Indian Hypersonic Propulsion Developments

[lmaoxd]

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havent we alr done the 1000 second scramjet test?

With key ground test for over 1000 seconds, DRDO achieves 'significant milestone' in scramjet engine development | India News - The Times of India

India News: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has achieved a significant milestone by conducting a scramjet combustor ground test for over

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

yea we did. Thats nice looks like development is indeed going around quite fast. excited for the ETLDHCM

 

[HariPrasad]

This seems more like political rhetoric, no? I doubt he would indicate any such things at a campaign rally. Maybe if he was attending a formal event at vigyan bhavan or some.

He will not say this in rally if India does not have this. When we tested Shakti, it was said that we had 200 KN bomb capacity at that time. India had a plan to develop MT class bomb in next decade to Decade and half. I believe it is done.

 

[FenicromovCW]

He will not say this in rally if India does not have this. When we tested Shakti, it was said that we had 200 KN bomb capacity at that time. India had a plan to develop MT class bomb in next decade to Decade and half. I believe it is done.

MT Bombs are ok for capacity demonstration, but 100-300 KT bombs with MIRV is the thing where real game happens. MMT bombs have niche use for NEMPs.

 

[ShiroBarks]

MT Bombs are ok for capacity demonstration, but 100-300 KT bombs with MIRV is the thing where real game happens. MMT bombs have niche use for NEMPs.

Had a nice discussion on the topic

https://twitter.com/x/status/1956926843216388604

 

[RationalGuy]

He will not say this in rally if India does not have this. When we tested Shakti, it was said that we had 200 KN bomb capacity at that time. India had a plan to develop MT class bomb in next decade to Decade and half. I believe it is done.

Megaton class design was worked on even in 1980s and likely India already has a design for 1-2 megatons or it had the groundwork to make one within 6-8 months.

 

[RationalGuy]

Had a nice discussion on the topic

https://twitter.com/x/status/1956926843216388604

View attachment 47980

Hmmm. It depends on how spaced out the 100 kt bombs will bo though right. For a 1 megaton class bomb if it's air burst then it may be more destructive unless 100 kt are spread out over a large area through MIRV. I actually did simulations on this using the NukeMap website over a major city of the eastern adversary, like 1 megaton vs 3-4 spread out 150 kt blasts. The 1 megaton air burst did more damage and deaths iirc, especially when dropped over denser areas. There's also the issue of accuracy as MIRVed warheads are less accurate than single warhead. Imo India needs a deployed 1 megaton weapon, but the bulk should be 250-300 kilotons along with some 5 kiloton warheads for nuclear torpedoes to destroy enemy aircraft carriers, cruise missiles for air bases, military bases etc. So 1 megaton, 250-300 kiloton and 5 kiloton.

Of course if you want to destroy a hardened target underground or inside mountain, you definitely need a multi megaton warhead with penetration capabilities. 300 kilotons wont cut it.

MT Bombs are ok for capacity demonstration, but 100-300 KT bombs with MIRV is the thing where real game happens. MMT bombs have niche use for NEMPs.

Actually in a research paper it was revealed pure fission weapons of even 15-20 kilotons are more effective as EMP weapons as compared to 2 stage thermonuclear weapons for reasons I forgot.

 

[RationalGuy]

MT Bombs are ok for capacity demonstration, but 100-300 KT bombs with MIRV is the thing where real game happens. MMT bombs have niche use for NEMPs.

Actually in a research paper it was revealed pure fission weapons of even 15-20 kilotons are more effective as EMP weapons as compared to 2 stage thermonuclear weapons for reasons I forgot.

 

[RationalGuy]

@ShiroBarks @FenicromovCW @South block @saho @Rajput Lion a potentially interesting website for you which simulated casualty rate and destruction zone of nuclear weapons of different yields: NUKEMAP by Alex Wellerstein . As you can see air burst is far more devastating than ground burst.

Also an interesting article on single stage fission weapon vs 2 stage thermonuclear for NEMP:EMP radiation from nuclear space bursts in 1962
"Single stage (fission) weapons in some cases produce a larger EMP than high-yield two-stage thermonuclear weapons, mentioned above."

 

[redpanda]

Megaton class design was worked on even in 1980s and likely India already has a design for 1-2 megatons or it had the groundwork to make one within 6-8 months.

