Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Ashwin

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69499B8D-9DAA-453A-97EE-C67C99997FE9.jpeg

VL-SRSAM test fire from Rajput class.
 

Fatalis

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Sep 30, 2022
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Hello all,

I remember seeing an image where it was mentioned that our upcoming AD-1 will be better than Aster-30. But aren't we already having MRSAM in similar role except the Pif-Paf. MRSAM is even lighter than Aster-30 and has similar range and performance.

What kind of improvements can we expect from AD-1 over the MRSAM?
 

Ashwin

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Hello all,

I remember seeing an image where it was mentioned that our upcoming AD-1 will be better than Aster-30. But aren't we already having MRSAM in similar role except the Pif-Paf. MRSAM is even lighter than Aster-30 and has similar range and performance.

What kind of improvements can we expect from AD-1 over the MRSAM?
Altitude, better acceleration and range. AD-1 is part of BMD phase 2. So its not a regular SAM.

A better comparison would be with Aster 30 Block 1NT and Block 2 BMB versions.
 

Fatalis

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Altitude, better acceleration and range. AD-1 is part of BMD phase 2. So its not a regular SAM.

A better comparison would be with Aster 30 Block 1NT and Block 2 BMB versions.
Block 2 will not be developed separately. It will part of Europe's TWISTER program.

So, if they are planning to use Block 1NT for BMD then can they achieve both air defence as well as BMD from the same missile? Can it be achieved? If yes then we might see AD-1 having naval applications as well on our future capital ships.
 

Parthu

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Hello all,

I remember seeing an image where it was mentioned that our upcoming AD-1 will be better than Aster-30. But aren't we already having MRSAM in similar role except the Pif-Paf. MRSAM is even lighter than Aster-30 and has similar range and performance.

What kind of improvements can we expect from AD-1 over the MRSAM?

What @Ashwin said.

Besides, let's not forget that no Indian customer has as yet ordered or even shown interest in the Barak-8ER variant - which is what is comparable to Aster-30. We only have the standard 70-90km Barak-8 in both Land & Ship-based versions. Kinematics-wise, its inferior to Aster-30 by a considerable margin due to lack of the add-on solid booster.

Block 2 will not be developed separately. It will part of Europe's TWISTER program.

So, if they are planning to use Block 1NT for BMD then can they achieve both air defence as well as BMD from the same missile? Can it be achieved? If yes then we might see AD-1 having naval applications as well on our future capital ships.

The Aster, at least as far as the Block 1NT goes, can never be a very good BMD platform on its own. It's mostly a stop-gap solution to add a modicum of BMD capabilities to an otherwise AAW-focused system. You need an Imaging Infra-Red (IIR)-based seeker to truly become a theatre-level BMD which is what the American Standard Missile (SM)-series does (and our AD-2). Block-1NT still uses a RF seeker which isn't the greatest when it comes to BMD.

I've no idea if they plan on changing it up on the Block-2.

Bottomline, Block-1NT alone cannot offer you theatre-level BMD capabilities like SM3 does. 1NT is just in the AD-1 class, but it remains to be seen if Block-2 will be something comparable to AD-2 or not. If not, our BMD solution will be much more comprehensive than the Aster.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Hello all,

I remember seeing an image where it was mentioned that our upcoming AD-1 will be better than Aster-30. But aren't we already having MRSAM in similar role except the Pif-Paf. MRSAM is even lighter than Aster-30 and has similar range and performance.

What kind of improvements can we expect from AD-1 over the MRSAM?

MRSAM isn't BMD. It can defeat some types of TBMs, like Prithvi, but it can't defeat more advanced threats like the Iskander or PrSM, which require dedicated BMD or S-300/400 class defences. MRSAM is CMD, with some ability to attack short range, slow BMs, like Nasr, Prahar, ATACMS etc, so it's in a different class entirely compared to BMD.
The Aster, at least as far as the Block 1NT goes, can never be a very good BMD platform on its own. It's mostly a stop-gap solution to add a modicum of BMD capabilities to an otherwise AAW-focused system. You need an Imaging Infra-Red (IIR)-based seeker to truly become a theatre-level BMD which is what the American Standard Missile (SM)-series does (and our AD-2). Block-1NT still uses a RF seeker which isn't the greatest when it comes to BMD.

I've no idea if they plan on changing it up on the Block-2.

Bottomline, Block-1NT alone cannot offer you theatre-level BMD capabilities like SM3 does. 1NT is just in the AD-1 class, but it remains to be seen if Block-2 will be something comparable to AD-2 or not. If not, our BMD solution will be much more comprehensive than the Aster.

IIR seeker is only useful in space. Inside the atmosphere, you need an RF seeker.
 

Aditya b7777

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MRSAM isn't BMD. It can defeat some types of TBMs, like Prithvi, but it can't defeat more advanced threats like the Iskander or PrSM, which require dedicated BMD or S-300/400 class defences. MRSAM is CMD, with some ability to attack short range, slow BMs, like Nasr, Prahar, ATACMS etc, so it's in a different class entirely compared to BMD.


IIR seeker is only useful in space. Inside the atmosphere, you need an RF seeker.
Didn’t the Barak-8 with Azerbaijan intercept an Iskander over Baku?
 

Fatalis

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Sep 30, 2022
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One interesting which I observed that may or may not be true is that the canister which stores the VL-SRSAM is not inserted inside the vertical launcher instead the canister itself becomes the part of the vertical launching system. If you take out the canister then there will be only empty space.

So, I can assume that VLS of VL-SRSAM is actually an empty cage containing 8 launchers joined with a common exhaust duct.

Hope, I made sense.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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One interesting which I observed that may or may not be true is that the canister which stores the VL-SRSAM is not inserted inside the vertical launcher instead the canister itself becomes the part of the vertical launching system. If you take out the canister then there will be only empty space.

So, I can assume that VLS of VL-SRSAM is actually an empty cage containing 8 launchers joined with a common exhaust duct.

Hope, I made sense.
Untill we actually see a pic of the module installed, it will be difficult to guess.
 
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Ashwin

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