Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

pic by Rethik on twitter

View attachment 44805

Dhanush doesn’t have a seeker. It’s a navalised version of Prithvi 2.

There’s no way it can have 750 km range.

There are many wrong stuff in his presentation.

The speed is same for all K series missiles. He talks about LRSAM and LRSAM ER with 100 and 150 km range respectively. His presentation contains Akash 2 with 40 km range.
 
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Lol, No. Its just impossible to make guide a ballistic missile like that. People are so gullible.
Actually it can be done via specific programmed control actuation engagement that shape trajectory accordingly and fly in a different path than the expected ballistic minimum energy elliptical/parabolic path all while being guided. Old days there was no datalink provision, so the trajectory was programmed offline put into the missile obc and then the missile is tracked after launched to see if all phases of flight happens as per programming. Any deviation found needed again program code correction of the specific constraints at the specific point.

K4 also retained the fins due to this, to shape boost phase flight path so it satisfy the specific kinematic thrust before the mid course start. Hence the flight tests are so programming exhaustive.

See in the video how they did with old prithvi 2


View attachment G5EQi5fkL60zlNmS.mp4
 
Yes, you are correct. It's a liquid propellant-based, very accurate missile with a CEP of 1 meter. It can be used as an antiship missile, which is stationary at that moment. Not sure if they have added any seeker to it .

Since when did Prithvi start having a 1 m CEP?

Even modern SSM with a seeker don’t have 1 m CEP.
 
Dhanush doesn’t have a seeker. It’s a navalised version of Prithvi 2.

There’s no way it can have 750 km range.

There are many wrong stuff in his presentation.

The speed is same for all K series missiles. He talks about LRSAM and LRSAM ER with 100 and 150 km range respectively. His presentation contains Akash 2 with 40 km range.
lower payload, anti ship 200kg class and you get a decent range out of it. Anyway navy has interesting stuff done in house so we will never be able to second guess them.

few stuff are obviously generic info shown, in fact most of the stuff. All agnis with different motor dia can not have same speed either even if you fill in with same propellant (which also does not happen but that's a different story).
 
lower payload, anti ship 200kg class and you get a decent range out of it. Anyway navy has interesting stuff done in house so we will never be able to second guess them.

few stuff are obviously generic info shown, in fact most of the stuff. All agnis with different motor dia can not have same speed either even if you fill in with same propellant (which also does not happen but that's a different story).

Payload isn’t the factor here.

Where is the rf seeker required for terminal guidance?

Dhanush was used as a poor man’s strategic deterrent by forming the third leg of nuclear triad.

Was used on Sukanya class OPV.

After Arihant class of SSBN started operational patrols, Dhanush became redundant and now the two OPV with Dhanush had their launch mechanisms removed. Meaning it’s no longer in service.

There are sat pics to support this.
 
Payload isn’t the factor here.

Where is the rf seeker required for terminal guidance?

Dhanush was used as a poor man’s strategic deterrent by forming the third leg of nuclear triad.

Was used on Sukanya class OPV.

After Arihant class of SSBN started operational patrols, Dhanush became redundant and now the two OPV with Dhanush had their launch mechanisms removed. Meaning it’s no longer in service.

There are sat pics to support this.
Was always prepared/deployed in primary land attack role , but if needed maybe the anti ship is for attacking ships tied in the harbour or fuel delivery ship/cargo ship that are large in size and rather static comparatively. Guidance you can probably deploy a strap down temporary jugaad or provide via other means, I am not sure. It is quite obvious that since OPV class boat was used as launcher, the entire system was somewhat makeshift that pays good dividend during wartime in a Karachi Port attack kind of mission. Dr Saraswat also hinted before the makeshift launchpad was a choice that you can deploy at a short notice, it bypasses enemy recon effort thereby increase the surprise potential much more than a missile attack ship. A very practical thinking I have to say if it were indeed so.
 
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I was just about to post these, thanks for doing it already, however mandatory caution, do not take these numbers from any of these slides super seriously,

These slides are from Kerala Technology Expo (KTX) 2025 presentation by a retired Brahmos Aerospace MD Anthony Joseph and while it's true he has more access to such information than most of us, Its also very clear that since most of these are DRDO projects with no Brahmos Aerospace involvement, most data presented here is taken from the internet with slight modifications based on insider knowledge.

Thus, I would suggest to excercise caution and don't take these slides seriously as it looks like a hastily put together presentation for a low level event.

Compared to tresure trove of data we see from DRDO folks in IIT lecture halls, this data here is nothing.

No 100 km (LRSAM) or 150 km (ERSAM) variant of Barak 8 exists,
LR-LACM/Nirbhay's range is wrong,
K-15's range is wrong,
Helina's range is wrong
ASAT missile's range is wrong
Akash NG's range is wrong
VL-SRSAM's range is wrong
Brahmos 2 is a dead project
KS 172 is a dead project


The only 100% correct and new info here are the details of Pinaka MLRS and the Indian HGV, yes that thing will have a 5000+ km range
 
Payload isn’t the factor here.

Where is the rf seeker required for terminal guidance?

Dhanush was used as a poor man’s strategic deterrent by forming the third leg of nuclear triad.

Was used on Sukanya class OPV.

After Arihant class of SSBN started operational patrols, Dhanush became redundant and now the two OPV with Dhanush had their launch mechanisms removed. Meaning it’s no longer in service.

There are sat pics to support this.
Afaik, Prithvi family missiles didn't get a seeker until the PAD interceptor came along in around 2005. That missile carried our first gen ARH seeker (miniaturized mmr derivative from LCA prog).

