion does not allow it.

Parsi Punchayats and the boards running the various baugs would never allow such to live within. As you know, I'm not a Pune or a Mumbai Parsi, so I'm not very clear if Parsi males are allowed to live within along with their non Parsi wives and if it is only allowed if the children have had their Navjotes (which as I have mentioned in the past is rare and certainly not a given).

Cheers, Doc
 
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CONVERSION To the Zoroastrian faith in the modern period

Modern Zoroastrians disagree on whether it is permissible for outsiders to enter their religion. Now scattered in small minority communities in Persia, India, Europe, and North America and without a religious hierarchy, the Zoroastrians are governed by councils and high priests whose authority is only local. Even within a community an individual may choose not to accept the ruling of the council or high priest. Zoroastrian communities and individuals thus have differing views on conversion. They tend to cluster around two general tendencies, reformist and traditionalist, but even within these groups the variation is considerable. Reformist liberals generally urge acceptance of any individual who chooses of his or her own free will to practice Zoroastrianism. They distinguish between “acceptance,” which implies complete free will, and conversion and proselytism, which carry connotations of coercion or pressure. Nevertheless, there are those who believe in the missionary nature of Zoroastrianism and go so far as to encourage active proselytism. On the traditionalist side some moderates permit the acceptance of spouses and the offspring of mixed marriages, but the strict constructionists refuse to accept as coreligionists even Zoroastrians who marry outside the faith and consider children born of such unions illegitimate. This controversy has become exacerbated in this century, as the scattered Zoroastrian communities are shrinking and experiencing increasing intermarriage. Opponents of conversion argue that, precisely because the community is so fragile, the acceptance of converts will dilute the ethnic strength of the religion and lead to its complete annihilation. The issue is of practical importance, for it affects admission to fire temples (Boyce, 1984, p. 153) and “towers of silence,” as well as the legal privileges attached to membership in the community.

The Gathas (the part of the Avesta attributed to Zoroaster), as well as other Avestan and Pahlavi texts, are cited by both sides to justify their positions (see i, above). The passage quoted most often by those who favor accepting converts is Yasna 31.3 (yā jvantō vīspəˊng vāurayā “by which I might convert all the living”; Insler, p. 182), cited as proof of the universal character of Zoroaster’s message. Several other verses of the Gathas, especially Yasna 46.12, in which a non-Iranian family (the Turanian Fryāna; Taraporewala, p. 251 n.; Pūr-e Dāwūd, p. 104 n.) is named among the followers of Zoroaster, have furnished liberals with a textual basis for their argument against confinement of Zoroastrianism to a specific race or nationality (letter from Kankāš-e Mūbadān-e Tehran, published in Māh-nāma Markaz-e Zartoštīān-e Kālīfornīā [Monthly newsletter of the California Zoroastrian Center], Westminster, 1/5, Ḵordād 1362 Š./June 1983, p. 2). Moreover, liberals hold that the intrinsically nonritualistic doctrine of the Gathas degenerated into an Iranian ideology as a result of language and other barriers (Antia, pp. 7-9) and of such alterations as the incorporation of stringent purity rituals (Boyce, Zoroastrianism I, p. 295) entailed by the establishment of an organized religion.

Traditionalists, on the other hand, accuse proponents of conversion of heretical distortion of scripture and maintain that blood and faith are a linked heritage. They suggest that the term mazdāyasna (Mazda worshiping) in scriptural sources—especially in the prayer Yasna 12, in which one declares “I am a Mazda worshiper” before declaring “I am a Zoroastrian”—refers to the religion into which Zoroaster and all his early followers were born (Irani, pp. 6-8). The mission of Zoroaster was thus to purify the mazdāyasna religion from alien doctrines, and there was no question, even at the beginning, of forcing or convincing people to abandon their ancestral religion or of accepting people not born into the mazdāyasna religion (Mirza et al., n.d., p. 7). Therefore only a child born of Zoroastrian parents is mazdāyasna by birth, and only such a child may be properly admitted into the Zoroastrian fold through receiving the traditional authorization to wear the outward symbols of the faith—the sacred undershirt (ṣodra) and the girdle (koštī)—at the Nowjat (lit., “new birth”) ceremony (Irani, p. 8).

The divergence in interpretation also extends to history. Traditionalists cite the general tolerance of other religious populations by the Achaemenid and Parthian dynasties as evidence that Zoroastrianism was intended to be the religion of a single ethnic group (Irani, pp. 29-31). Those liberals who hold that the individual must accept the religion of his or her own free will maintain that Zoroaster’s message could have provided no impetus to aggressive proselytizing. On the other hand, those favoring active proselytism cite such incidents as Xerxes’ destruction of the daivadānas (XPh, ll. 37-41; Kent, Old Persian, p. 151: “I destroyed that sanctuary of the demons . . . . Where previously the demons were worshipped, there I worshipped Ahuramazda”) as evidence that Zoroastrianism had been imposed by force and thus that the early Zoroastrian kings considered conversion of non-Zoroastrians both permissible and desirable (Antia, p. 30). Sasanian history provides ample evidence for use of both force and persuasion to win over non-Zoroastrians, but traditionalists argue that such instances as the endeavors of the Sasanian high priest Kerdīr recorded in the inscription on Kaʿba-ye Zardošt (“And there were many who had held the religion of the dēvs, and by my act they abandoned the religion of the dēvs and accepted the religion of the yazads”; Boyce, 1984, p. 113; interview with a member of the California Zoroastrian Center, November 1990) and the forced reconversion by Yazdegerd II (438-57) of Zoroastrian Armenians who had converted to Christianity took place primarily for political reasons (Antia, p. 13; Mirza et al., n.d., p. 7).