I never looked into this. So I'm kinda curious do we have the capabilities or did our guys have ever try to design a Hydrogen Bomb? Is there anything in the public domain about that?

 

[RationalGuy]

I never looked into this. So I'm kinda curious do we have the capabilities or did our guys have ever try to design a Hydrogen Bomb? Is there anything in the public domain about that?

See we already have hydrogen bomb, we tested one in 1998 Shakti 1. There are pure fission, boosted fission, and multi stage thermonuclear weapons. We have tested all three. The pure fission weapon was tested in 1974, and it achieved a yield of 8-10 kilotons. And the primary stage of our 1998 hydrogen bomb test was a boosted fission device, which was revealed by Shri P Sikka who was the lead scientist for the hydrogen bomb effort under the supervision of R Chidambaram. Ppl say 1998 test didnt suceed,I think it largely did, primary stage 100% ignited and at worst secondary fusion stage ignited partially.

Now for megaton class weapons, it was also revealed we were working on a megaton class weapon in the 1980s itself and some basic designs were ready. Now what happened to those designs, the readiness of those designs are classified information obviously. Imo, they were basic calculations and some conceptual studies and not a ready testable design, as in the book Weapons of Peace it was stated that the hydrogen bomb design was not done even by 1995 when Vajpayee wanted to test. Infact in 1995 we were so close to testing 3 nuclear devices were lowered into the shaft at Pokhran, but all 3 were either fission or boosted fission designs, not a true multi stage weapon.

In my opinion considering the data, supercomputers etc we have, if we want we can have a 1 megaton design ready in barely 6-8 months maybe even lower. China in 1960s immediately started a hydrogen bomb development program and barely 2 years after their atomic bomb test they conducted a 3 megaton weaponized hydrogen bomb test (fastest any country went from a bomb yo hydrogen bomb) and they did it using 1960s tech. So for us now, it will take merely months from project sanction to make multi megaton weapon design ready for a test. We already have mastered fission and boosted fission weapons and we already have a grasp on making multi stage designs for past 30 years almost.

 

[RationalGuy]

Also @redpanda @ShiroBarks read Weapons of Peace by Raj Chengappa, your mind will be blown away by the real story of how India got the bomb and the missiles to deliver them.

 

[redpanda]

Also @redpanda read Weapons of Peace by Raj Chengappa, your mind will be blown away by the real story of how India got the bomb and the missiles to deliver them.

Thank you. I will look into it.

 

[RationalGuy]

Thank you. I will look into it.

The book in physical copy isn't available anymore I'm afraid but you can access the book here:

Weapons of peace : the secret story of India's quest to be a nuclear power : Chengappa, Raj : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

xvi, 489 p. : 24 cm

archive.org

And this is a general summary on the Indian nuclear weapons program as well as for other countries but it was written in 2001 so it doesn't have info on stuff after Agni 1

India's Nuclear Weapons Program

@Rajput Lion @ShiroBarks @_Anonymous_ @Parthu @Ashwin @marich01 and others I would highly advise you to read this book and article as well. They are very revealing of India's long effort to attain deterrence.

 

[FenicromovCW]

@ShiroBarks @FenicromovCW @South block @saho @Rajput Lion a potentially interesting website for you which simulated casualty rate and destruction zone of nuclear weapons of different yields: NUKEMAP by Alex Wellerstein . As you can see air burst is far more devastating than ground burst.

Also an interesting article on single stage fission weapon vs 2 stage thermonuclear for NEMP:EMP radiation from nuclear space bursts in 1962
"Single stage (fission) weapons in some cases produce a larger EMP than high-yield two-stage thermonuclear weapons, mentioned above."

Long back when none of us was part of this forum, and everyone was member of other forum, so many of our stalwarts discussed this topic there in detail, among which vstol Jockey and Sancho were main parties in discussion. It was told there that the main use of MIRV to get nuke detonation in particular sequence, which will generate optimum overpressure to cover more area of destruction ( > 5 psi) than equivalent yield of a megatons of nuke or multiple nukes detonated independently. It was also told that for covering whole Pakistan (significant population), will require around 75 Nukes. This topic was such popular at that time that some Pakistan TV program covered it in his story.