Unlikely that Dhanush would've had an anti-ship role. The Prithvi's were slow compared to other missiles in the same class. Although Dhanush itself had a SRM, the airframe itself wouldve been dragged with the 4 large mid-body fins. Just my 2 cents, ofc.
 
I was just about to post these, thanks for doing it already, however mandatory caution, do not take these numbers from any of these slides super seriously,

These slides are from Kerala Technology Expo (KTX) 2025 presentation by a retired Brahmos Aerospace MD Anthony Joseph and while it's true he has more access to such information than most of us, Its also very clear that since most of these are DRDO projects with no Brahmos Aerospace involvement, most data presented here is taken from the internet with slight modifications based on insider knowledge.

Thus, I would suggest to excercise caution and don't take these slides seriously as it looks like a hastily put together presentation for a low level event.

Compared to tresure trove of data we see from DRDO folks in IIT lecture halls, this data here is nothing.

No 100 km (LRSAM) or 150 km (ERSAM) variant of Barak 8 exists,
LR-LACM/Nirbhay's range is wrong,
K-15's range is wrong,
Helina's range is wrong
ASAT missile's range is wrong
Akash NG's range is wrong
VL-SRSAM's range is wrong
Brahmos 2 is a dead project
KS 172 is a dead project


The only 100% correct and new info here are the details of Pinaka MLRS and the Indian HGV, yes that thing will have a 5000+ km range
I thought LRSAM variant is there with 100 km?
 
No 100 km (LRSAM) or 150 km (ERSAM) variant of Barak 8 exists,
Other ones are debatable, but this part of common MRSAM 70 km vs LRSAM IAC 100km part is likely true and can be done with specific trajectory optimisation work via specific program based control. Basically it will be computation exhaustive, multiple pre programmed model will provide the control algo for the missile and given IAC are high value strategic asset it needed a better version installed (since Kusha is not ready yet).

read the below part from a drdl paper how the flight vehicle launch range can be extended without modification.

1750838024742.png
1750837680133.png
 
Actually it can be done via specific programmed control actuation engagement that shape trajectory accordingly and fly in a different path than the expected ballistic minimum energy elliptical/parabolic path all while being guided. Old days there was no datalink provision, so the trajectory was programmed offline put into the missile obc and then the missile is tracked after launched to see if all phases of flight happens as per programming. Any deviation found needed again program code correction of the specific constraints at the specific point.

K4 also retained the fins due to this, to shape boost phase flight path so it satisfy the specific kinematic thrust before the mid course start. Hence the flight tests are so programming exhaustive.

See in the video how they did with old prithvi 2


View attachment 44819
The point of "Anti-ship" is identifying the ship during terminal phase, none of this. We definitely didn't have such technology during the Dhanush era.

Other ones are debatable, but this part of common MRSAM 70 km vs LRSAM IAC 100km part is likely true and can be done with specific trajectory optimisation work via specific program based control. Basically it will be computation exhaustive, multiple pre programmed model will provide the control algo for the missile and given IAC are high value strategic asset it needed a better version installed (since Kusha is not ready yet).

read the below part from a drdl paper how the flight vehicle launch range can be extended without modification.

View attachment 44832
View attachment 44831
DRDL made dual pulse motor achieved 90km a long back.
 
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The point of "Anti-ship" is identifying the ship during terminal phase, none of this. We definitely didn't have such technology during the Dhanush era.
I mean from a practical perspective , anti ship role can also be hitting a large container ship that is either slow moving or anchor dropped just outside a harbour, with precious enemy cargo in it (oil, steel, anything vital for wartime use). So technically such a ship hit would still be classified as anti ship mission but given it is a very large ship a larger payload can be used with Dhanush from a makeshift setup platform. Basically the sort of stuff houthis were doing. With correct guidance mechanism such a mission can be pulled off during wartime without exposing capital warships for such secondary role. Those ships can do other mission like hitting port infra or tackling enemy warship.
 
I mean from a practical perspective , anti ship role can also be hitting a large container ship that is either slow moving or anchor dropped just outside a harbour, with precious enemy cargo in it (oil, steel, anything vital for wartime use). So technically such a ship hit would still be classified as anti ship mission but given it is a very large ship a larger payload can be used with Dhanush from a makeshift setup platform. Basically the sort of stuff houthis were doing. With correct guidance mechanism such a mission can be pulled off during wartime without exposing capital warships for such secondary role. Those ships can do other mission like hitting port infra or tackling enemy warship.
But dhanush from what I know were for nuclear role.
So I assume few missiles onboard the ships were armed with nuclear warhead.
 
But dhanush from what I know were for nuclear role.
So I assume few missiles onboard the ships were armed with nuclear warhead.
It is up to the user to decide . My point is that such a limited anti ship side mission is also possible to do by Dhanush due to 500kg class payload and high impact energy. Very good accuracy is needed and a careful planning of mission can be done by the mission command by using less suspecting secondary surface ship. Its a very good jugaad option that can catch enemy by surprise.

Of course you can send multiple Uran missiles too for the job.
 
It is up to the user to decide . My point is that such a limited anti ship side mission is also possible to do by Dhanush due to 500kg class payload and high impact energy. Very good accuracy is needed and a careful planning of mission can be done by the mission command by using less suspecting secondary surface ship. Its a very good jugaad option that can catch enemy by surprise.

Of course you can send multiple Uran missiles too for the job.
It can.
But my original question was were they used for anti ship role? The answer seems to be no.