After the Arab conquest of Persia in the 7th century and the establishment of Islam as the religion of the new rulers, some Zoroastrians emigrated to India (the Parsis). Whereas the Zoroastrians who remained in Persia were not permitted to proselytize under Muslim rule and the conversion of a Muslim could result in persecution of the entire community, liberals point out that the Zoroastrian literature from after the conquest does include discussions of the possibility that a non-Zoroastrian might seek admission to the faith (Rivayat-i Hemit, pp. 184-88). They also cite the response of the Persian priests to a Parsi inquiry about the conversion of Hindu servant boys and girls (Persian Rivayats, tr. Dhabhar, p. 276), arguing that conversion to Zoroastrianism was certainly considered possible, at least in theory, and that the guidelines stipulated in such medieval sources reflect faithfully the Zoroastrian practice that prevailed in Sasanian times and thus conform to orthodox Zoroastrian beliefs.

Whereas the Persian Zoroastrian communities never explicitly opposed the acceptance of converts, since the 18th century Indian Parsi councils have generally refused to accept as Zoroastrians persons other than children of Parsi parents, though there have been sporadic rulings allowing acceptance of the children of mixed marriages. This rigor may be ascribed to the pressures of the caste structure in India, reinforced by the growing prosperity of the Parsi social-welfare system, a possible incentive for seeking admission to the Zoroastrian fold.

In Persia the majority of Zoroastrians lived in extreme poverty and suffered intermittent persecution up to the beginning of the 20th century. The question of conversion to Zoroastrianism would scarcely have arisen there. After the intervention of the Parsis on behalf of their Persian coreligionists, as well as changes in attitudes after the Constitutional Revolution, the condition of Persian Zoroastrians gradually improved. Owing partly to the policies of Reżā Shah (1304-20 Š./1925-41), for example, the adoption of Zoroastrian names for months, in the 1930s there was an awakening of interest in pre-Islamic history and religion. The efforts of several Persians to win recognition of the nobility of the Zoroastrian faith through translations of the Avesta contributed to increased respect for the old religion among the educated (Boyce, 1986, pp. 219-20). Nevertheless, only a few Persian Muslims became Zoroastrians: The Muslim dictum against conversion is very strong. In addition, Persian Zoroastrians, though theoretically adhering to the principle of acceptance, deemed it permissible only if it did not result in harm either to the Zoroastrian community or to the religion into which the individual was born (interview with Mrs. Susan Varjavand). Since the Islamic Revolution of 1357 Š./1978 the Persian Zoroastrian community has evidently become even more cautious about accepting converts.

The issue of conversion has been the cause of great disturbance within the new Zoroastrian communities in North America. Only a handful of non-Persians have been officially admitted to the fold. In the two instances in which information is available to the author, the converts were married to Zoroastrians. So far the religious councils in India refuse to acknowledge these initiates as true Zoroastrians (information provided by the California Zoroastrian Center; Mobad N. Hormuzdiar, who performed the controversial initiation of an American in New Rochelle, N.Y., on 5 March 1983; and Mrs. Susan Varjavand, a recent convert from Christianity).



Bibliography:

K. Antia, The Argument for Acceptance, Chicago, 1985.

M. Boyce, Textual Sources for the Study of Zoroastrianism, Manchester, 1984.

Idem, Zoroastrians, repr. London, 1986.

S. Insler, The Gathas of Zarathustra, Acta Iranica 8, Leiden, 1975.

R. A. Irani, “Acceptance”—Never Ever!, Poona, 1985.

H. K. Mirza, K. M. JamaspAsa, and F. M. Kotwal, Conversion in Zoroastrianism. A Myth Exploded, Bombay, 1983.

Idem, Antia’s “Acceptance.” A Zoroastrian "Ahrmogih" (Heresy), n.p., n.d.

[E.] Pūr(-e) Dāwūd, Gatha I, Bombay, 1952.

Rivayat-i Hemit-i Ashawahistan—A Study in Zoroastrian Law, tr. N. Safa-Isfehani, ed. R. N. Frye, Harvard Iranian Series 2, Cambridge, Mass., 1980.

I. J. S. Taraporewala, The Religion of Zarathushtra, Bombay, 1965.
 
CONVERSION TO ZOROASTRIANISM

The question of whether Zoroastrianism should allow converts is one of the most divisive and bitter issues facing the whole community. While other religions, such as Christianity and Islam, depend on converts to increase their numbers, Zoroastrianism has been, at least in recent centuries, strictly based on ethnicity. You have to be born a Zoroastrian in order to be one; you cannot enter into the faith from outside. But the question is continually asked: why must this be true? Can this policy be changed? And has this always been true in the long history of the faith? In this essay I will try to describe the many problems, arguments, and reasons on both sides of the question.