If free our vstol Jockey sir may take a class again on this topic.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Long back when none of us was part of this forum, and everyone was member of other forum, so many of our stalwarts discussed this topic there in detail, among which vstol Jockey and Sancho were main parties in discussion. It was told there that the main use of MIRV to get nuke detonation in particular sequence, which will generate optimum overpressure to cover more area of destruction ( > 5 psi) than equivalent yield of a megatons of nuke or multiple nukes detonated independently. It was also told that for covering whole Pakistan (significant population), will require around 75 Nukes. This topic was such popular at that time that some Pakistan TV program covered it in his story.

If free our vstol Jockey sir may take a class again on this topic.

Yes, I had floated that theory and stated that we can take out 75% of Pak population in just 5 mins.

 

[RationalGuy]

Long back when none of us was part of this forum, and everyone was member of other forum, so many of our stalwarts discussed this topic there in detail, among which vstol Jockey and Sancho were main parties in discussion. It was told there that the main use of MIRV to get nuke detonation in particular sequence, which will generate optimum overpressure to cover more area of destruction ( > 5 psi) than equivalent yield of a megatons of nuke or multiple nukes detonated independently. It was also told that for covering whole Pakistan (significant population), will require around 75 Nukes. This topic was such popular at that time that some Pakistan TV program covered it in his story.

If free our vstol Jockey sir may take a class again on this topic.

Well imo, merely 20-25 1-2 megaton weapons are enough to finish them. I actually did a simulation in NukeMap where I saw what 10-15 15 megaton weapons would do. But alas, I dont think we will ever have 15 megaton weapon.

 

[RationalGuy]

Yes, I had floated that theory and stated that we can take out 75% of Pak population in just 5 mins.

Yes sir. Especially if we have HGVs and HCMs they are cucked even more, and we will have them in next 5 years. But if you ask me if we could I'd rather we invade them and go as one member put it "Hulagu Khan" on them.

 

[HariPrasad]

MT Bombs are ok for capacity demonstration, but 100-300 KT bombs with MIRV is the thing where real game happens. MMT bombs have niche use for NEMPs.

That was true but post was about India's capability to build bomb Rather than on actual destruction comparison.

See we already have hydrogen bomb, we tested one in 1998 Shakti 1. There are pure fission, boosted fission, and multi stage thermonuclear weapons. We have tested all three. The pure fission weapon was tested in 1974, and it achieved a yield of 8-10 kilotons. And the primary stage of our 1998 hydrogen bomb test was a boosted fission device, which was revealed by Shri P Sikka who was the lead scientist for the hydrogen bomb effort under the supervision of R Chidambaram. Ppl say 1998 test didnt suceed,I think it largely did, primary stage 100% ignited and at worst secondary fusion stage ignited partially.

Now for megaton class weapons, it was also revealed we were working on a megaton class weapon in the 1980s itself and some basic designs were ready. Now what happened to those designs, the readiness of those designs are classified information obviously. Imo, they were basic calculations and some conceptual studies and not a ready testable design, as in the book Weapons of Peace it was stated that the hydrogen bomb design was not done even by 1995 when Vajpayee wanted to test. Infact in 1995 we were so close to testing 3 nuclear devices were lowered into the shaft at Pokhran, but all 3 were either fission or boosted fission designs, not a true multi stage weapon.

In my opinion considering the data, supercomputers etc we have, if we want we can have a 1 megaton design ready in barely 6-8 months maybe even lower. China in 1960s immediately started a hydrogen bomb development program and barely 2 years after their atomic bomb test they conducted a 3 megaton weaponized hydrogen bomb test (fastest any country went from a bomb yo hydrogen bomb) and they did it using 1960s tech. So for us now, it will take merely months from project sanction to make multi megaton weapon design ready for a test. We already have mastered fission and boosted fission weapons and we already have a grasp on making multi stage designs for past 30 years almost.

There was an interview of the scientist at that time whose name was Sikka. He told that TN secondary device was ignited with Boosted fission.

 

[RationalGuy]

That was true but post was about India's capability to build bomb Rather than on actual destruction comparison.


There was an interview of the scientist at that time whose name was Sikka. He told that TN secondary device was ignited with Boosted fission.

Yup. Sikka was the lead of the hydrogen bomb design team.

 

[marich01]

This effort on several specific alloy materials have been ongoing for some time, more emphasis now because the application is very near hence demand is getting high.