How can we be so autistic, that we dont even allow pictures of our SSBN to float around, we can detonate nukes secretely while under surveillance from $2 billion US satellites, but in other cases we always get our pants down.
Indian Hypersonic Propulsion Developments
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
At present the nook subs we got are not even glorified SSN standard. S2 & S3 are more of TD, but because these cost so high we have to find a use for it to justify the capex. These 2 may be well enough for a Pak level deterrence for now, we have to see how the S4 go. Then from the next gen sub onward it can be termed proper SSBN with proper goodies.
Nuke testing is probably way more complex than that esp from preparation, data acquisition & containment pov plus the cost involved. Since today the computerised simulator do a near enough job, actual test validation can be reduced.
I don't think you understood the context of my comment. I stated that in both of those programs, India has very very high levels of secrecy. There are like maybe 6-7 pics of Arihant class subs only. And I need not say more about nuclear program. But in other matters like this we're so dumb. Who allows Chinese phones to operate in sensitive areas?
BTW S2 is TD but S3 has K4 I'm very sure or at least is going to get K4 very soon thus making it (albeit a very small) deterrent against China. S3 tested K4 successfully barely months after it was cleared for ops. And S4 is likely already in the water doing tests and validations.
That was a totally open event to anyone, hence was held in the stadium. Fully approved & arranged by the missile cluster labs together. There were 2 separate events that day, the lab visit by the RM VIPs was a closed event & from there the fully integrated Dhvani picture got leaked from a female journalist taken photo. Was completely unintentional.
The above images were from some msme company booth where they showed these stuff, entirely public event no issue. We have chinese presence in every city in the eastern part anyway.
Arihants are easily viewable over gugul map so maybe they are not that concerned.
In all the available or rumoured info game, the one specific that is & will remain a top secret confidential data is the dia of the Arihant silo tubes. That is the vital info no one will ever tell or even get leaked. You will find dia of the sub but not that particular information.
Also DR Anil Kumar did mentioned that the LRAShM is going for production now, LRAShM, Dhvani, ET LDHCM have created buzz for themselves, whereas BM-04 despite having debut in public, there's no info or updates about it or the buzz, any News about it's test, i don't think BM-04 is his actual name, 04 could be the missile production number just as lRAShM
Production despite only 2 tests? Perhaps they did more tests secretly.
Im sure Arighat ie S3 can carry K4 but not Arihant. Because Arighat launched K4 very soon after it's commissioning, so we know it can carry K4. But not Arihant. Arihant is indeed likely a TD.
as far as i know he said it would take another 2-3 years for all trials to finish for the LRAShM in some interview? when did he say this? because if true that is very big news but i havent heard any noise about this?
The missile itself went thru a generation change ie moved from maraging steel airframe body to composite body, better avionics, composite propellant etc which reduced the overall weight & increased confidence about the performance of the rocket motor, which led to ASAT using the same K4 booster. If there is such change in the core article, the underwater launch system also needs to be fine tuned around it and proven once more.
When Arihant came k4 was not that ready to be fired from a sub, it takes lots of pontoon firing to prove and perfect the underwater launch system. There is a good presentation on this by some ANSP scientist.
In its case, the booster motor is already well established & DRDO has data on hand from many test firing, avionics are proven, Rf seeker a bit too even with future mk scope also there, better nav package with Ifog based guidance. So once the core enabling tech are well established and available, the overall integrated system will move way faster in its development curve than a time when DRDO was building subsystems and proving those alongside the missile development. This is what maturity & expertise bring in terms of development, the cycle gets short with each generation.
I think they do need to conduct more K4 tests from Arighat to validate it. Whether Arighat is armed with K4 rn we wont know but we do know it can launch K4. The underwater launch system is less powerful than Russian or US ones me thinks, because K4 uses a nose cone rocket to push itself out. Wdyt?
That would be submarine firing , which is to be proven and cleared for submarine firing (capital trial or something) by DRDO side of development work.
So there are different phases in terms of development. First you develop and prove the entire system based on pontoon (after all the ground based work etc) then the full system should be cleared for the platform based trials first from a simulated platform then when reliable enough (reliability & IVV independent verification & validation studies with clearance are involved at every step of the process) you finally have enough confidence for direct firing from a sub you go on. For this navy has to allow modification & installation on a sub which need to be insured obviously in case any accident. Project allocation has to provision for such fund allotment because Navy won't pay that bill so it comes from PMO probably.