Can you convert to Zoroastrianism? The official answer, which is given by the Parsi priestly hierarchy in Bombay, and supported by a large number of traditional Zoroastrians, is NO. In order to be a Zoroastrian, you must be born of two Zoroastrian parents. One is not enough! No children of mixed marriages are officially Zoroastrian. In practice, however, the children of Zoroastrian fathers and non-Z. mothers are sometimes given admission to the faith - but not the children of Zoroastrian mothers and non-Z. fathers. Zoroastrian identity descends through the father's line, unlike Jewish identity, which is defined by the mother being Jewish.

Why has this rule against conversions come about? There are many levels of reasoning behind it. Conservatives who support the ban on conversions will cite philosophical, religious, political, social, and emotional reasons for it. Here are some of the arguments against conversion, which are commonly used by Zoroastrian traditionalists to justify their belief in the ethnic exclusivity of their faith.

The philosophical and religious reasons are represented by educated Zoroastrian conservatives. They say that all great religions are equally true, and that no one faith is better or more desirable than any other. All religions that lead to righteous and constructive actions are inspired by God, and will lead their good believers to a heavenly reward. Therefore there is no reason to choose one religion over another. These conservatives recommend that a spiritual searcher should seek within his/her own faith, without trying to adopt other religions. In this view, not only should there be no conversion to Zoroastrianism, but the need should not even arise. Christians should be good Christians, Muslims good Muslims, and Jews good Jews - without coveting the illusory benefits of someone else's faith.

A religious version of this argument claims that God Himself has placed everyone in his/her faith in a kind of religious destiny, and thus conversion is a disobedience against the God who has given you your specific religion. Many Zoroastrian traditionalists, especially Parsis, believe that the soul, which pre-exists birth into a material body, has chosen, in union with the will of God, to enter a specific religion. Attempting to convert is going against the true nature of one's own Soul. For traditionalists, conversion to Zoroastrianism is just short of blasphemy - an act of contempt for the God who has given you birth in a specific tradition. It is true, the traditionalists admit, that many of the great faiths were originally built on conversions from other religions, but these early, founding conversions are justified because they were done under the inspiration of a true Prophet - such as Moses, Jesus, or Mohammed. Once the era of the Prophet is gone, then conversions again become invalid, for only a divine Prophet has the authority to convert people.

This leads to the conclusion that hundreds of millions of people are worshiping invalidly, because their ancestors, without the benefit of a Prophet, chose an alien faith - whether willingly or because of coercion. This includes numerous Iranians, who were originally Zoroastrian but were converted to Islam.
The conservatives, though they are aware of this, still maintain that even an Iranian Muslim whose Zoroastrian ancestors were forcibly converted to Islam cannot return to the faith of his/her fathers. God, and those individual souls, chose that particular birth, no matter what went on historically. History cannot be reversed. Only a divine Prophet can convert people back to Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrian traditionalists rely on their religious beliefs about a coming Savior - the Saoshyant (Doc note: Mahdi for the Iranian Shia converts) - as a final answer to the problem of conversion. When the Savior arrives (a Zoroastrian idea that pre-dated Jewish Messianism and may have inspired the Jewish idea of the Messiah) this divine man will have the authority to convert people. Zoroastrians then hope that all people will be converted to Zoroastrianism through the power of the Savior, who will appear at the End of Time.

Meanwhile, traditionalist Zoroastrians wait patiently and continue to oppose conversion to their ancient faith. The next reason they use to justify their opposition is political and cultural. When groups of Iranian pilgrims fled an oppressive Muslim regime in Iran in the 10th century AD, they came to Gujarat, a kingdom on the west coast of India. The Kisseh-i-Sanjan, an epic poem written by a 16th-century Parsi priest, documents the history of his people in India. According to the poem, the pilgrims negotiated with the rulers of Gujarat for safe haven there, and they worked out an agreement. The pilgrims were required to explain the tenets of their religion to the ruler; they were also to learn the local language and speak it rather than Persian. They were also required to adopt the dress of the area rather than wear Iranian garb, they were to celebrate their weddings in the evening rather than in the morning, and they were to put aside their weapons and not wear them at any time. Other traditions say that the Zoroastrian pilgrims were never to convert their Hindu or Muslim neighbors. This promise of non- conversion may not be documented in the poem or other surviving texts, but it is oral tradition, handed down in Zoroastrian culture for a thousand years and more. And the Parsis, as these pilgrims to India were called, have kept their promises. Thus the prohibition against conversion has a longstanding political background.

The social argument against conversion relies on the idea that Zoroastrianism is a strictly ethnic religion. In the traditionalists' historical view, Zarathushtra was not an innovator, but a reformer who practiced the priestly traditions of his ancient Indo-Iranian people. Zoroastrianism, then, does not break traditions, but continues them - reformed from polytheism to monotheism by the divinely inspired Prophet. And these traditions are from time immemorial the exclusive possession of a people known as Aryans. In the West, the term "Aryan" has been permanently discredited by its misuse by the Nazis, and the more neutral "Indo-Iranian" is preferred. For a conservative Zoroastrian, especially those with a more extreme outlook, only those who are Indo-Iranian Zoroastrian, with an unbroken lineage unmixed with any non-Zoroastrian heritage, can be true Zoroastrians.

