Indian Navy LHD/LPD Amphibious Ships : Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter Gautam
- Start date
Twin island config may be too fancy for the IN. Besides Trieste is STOVL capable.
With 80k crore rupees, we are looking at 2+billion dollars per ships in our case.
While trieste here costed 1.4 billion dollars.
And its larger in size than what's asked in our rfi.
Even with inflation our seems to expensive.
LHD Trieste design looks too big. Requirement is for ~220 meter design.
My bet is on modified Juan Carlos. Or a clean sheet design by NDB.
Every existing design will need to be reworked. It will need to have electric propulsion with an MT30 gas turbine.
Competition will be between CSL and L&T. MDL dont have space for these.
LHD Trieste design looks too big. Requirement is for ~220 meter design.
My bet is on modified Juan Carlos. Or a clean sheet design by NDB.
Every existing design will need to be reworked. It will need to have electric propulsion with an MT30 gas turbine.
Competition will be between CSL and L&T. MDL dont have space for these.
This was the modified design offered by L&T and Navantia for the IN.
I wonder how'll they operate fixed wing UAVs with ski-jump ramps. Ideally one could expect a Naval Ghatak operating from these LHD/LPDs with limited payload.LHD Trieste design looks too big. Requirement is for ~220 meter design.
My bet is on modified Juan Carlos. Or a clean sheet design by NDB.
Every existing design will need to be reworked. It will need to have electric propulsion with an MT30 gas turbine.
Competition will be between CSL and L&T. MDL dont have space for these.
We can add a reheat module/afterburner section on naval ghatak for takeoff's.
A modified ~15ton mtow ghatak with a small reheat/afterburner module and some extra fuel.
Also, further designs modifications will be needed for low speed control during landing on carrier/lhd
Navantia and L&T Unveil LPD for India
Navantia is highly devoted to ‘Make in India’ premises and offers a well proven design that will contribute to the national defence and security, as well as the transfer of technology, not only in the area of design, but also in expert technical support on production, planning, trials and life...
www.spsnavalforces.com
And its well within IN's TPCR-2025 requirements as well (Slide/Page No-39):
Length Overall | 214.19 m (TPCR - 220m +/-5%)
Full Load Displacement | 27,000 tonnes (TPCR - 29000T +/- 10%)
Current requirement also ask for drone operations.Navantia and L&T Unveil LPD for India
Navantia is highly devoted to ‘Make in India’ premises and offers a well proven design that will contribute to the national defence and security, as well as the transfer of technology, not only in the area of design, but also in expert technical support on production, planning, trials and life...www.spsnavalforces.com
And its well within IN's TPCR-2025 requirements as well (Slide/Page No-39):
Length Overall | 214.19 m (TPCR - 220m +/-5%)
Full Load Displacement | 27,000 tonnes (TPCR - 29000T +/- 10%)
This modified design lacks ski jump.
( the original has it)
Would increase mass, further reduce endurance and payload capacity. Largely making it useless in ant-ship/surface/submarine ops.
This design was in response to earlier tender. Those restrictions are no longer there.Navantia and L&T Unveil LPD for India
Navantia is highly devoted to ‘Make in India’ premises and offers a well proven design that will contribute to the national defence and security, as well as the transfer of technology, not only in the area of design, but also in expert technical support on production, planning, trials and life...www.spsnavalforces.com
And its well within IN's TPCR-2025 requirements as well (Slide/Page No-39):
Length Overall | 214.19 m (TPCR - 220m +/-5%)
Full Load Displacement | 27,000 tonnes (TPCR - 29000T +/- 10%)
I wouldn't say it.
It being useless will depend on how much reduction happens.
B2 bomber, if we use its max thrust and mtow than it has ~2kn of thrust per ton.
Ghatak with 13ton mtow and 49kn kaveri dry, will have 3.76kn per ton of thrust.
Though b2 is not a high subsonic plane, ghatak is.
So even with higher mtow( modified design for low speed handling, more fuel for afterburner, after burner section for take off from ski jump) of around 15-16 tons, it will have 3 or 3+ kn per ton of dry thrust.
So we can sacrifice some speed, instead of range and payload.
New b21 raider has 3kn of thrust per ton.
Yup! That was their offering in 2018. But Navantia have shown willingness to implement, significant changes, if their customer demand it. Also high time we finally get this LPD mess, cleared.
The Turkish Navy test flew TB-2 series drones from their LHD based on Navantia JC-1 design earlier this year. The TO run required the entire length of the 200m+ flight deck but it was successful.
For jet powered drones though, we'll probably need to develop restraining stands similar to the ones used on INS Vikramaditya to launch MiG-29K.
Turkish Navy Achieves Breakthrough in Carrier-Based Drone Operations
The Turkish Navy and drone manufacturer Baykar appear to have achieved a notable advance in the use of drones from flat tops during the recent Exerci...
maritime-executive.com
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Can we not have a small emals.The Turkish Navy test flew TB-2 series drones from their LHD based on Navantia JC-1 design earlier this year. The TO run required the entire length of the 200m+ flight deck but it was successful.
For jet powered drones though, we'll probably need to develop restraining stands similar to the ones used on INS Vikramaditya to launch MiG-29K.
Turkish Navy Achieves Breakthrough in Carrier-Based Drone Operations
The Turkish Navy and drone manufacturer Baykar appear to have achieved a notable advance in the use of drones from flat tops during the recent Exerci...
Not for complete launch, but just to give initial acceleration.
~200 meter runway, 13°ski jump, and at the start of runway, a small 20-30 meters emals for initial acceleration.
This emals, would be lot more easy and cheaper to develop than full size ones, lower power needed, lower stress on emals & aircraft body, lower maintenance, less space needed etc.
Drdo should be capable of developing this size one.
And a 30k ton carrier can have PowerPoint powering it without much hurdle.
Development, testing and qualification on a land based SBTF alone could take a long time. Not an apples to apples comparison but look how long it's taken NMRL-L&T to test its AIP.
But then again the LPH prog is still in its early stages right now. So who knows, it just might be possible.
Those amphibious carriers ain't coming before 2033-2035.
A decade is good enough time.
See the thing is that if we move towards aviation based strike capabilities from this ship, we will compromise on its main role. The amphibious support role.
The well deck, need to carry around 600 equipped troops will take up lot of space, leaving little space for hanger.
If we focus on ucavs more then the hanger space will be bigger.
The same dilemma Americans faced with America Class.
Another thing is that do we want to add Brahmos+ MRSAM combo on this? If yes, then that takes up even more space.
And as a Command and Control ship, you will want assets like Ka31 onboard.
The well deck, need to carry around 600 equipped troops will take up lot of space, leaving little space for hanger.
If we focus on ucavs more then the hanger space will be bigger.
The same dilemma Americans faced with America Class.
Another thing is that do we want to add Brahmos+ MRSAM combo on this? If yes, then that takes up even more space.
And as a Command and Control ship, you will want assets like Ka31 onboard.
Then don't have a hanger, a flight deck only LHD.
Or we can go new Italian trieste style which has both hanger and flood able well deck.(~38k tons)
Chinese latest type 076 also has well deck while having an emals.
The rfi Of indian navy, mentioned drone operation.
We don't need dedicated hanger space, but drone operations are planned from flight deck, so a mini emals for better operations doesn't hurt other capabilities, while enhancing aerial capabilities a lot.