Is democracy a failure ? Alternatives to a democratic system in the future.

smestarz

Well-Known member
Nov 30, 2017
528
309
Actung Panzers
When the sample size gets bigger, the natural choices become bigger,
For example its not that difficult to select say 1 or 3 leaders from population of 50,000 it is very much possible, but when that number increases hugely, the choices will differ and hence democracy becomes stressed.
India has a population of 1.25 billion, and we have 524 members of parliament, thus that makes it about 2.38 million people represented by a person, In very common sense, can this person even meet 10% of this number in face to face interaction and give them 5 minutes of his time?
5 years means 2.62 million minutes (without the rest etc) thus on an average the representative should have a minute of time for each member of his constituent, and if you add his resting time etc he would have 30 seconds an average time, in that case can he truly represent these people?
The present system is good for lower rung, like corporators etc, but for MLA and MP level there should be more states and more representatives so that the sample size should be smaller for better representation
 
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Srinivas

RED BERET
Dec 6, 2017
72
83
bangalore
When the sample size gets bigger, the natural choices become bigger,
For example its not that difficult to select say 1 or 3 leaders from population of 50,000 it is very much possible, but when that number increases hugely, the choices will differ and hence democracy becomes stressed.
India has a population of 1.25 billion, and we have 524 members of parliament, thus that makes it about 2.38 million people represented by a person, In very common sense, can this person even meet 10% of this number in face to face interaction and give them 5 minutes of his time?
5 years means 2.62 million minutes (without the rest etc) thus on an average the representative should have a minute of time for each member of his constituent, and if you add his resting time etc he would have 30 seconds an average time, in that case can he truly represent these people?
The present system is good for lower rung, like corporators etc, but for MLA and MP level there should be more states and more representatives so that the sample size should be smaller for better representation

MP are not to go out and meet people individually, that is the job of local bodies. If you have good local administration then it makes it easier for the elected representatives.
 

smestarz

Well-Known member
Nov 30, 2017
528
309
Actung Panzers
MPs are the peoples representatives and the people elect them, if the local bodies are the ones doing their jobs, the point of voting for a Member of parliament becomes illogical. We basically vote for member of Parliament to solve our bigger issues, but if the issues are not for him to solve, it becomes useless to have MPs, dont you think?

MP are not to go out and meet people individually, that is the job of local bodies. If you have good local administration then it makes it easier for the elected representatives.
 

Notsuperstitious

Well-Known member
Dec 31, 2017
413
552
India
We can discuss the history of governing systems and how we reached here today. But it will be an endlessly long topic. It is such a complex subject.

The world is dealing with current failures of not just democracy but ALL governing systems. The power grabs in China and Russia should not be overlooked. This to a great degree an outcome of the technology driven small world that has never experienced such changes at such pace before. Also we perceive these failures in our living room, in our office, while commuting and in the toilet because of the same technology :)

Technology has amplified the perception too and thus worsened the observation bias.

IMo democracy offers the best solution still because despite the occassional failures of the collective electorate, the system still has inherent features that allow for correction.
 
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Srinivas

RED BERET
Dec 6, 2017
72
83
bangalore
MPs are the peoples representatives and the people elect them, if the local bodies are the ones doing their jobs, the point of voting for a Member of parliament becomes illogical. We basically vote for member of Parliament to solve our bigger issues, but if the issues are not for him to solve, it becomes useless to have MPs, dont you think?
MPs play an important role in coordinating between states and center.

As I said earlier it is not the job of an MP is not local administration. He sits above the local bodies and direct them to do their jobs.

MPs also play their part in shaping up of centre’s policies.
 

A Person

Well-Known member
Dec 1, 2017
600
527
A Place
"Indian democracy has matured" is the obvious narrative , but world-wide democracy is on the decline , do we have an equivalent system to replace it with in the future.

Lets not keep autocracy, theocracy, communism, feudalism as options , we have seen the worse of these.
When you say democracy is on the decline, you have to look at which countries are getting less democratic and how they are turning out.

And that's when you notice that it's not so much democracy that's on the decline as autocracy that is back on the rise.