Traditionalists regard Zoroastrianism as more than just a religion. It is an integral culture, which comprises not only faith and practice but an entire lifestyle: language, symbolism, law, clothing, calendar, festivals, food, family life, songs and literature, humor, history, etiquette, gestures, even interior decoration. This integral culture is learned from the earliest moments of life - transmitted from parents to children in an education that no school or sociological study could ever provide. In the traditionalist view, it is impossible to enter into this culture if you have not been born into it - you cannot learn as an adult things you should have learned along with your first steps and words. This culture, and the religion that goes with it, thus cannot be transferred. A non-Zoroastrian married to a Zoroastrian will always be at a loss to understand things his/her spouse takes for granted. And the non-Zoroastrian spouse will bring elements from his/her own culture that are alien to the Z. culture. It is better never to marry outside the culture, as conflict will always follow. The religion is a precious heirloom, which will only be misunderstood and adulterated by outsiders. In this view, intermarriage can only be seen as a threat, which will result in the dilution or even the extinction of the precious culture. And as Zoroastrians, both Iranian and Parsi, migrate away from their native countries, the immigrants are terrified, with good reason, that this heirloom culture will be swept away by the polluted ocean of "Western" culture which surrounds them. Modern culture is a deeply fearsome thing to many traditionalist Zoroastrians.

The third set of reasons that Zoroastrian traditionalists give for their opposition to conversion is emotional and psychological. Zoroastrianism, ever since the Muslim conquest of Iran, has been a minority religion. It has been persecuted in Iran for centuries. Even in India, where the Parsis lived more or less undisturbed by their hosts, the Zoroastrians have always remained separate from the majority. The main reason why these minorities have been able to survive through the centuries is because their religion gives them strength. Zoroastrianism has been the coherent core of the people, the rallying point that keeps them going through hard times, poverty, and persecution. Why, then, should it be given away to those who have not earned it, not suffered through the long years of trial? It would mean nothing to an outsider. And so conversion becomes meaningless, or even an insult.

There seems to be a series of good arguments for banning conversion to Zoroastrianism. The trouble is that the number of "true" Zoroastrians continues to decrease. There are many reasons for this: a low birth rate, economic problems, the difficulty of finding qualified mates and raising families with a high standard of living, emigration, intermarriage, and simple apathy or ignorance of the faith. The resistance to any religious change has alienated many Zoroastrians, who question ancient laws and practices that they say were appropriate for the agrarian society of the past but have no relevance in a modern, technological world. If Zoroastrianism does not accept converts, say these questioners, it risks going the way of near-extinct sects such as the Shakers, whose inflexible practices (in the case of the Shakers, maintenance of celibacy and thus non- procreation) made it impossible to continue as a group.

It must be added that most of the anti-conversion sentiment in the Zoroastrian world comes from the Indian Parsis. Iranian Zoroastrians are much more likely to accept converts, marriages to non-Zoroastrians (who are then welcomed into the community) and people of mixed ancestry. The problems with conversion in Iran are mainly political: converting someone away from Islam is an offense against the Islamic Republic and may be seriously penalized. Therefore, conversions in Iran are done very quietly.

What arguments do the "liberal" Zoroastrians use to counter the conservatives? The liberal reformists claim documented history as their strongest argument in favor of conversion. According to the scriptures of Zoroastrianism, which range from the original Gathas of Zarathushtra to doctrinal works written in medieval times, conversion has not only been mentioned but accepted as a practice throughout the long history of the religion.

There are many passages in the original hymns of Zarathushtra, the Gathas, where the Prophet explicitly claims a mission to convert all people - not just Indo-Iranians. References to conversion occur throughout the Avesta and even in the latest book of the Avesta, written about 200-400 AD, the Vendidad. Scholars both Western and Zoroastrian have written extensively on the spread of Zoroastrianism to Armenia, Central Asia, and as far east as China; other historical texts and archaeological studies prove that Zoroastrianism had spread, through Persian traders, as far west as Asia Minor, Syria, and possibly even Eastern Europe. In lands bordering Iran, many people became Zoroastrians who were not of Indo-Iranian ethnicity. Even after the Islamic conquest, Zoroastrianism was still open to converts, especially servants in Zoroastrian homes who were adopted into the faith by their employers. The strict ban on conversion only dates from the nineteenth century AD.

The textual and historical evidence provide a strong and convincing argument for conversion to Zoroastrianism. The traditionalists, faced with Zarathushtra's clear references to converting all people, including non-Indo-Iranians, can only respond with the counter-argument that it is the TEACHINGS and IDEASof the Prophet that are intended for the whole world, while the RELIGION and its rituals belong only to the Indo-Iranian people. In other words, everyone can be inspired by Zarathushtra's holy words, but only pure-bred Indo-Iranians can practice the actual religion of Zarathushtra. Another variant of this argument is that Zarathushtra's references to a "universal" conversion only refer to a MORAL conversion from wrong-doing to right action, rather than a RELIGIOUS conversion from one faith to another. The more extreme traditionalists discount any conclusions or evidence provided by Western scholarship, regarding all Western interpretations of the Avesta scriptures as misguided, irreligious, and devoid of spiritual insight. Thus the Gathas, when considered as a separate text, are regarded by these traditionalists as a scholarly reconstruction, imposed by Western colonialists. For these extreme traditionalists, the entire Avesta, not just the Gathas, are the words of the Prophet, given by God, and its interpretation must be done in a spiritual and sometimes mystical fashion.