Then finally the whole system ie canisters, launch tech, missile, system installation inside the sub, anti vibration fitment etc many such things are complete then firing from the sub happens. In the first 1-2 cases it is DRDO who take the lead under navy or SFC as observer. With successful firing complete and report submitted, then DRDO has to handover and train Navy/SFC/submarine grp people on the whole matter so the submariners can operate it on their own.
Then in the next stage Navy/strategic force people take over and DRDO side work becomes as technical observer and assistance ie DRDO side is no longer the lead but present there to assist with the Naval/SFC command along with the pvt vendor pool who were involved. Navy has to do the whole firing mission, they would provide DRDO with their choice of config so they can prepare the programming for proof firing. Once fired and test complete DRDO side role is to validate the test case data and match it with data gathered during the test by tracking & telemetry. This is done to check whether the missile did everything as it was programmed for.
In the last K4 test which many said was failed, the Naval chief said during a question that they fired it and now they were checking whether everything was ok. This is done by matching test data with telemetry gathered data which is DRDO side of work under lead agency Navy/SFC. The missile worked like textbook, it did its mission exactly how navy wanted it to do, made the precise maneuvers and splashdown was where they wanted it to.
Since K4 is like IRBM class, it shows we have option available not only in ICBM range naval nuke triad via K5, we have every range modulus covered from MRBM upto 1500km to IRBM K4 4000km to future K5. What is implemented in land based system is repeated for underwater system too. Conical rv perform the best with a total high payload package as its second strike option so delivery needs to be precise and heavy. It will deliver (multi) megaton equivalent overall if ever used.
I hope you all observed that one is called glide missile and another as glide vehicle.
A missile will have active propulsion. Therefore LR-AShM has rocket motor sustainer embedded within the glide body. Not to be used for major part of the flight when gliding across various atmospheric level. Change in lift to drag ratio due to fuel burn (ie weight reduction mid flight) may cause instability during that glide phase + the lift generated at initial high speed regime of 10 mach dropping down up to 7 mach is more significant than any rocket motor induced kinetic thrust. Hence it explained why its called a hybrid projectile.
The other aspect with LR-AShM is the warhead, SAM & fuzing. Since its for conventional use, it is non-nuke ie it will use a conventional anti ship warhead. Existing warhead design & SAM (safety & arming mechanism) are all designed for supersonic impact much like Brahmos. The fuzing system can sustain impact velocity upto 2000 m/sec. Such a warhead with fuzing & arming mechanism is not useful with LRAShM, you can not use it and mere kinetic impact will not enforce enough damage on a large carrier ship, significant but not the intended killer blow.
Therefore ARDE has been sanctioned to develop futuristic warhead for higher kinetic velocity impact, fuzing & safety arming mechanism development. This will be used once ready & certified. It indicated that the main article was at a high degree of readiness development curve wise.
Do you think we have megaton range nukes? What do you feel about the matter personally? I think we can make them but we need to test it before operational deployment. For now imo our nukes range from 12 kt - 200 kt.
I know very little about the nuke part. it is aimed that the overall yield will match the intended megaton level.
Modi has said that India has Mother of all Nuke Bomb. it is certainly not 200KW bomb.
Sir ji, link or any source milega kya is statement ka
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Also, I have another thinking.... Perhaps because the range of this missile is not even IRBM, its terminal speed is not massive. Perhaps 2-2.5 Mach in its last moments. That makes sense because some KE will be lost doing skip glide manuvers. So to keep the terminal velocity indeed hypersonic it will be firing its motor to top up KE lost. The flip side is that it will less stealth compared to pure boost glide. I think Iran has similar missile design. Indian scientists are chosing kinematic performance over stealth. This will not be the first time. Brahmos is lso very visible but hard to target compare to say nirbhay missile.
It is meant to hit ships and other mobile targets on sea. This mean it will need constant updates during flight. not just during the part where its surfaces could get it really good steering but in case that steering is not enough the motor can correct the course. This is typical of a AShM missile with terminal guidance. Compare this with likes of DF-ZF which hits static targets.
Also, I have another thinking.... Perhaps because the range of this missile is not even IRBM, its terminal speed is not massive. Perhaps 2-2.5 Mach in its last moments. That makes sense because some KE will be lost doing skip glide manuvers. So to keep the terminal velocity indeed hypersonic it will be firing its motor to top up KE lost. The flip side is that it will less stealth compared to pure boost glide. I think Iran has similar missile design. Indian scientists are chosing kinematic performance over stealth. This will not be the first time. Brahmos is lso very visible but hard to target compare to say nirbhay missile.