Now the question could be, why is autocracy on the rise? My answer to that is that it's a reaction to corporate power. People want nation-states to be the organisms that control the world, because it's how human society has always worked. However, as a result of liberalism and especially Anglo-Saxon neoliberalism, the power of nation-states has eroded while the power of international corporations has dramatically increased; threatening to turn every country into a potential "banana republic". (As a reminder: a banana republic is one where the real power is in the hand of foreign corporations; which uses this control to plunder and pillage the local economy.) The best example of this erosion of power is in the so-called "investor-state dispute settlement" system attached to free trade deals, which give corporations the power to revoke national legislation at their leisure.
Because of this, people want their governments to be strong enough to say "*censored* it, *censored* you, I make the law here, not you" and that's why they back authoritarians. The appeal of autocrats in nearly-democratic countries rests largely on their capacity to hold their ground against foreign powers and the neoliberal world order where faceless corporations make the rules; not on their capacity to oppress the population at home.

So, the solution isn't less democracy, but less neoliberalism.
 
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Aravind

Wolfpack
Dec 5, 2017
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Why democracy can be considered a failure in modern days is because it has become a marketing slug fest worldwide, couple that with the false promises , uneducated emotional voters , corruption and violation charges , propaganda machinery and a lot of other dirty politics.

"Indian democracy has matured" is the obvious narrative , but world-wide democracy is on the decline , do we have an equivalent system to replace it with in the future.

Lets not keep autocracy, theocracy, communism, feudalism as options , we have seen the worse of these.
You should include Dharmic rule, where a king/PM steps away for cause of dharma.That is the natural way. All these are Adharmic experiments who took small bits and pieces of Dharma and tried experimenting with it, even so called Democracy was a experiment of west to emulate Dharma.
All these models will fail, and we will go back to natural and time tested sustained Dharmic rule. This is what the essence of Bharat is all about, Punyabhoomi, Karmabhoomi,,Dharmabhoomi, Devabhoomi. Proud to be born in such a land.
 

Aravind

Wolfpack
Dec 5, 2017
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Badacow7
The question actually needs to go further. Deeper.

Is nationhood a failed concept?

Do we need to rethink that first.

Cheers, Doc
Nationhood will remain , unless you are a ganja smokin Rastafarian singing . free world, no borders etc. EU was that experiment and its failing badly. , Either you got Aliens attacking like Independence day or you colonize a new world, then saying is "Nationhood a failed concept? appropriate"
 

Aravind

Wolfpack
Dec 5, 2017
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w
So how should the world be organised ; if Not on the basis of nation states

Do you suggest something like Ummah or the Caliphate or the Vatican
We should do it, because all 'them' dread about you organizing as a single force' hence they want to keep you separate. Just remember why after so many countries succumbed to Abrahamics, we still remain strong? because it is our conscience as a people of Bharat, that produces Champions from time to time to fight for us, Bharat is like a 'Akshaya Patra' it will produce, Warriors when needed, Saints when world needs it, and Intellectuals when this earth needs it' It is endless, do you understand despite all these invasions problems etc. we still go strong as this is 'DHARMIC LAND'
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,366
937
India
No clear cut answer to that.

Democracy is majority driven, and majority of India is uneducated and mired with casteism, communalism and regionalism. I would prefer a monarch with right intentions and capabilities to rule India till the population become self reliant and good enough to chose even better. Downside of it is what if the chosen one comes out to be an a$$ and then who will chose the person if not by democracy itself.

@vsdoc Lately I have lost interest in nationhood. Its a trap.
 

vsdoc

Banned
Feb 14, 2018
1,878
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my cave
No clear cut answer to that.

Democracy is majority driven, and majority of India is uneducated and mired with casteism, communalism and regionalism. I would prefer a monarch with right intentions and capabilities to rule India till the population become self reliant and good enough to chose even better. Downside of it is what if the chosen one comes out to be an a$$ and then who will chose the person if not by democracy itself.

@vsdoc Lately I have lost interest in nationhood. Its a trap.
It's one grouping. Like many others.

Which is placed above others to protect it's overarching existence over others when the others differ and need a common thread for collective action.

In my view it's no better and no worse than any other inorganic grouping.

Cheers, Doc
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,366
937
India
Our roots go well beyond us, bhratashri, it is our Kartavya to be born and to fight for Bharat,( we are sons of Bharat, Duty is our dharma)
What if I born as Pakistani next. Fight for Ummah. Or say a chinese to hail king Xi.:confused:
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,366
937
India
It's one grouping. Like many others.

Which is placed above others to protect it's overarching existence over others when the others differ and need a common thread for collective action.

In my view it's no better and no worse than any other inorganic grouping.

Cheers, Doc
Nationalism is reduced to "Please die for me while I keep munching my grapes".
 
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