The "liberal" Zoroastrians are inspired by the text of the Gathas, which they regard as the only surviving words of the Prophet, and the primary text of the faith. They view Zarathushtra as a great innovator, rather than a reformer of a previous tradition. In the Gathas there is no mention of elaborate mythology, sacred time-schedules, coming Messiahs, Indo-Iranian exclusivity, priestly laws, or strict religious and ritual practices. The tone of the Gathas is philosophical, abstract, and ethical. The rituals, myths, and practices that the traditionalists are so intent on keeping, say the liberals, were DISCONTINUED by Zarathushtra, who never wanted them. It was only later that these religious and social elements were re-introduced into the religion. Therefore, say the reformers, there should be no objection to converting to Zoroastrianism, because the exclusive religious privileges of the Indo-Iranian people were never intended by Zarathushtra.
 
CONVERSION To the Zoroastrian faith in the modern period

Modern Zoroastrians disagree on whether it is permissible for outsiders to enter their religion. Now scattered in small minority communities in Persia, India, Europe, and North America and without a religious hierarchy, the Zoroastrians are governed by councils and high priests whose authority is only local. Even within a community an individual may choose not to accept the ruling of the council or high priest. Zoroastrian communities and individuals thus have differing views on conversion. They tend to cluster around two general tendencies, reformist and traditionalist, but even within these groups the variation is considerable. Reformist liberals generally urge acceptance of any individual who chooses of his or her own free will to practice Zoroastrianism. They distinguish between “acceptance,” which implies complete free will, and conversion and proselytism, which carry connotations of coercion or pressure. Nevertheless, there are those who believe in the missionary nature of Zoroastrianism and go so far as to encourage active proselytism. On the traditionalist side some moderates permit the acceptance of spouses and the offspring of mixed marriages, but the strict constructionists refuse to accept as coreligionists even Zoroastrians who marry outside the faith and consider children born of such unions illegitimate. This controversy has become exacerbated in this century, as the scattered Zoroastrian communities are shrinking and experiencing increasing intermarriage. Opponents of conversion argue that, precisely because the community is so fragile, the acceptance of converts will dilute the ethnic strength of the religion and lead to its complete annihilation. The issue is of practical importance, for it affects admission to fire temples (Boyce, 1984, p. 153) and “towers of silence,” as well as the legal privileges attached to membership in the community.

The Gathas (the part of the Avesta attributed to Zoroaster), as well as other Avestan and Pahlavi texts, are cited by both sides to justify their positions (see i, above). The passage quoted most often by those who favor accepting converts is Yasna 31.3 (yā jvantō vīspəˊng vāurayā “by which I might convert all the living”; Insler, p. 182), cited as proof of the universal character of Zoroaster’s message. Several other verses of the Gathas, especially Yasna 46.12, in which a non-Iranian family (the Turanian Fryāna; Taraporewala, p. 251 n.; Pūr-e Dāwūd, p. 104 n.) is named among the followers of Zoroaster, have furnished liberals with a textual basis for their argument against confinement of Zoroastrianism to a specific race or nationality (letter from Kankāš-e Mūbadān-e Tehran, published in Māh-nāma Markaz-e Zartoštīān-e Kālīfornīā [Monthly newsletter of the California Zoroastrian Center], Westminster, 1/5, Ḵordād 1362 Š./June 1983, p. 2). Moreover, liberals hold that the intrinsically nonritualistic doctrine of the Gathas degenerated into an Iranian ideology as a result of language and other barriers (Antia, pp. 7-9) and of such alterations as the incorporation of stringent purity rituals (Boyce, Zoroastrianism I, p. 295) entailed by the establishment of an organized religion.

Traditionalists, on the other hand, accuse proponents of conversion of heretical distortion of scripture and maintain that blood and faith are a linked heritage. They suggest that the term mazdāyasna (Mazda worshiping) in scriptural sources—especially in the prayer Yasna 12, in which one declares “I am a Mazda worshiper” before declaring “I am a Zoroastrian”—refers to the religion into which Zoroaster and all his early followers were born (Irani, pp. 6-8). The mission of Zoroaster was thus to purify the mazdāyasna religion from alien doctrines, and there was no question, even at the beginning, of forcing or convincing people to abandon their ancestral religion or of accepting people not born into the mazdāyasna religion (Mirza et al., n.d., p. 7). Therefore only a child born of Zoroastrian parents is mazdāyasna by birth, and only such a child may be properly admitted into the Zoroastrian fold through receiving the traditional authorization to wear the outward symbols of the faith—the sacred undershirt (ṣodra) and the girdle (koštī)—at the Nowjat (lit., “new birth”) ceremony (Irani, p. 8).

The divergence in interpretation also extends to history. Traditionalists cite the general tolerance of other religious populations by the Achaemenid and Parthian dynasties as evidence that Zoroastrianism was intended to be the religion of a single ethnic group (Irani, pp. 29-31). Those liberals who hold that the individual must accept the religion of his or her own free will maintain that Zoroaster’s message could have provided no impetus to aggressive proselytizing. On the other hand, those favoring active proselytism cite such incidents as Xerxes’ destruction of the daivadānas (XPh, ll. 37-41; Kent, Old Persian, p. 151: “I destroyed that sanctuary of the demons . . . . Where previously the demons were worshipped, there I worshipped Ahuramazda”) as evidence that Zoroastrianism had been imposed by force and thus that the early Zoroastrian kings considered conversion of non-Zoroastrians both permissible and desirable (Antia, p. 30). Sasanian history provides ample evidence for use of both force and persuasion to win over non-Zoroastrians, but traditionalists argue that such instances as the endeavors of the Sasanian high priest Kerdīr recorded in the inscription on Kaʿba-ye Zardošt (“And there were many who had held the religion of the dēvs, and by my act they abandoned the religion of the dēvs and accepted the religion of the yazads”; Boyce, 1984, p. 113; interview with a member of the California Zoroastrian Center, November 1990) and the forced reconversion by Yazdegerd II (438-57) of Zoroastrian Armenians who had converted to Christianity took place primarily for political reasons (Antia, p. 13; Mirza et al., n.d., p. 7).

After the Arab conquest of Persia in the 7th century and the establishment of Islam as the religion of the new rulers, some Zoroastrians emigrated to India (the Parsis). Whereas the Zoroastrians who remained in Persia were not permitted to proselytize under Muslim rule and the conversion of a Muslim could result in persecution of the entire community, liberals point out that the Zoroastrian literature from after the conquest does include discussions of the possibility that a non-Zoroastrian might seek admission to the faith (Rivayat-i Hemit, pp. 184-88). They also cite the response of the Persian priests to a Parsi inquiry about the conversion of Hindu servant boys and girls (Persian Rivayats, tr. Dhabhar, p. 276), arguing that conversion to Zoroastrianism was certainly considered possible, at least in theory, and that the guidelines stipulated in such medieval sources reflect faithfully the Zoroastrian practice that prevailed in Sasanian times and thus conform to orthodox Zoroastrian beliefs.

Whereas the Persian Zoroastrian communities never explicitly opposed the acceptance of converts, since the 18th century Indian Parsi councils have generally refused to accept as Zoroastrians persons other than children of Parsi parents, though there have been sporadic rulings allowing acceptance of the children of mixed marriages. This rigor may be ascribed to the pressures of the caste structure in India, reinforced by the growing prosperity of the Parsi social-welfare system, a possible incentive for seeking admission to the Zoroastrian fold.

In Persia the majority of Zoroastrians lived in extreme poverty and suffered intermittent persecution up to the beginning of the 20th century. The question of conversion to Zoroastrianism would scarcely have arisen there. After the intervention of the Parsis on behalf of their Persian coreligionists, as well as changes in attitudes after the Constitutional Revolution, the condition of Persian Zoroastrians gradually improved. Owing partly to the policies of Reżā Shah (1304-20 Š./1925-41), for example, the adoption of Zoroastrian names for months, in the 1930s there was an awakening of interest in pre-Islamic history and religion. The efforts of several Persians to win recognition of the nobility of the Zoroastrian faith through translations of the Avesta contributed to increased respect for the old religion among the educated (Boyce, 1986, pp. 219-20). Nevertheless, only a few Persian Muslims became Zoroastrians: The Muslim dictum against conversion is very strong. In addition, Persian Zoroastrians, though theoretically adhering to the principle of acceptance, deemed it permissible only if it did not result in harm either to the Zoroastrian community or to the religion into which the individual was born (interview with Mrs. Susan Varjavand). Since the Islamic Revolution of 1357 Š./1978 the Persian Zoroastrian community has evidently become even more cautious about accepting converts.

The issue of conversion has been the cause of great disturbance within the new Zoroastrian communities in North America. Only a handful of non-Persians have been officially admitted to the fold. In the two instances in which information is available to the author, the converts were married to Zoroastrians. So far the religious councils in India refuse to acknowledge these initiates as true Zoroastrians (information provided by the California Zoroastrian Center; Mobad N. Hormuzdiar, who performed the controversial initiation of an American in New Rochelle, N.Y., on 5 March 1983; and Mrs. Susan Varjavand, a recent convert from Christianity).



Bibliography:

K. Antia, The Argument for Acceptance, Chicago, 1985.

M. Boyce, Textual Sources for the Study of Zoroastrianism, Manchester, 1984.

Idem, Zoroastrians, repr. London, 1986.

S. Insler, The Gathas of Zarathustra, Acta Iranica 8, Leiden, 1975.

R. A. Irani, “Acceptance”—Never Ever!, Poona, 1985.

H. K. Mirza, K. M. JamaspAsa, and F. M. Kotwal, Conversion in Zoroastrianism. A Myth Exploded, Bombay, 1983.

Idem, Antia’s “Acceptance.” A Zoroastrian "Ahrmogih" (Heresy), n.p., n.d.

[E.] Pūr(-e) Dāwūd, Gatha I, Bombay, 1952.

Rivayat-i Hemit-i Ashawahistan—A Study in Zoroastrian Law, tr. N. Safa-Isfehani, ed. R. N. Frye, Harvard Iranian Series 2, Cambridge, Mass., 1980.

I. J. S. Taraporewala, The Religion of Zarathushtra, Bombay, 1965.

In Today's times you can convert people only by two ways

1 Incentives to poor people as Christians do or

2 Allowing Children of non parsis to become A parsi or be accepted as a parsi

This Purity of Blood is an absurd concept

Only thing that matters is a Person's Education and Character and Health of course

As a Doctor you would agree that a Healthy Person's blood is any day more PURE than
an unhealthy person or one who who is a Smoker and alcoholic :LOL:
 
In Today's times you can convert people only by two ways

1 Incentives to poor people as Christians do or

2 Allowing Children of non parsis to become A parsi or be accepted as a parsi

This Purity of Blood is an absurd concept

Only thing that matters is a Person's Education and Character and Health of course

As a Doctor you would agree that a Healthy Person's blood is any day more PURE than
an unhealthy person or one who who is a Smoker and alcoholic :LOL:

By purity of bloodlines we refer to our race and ethnicity.

There is nothing impure about Indic blood - except that it is not Zoroastrian.

Cheers, Doc
 
I cannot open the link or read the text.

If you or @STEPHEN COHEN could paste it here, maybe I could then decide which color my face should turn to ...

Cheers, Doc

It is a welcome decision of the Indian government to fund new fertility clinics to help save its dwindling Parsi population which is now under threat of extinction. The Parsis should be grateful that the Indian government actually cares about preserving their community and is even on board monetarily to reverse the decline. The government has also launched a scheme called ‘Jiyo Parsi’ in order to reverse the declining trend of Parsi population.

The Parsis are an illustrious community and their contribution to India and its development is starkly out of proportion to their tiny numbers. Today they are one of India’s most successful communities with Parsi figures playing leading roles in commerce, politics, the military and entertainment industry. Their numbers have declined by 12 per cent every census decade — India’s population increases by 21 per cent. The birth rate of the Parsis has dropped dramatically to below replacement levels. They are projected to plummet to 23,000 in the near future, reducing this sophisticated, urbane community to a “tribe”. India’s Parsis have been facing a relentless demographic decline. In the decade till 2011, when the last national census was held, their numbers fell from 69,601 to 57,264. Their numbers have been falling every decade since 1941, when it had reached a peak of more than 1,00,000. Between 1971 and 1981 it fell by 20 per cent, the sharpest decline till the latest decennial count.

Having attained a certain level of education and profession, the girls want boys from a higher status and standing if not equal and that leads to late marriages or single status and consequently fewer children. The average age of marriage for Parsi women is 29-30 and 35 for men. Fertility rates have fallen below viable levels; only one in nine wholly Parsi families has a child under age 10. Thirty per cent of the community never marries. Many girls marry outside the community and so they and their children are not considered Parsis. One in every 10 women and one in every five men remains unmarried by age 50.

Depression among the elderly people, migration to foreign countries and the drastic decline in fertility — after three decades, their population is estimated to fall to 40,000. Their numbers are down to a critical 61,000, and diminishing by the day; another 40,000 are scattered across the world with an even greater struggle to hang on to their distinctive identity. Since 2001, the Parsi population has declined to 57,264, an approximate 18 per cent drop from 69,601. The tradition of marrying only within the community resulted in large numbers of people remaining unmarried in the 70s and 80s. According to an estimate, close to 30 per cent of Parsis in the bigger cities such as Mumbai, Delhi and Pune are marrying outside the community. Time has now come when cognizant effort is needed by the young Parsi generation to make a change in their socio-psychological attitude. They should get married early at the right time and should not delay the birth of children for the sake of better careers.
 
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By purity of bloodlines we refer to our race and ethnicity.

There is nothing impure about Indic blood - except that it is not Zoroastrian.

Cheers, Doc

So that in effect means two things

1 Parsis believe that they are Different and superior Human Beings

2 And that the Parsi GOD is Different and superior to other Gods

Because All other religions say that All Humans are equal and You can Worship God
in any name or form or Shape
 
It is a welcome decision of the Indian government to fund new fertility clinics to help save its dwindling Parsi population which is now under threat of extinction. The Parsis should be grateful that the Indian government actually cares about preserving their community and is even on board monetarily to reverse the decline. The government has also launched a scheme called ‘Jiyo Parsi’ in order to reverse the declining trend of Parsi population.

The Parsis are an illustrious community and their contribution to India and its development is starkly out of proportion to their tiny numbers. Today they are one of India’s most successful communities with Parsi figures playing leading roles in commerce, politics, the military and entertainment industry. Their numbers have declined by 12 per cent every census decade — India’s population increases by 21 per cent. The birth rate of the Parsis has dropped dramatically to below replacement levels. They are projected to plummet to 23,000 in the near future, reducing this sophisticated, urbane community to a “tribe”. India’s Parsis have been facing a relentless demographic decline. In the decade till 2011, when the last national census was held, their numbers fell from 69,601 to 57,264. Their numbers have been falling every decade since 1941, when it had reached a peak of more than 1,00,000. Between 1971 and 1981 it fell by 20 per cent, the sharpest decline till the latest decennial count.

Having attained a certain level of education and profession, the girls want boys from a higher status and standing if not equal and that leads to late marriages or single status and consequently fewer children. The average age of marriage for Parsi women is 29-30 and 35 for men. Fertility rates have fallen below viable levels; only one in nine wholly Parsi families has a child under age 10. Thirty per cent of the community never marries. Many girls marry outside the community and so they and their children are not considered Parsis. One in every 10 women and one in every five men remains unmarried by age 50.

Depression among the elderly people, migration to foreign countries and the drastic decline in fertility — after three decades, their population is estimated to fall to 40,000. Their numbers are down to a critical 61,000, and diminishing by the day; another 40,000 are scattered across the world with an even greater struggle to hang on to their distinctive identity. Since 2001, the Parsi population has declined to 57,264, an approximate 18 per cent drop from 69,601. The tradition of marrying only within the community resulted in large numbers of people remaining unmarried in the 70s and 80s. According to an estimate, close to 30 per cent of Parsis in the bigger cities such as Mumbai, Delhi and Pune are marrying outside the community. Time has now come when cognizant effort is needed by the young Parsi generation to make a change in their socio-psychological attitude. They should get married early at the right time and should not delay the birth of children for the sake of better careers.

"Having attained a certain level of education and profession, the girls want boys from a higher status and standing if not equal and that leads to late marriages or single status and consequently fewer children." - notice the spin our friend @_Anonymous_ gave to the same.

"Time has now come when cognizant effort is needed by the young Parsi generation to make a change in their socio-psychological attitude. They should get married early at the right time and should not delay the birth of children for the sake of better careers." - this is the bottom line. What is left unsaid is that they need to marry Parsis first.

So that in effect means two things

1 Parsis believe that they are Different and superior Human Beings

2 And that the Parsi GOD is Different and superior to other Gods

Because All other religions say that All Humans are equal and You can Worship God
in any name or form or Shape

You need to read the excerpts I posted above.

Possibly the second one, which I think tackles both your points.

Cheers, Doc
 
"Having attained a certain level of education and profession, the girls want boys from a higher status and standing if not equal and that leads to late marriages or single status and consequently fewer children." - notice the spin our friend @_Anonymous_ gave to the same.

"Time has now come when cognizant effort is needed by the young Parsi generation to make a change in their socio-psychological attitude. They should get married early at the right time and should not delay the birth of children for the sake of better careers." - this is the bottom line. What is left unsaid is that they need to marry Parsis first.



You need to read the excerpts I posted above.

Possibly the second one, which I think tackles both your points.

Cheers, Doc

You must be aware that it is mostly the parsi women who are marrying outside
because they dont find suitable guys in their community

And that their children are being denied recognition as parsis

A child would always prefer to follow the Mother's religion Because little children are like
Tails / shadows of their Mothers

Dads can only teach Sports to kids :LOL:
 
Having attained a certain level of education and profession, the girls want boys from a higher status and standing if not equal and that leads to late marriages or single status and consequently fewer children." - notice the spin our friend @_Anonymous_ gave to the same.


Notice I said half the facts . A corollary to what you've posted and which I've quoted is that's one of the reasons Parsi ladies marry outside the community .
 
You must be aware that it is mostly the parsi women who are marrying outside
because they dont find suitable guys in their community

Not true, as I have mentioned before.

The women just make the news because of our laws that are weighted against them.

A Parsi man after marrying a Hindu girl still wears the sudreh and kusti, prays in the fire temple, keeps his family name, can perform the last rites in the Dokhma for his family, and placed in the Dokhma when he dies. His kids can have their Navjote done legally by a dastur in a fire temple. His kids get to be Parsi. And the man and his kids can still enjoy all the economic privileges of being a Parsi (scholarships, grants, loans, etc.).

For a Parsi woman when she marries a Hindu, none of the above applies. Except now the Dokhma entry per the recent HC ruling.

In effect, a man marrying outside the community does not make news, but still skews the numbers, because few kids of such unions actually have their Navjote - for a variety of reasons.

1) Parsis are extremely fair and moralistic. Painfully so at times. The guy says that the kids should be allowed to make their own decision when they grow up.

When they grow up (have reached puberty) they can no longer have their Navjote. So they are effectively lost to the community.

2) The point you made about the kids being closer culturally to the mother is one I have already made a long time back. It is undeniable. And a double whammy for the community. Because the Parsi man wants the kids to choose. And the Parsi woman's kids do not get to choose.

3) Because of the cosmopolitan nature of big cities in India today, namely mainly Mumbai and Pune, no one really wants to go through the aggravation of pulling the kids one way or the other in terms of faith. In laws and their family have to be kept happy. Plus the (painful) equality paradigm all Parsis are born into and grow up with.

So forget kids, most guys (ok, many) will not even have a Parsi wedding, choosing to keep their Hindu/Christian brides happy and having a registered marriage. Or having both ceremonies. Or having just the ceremony of the bride's faith.

4) Unless they are a rich high profile industrialist or business family, where huge property and moolah is involved on the Parsi side, most mixed marriage couples just usually get whacked from each side, and since they tend to get whacked harder from the Parsi side, they gravitate to the Indic (Hindu/Christian) side more just so that they get to have a "traditional" Indian marriage and not the cold impersonality of a registrar's office.

Hope that answers (clears) some of your misconceptions.

Cheers, Doc
 
@STEPHEN COHEN

The same PIA equality and fair-play paradigm ingrained in Parsis, young and old, liberal or conservative, man woman or child, left or right or center, is what makes them so livid against the "India for Hindus" ideology of the Sangh and its political arm.

Just a counter-insight.

Cheers, Doc