Indian Army Procurement Paralysis (Rant)

Parthu

Gessler
Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
1,564
3,116
27
Hyderabad, India
The Indian Army's infantry modernization is faltering. There appears that between what the forces claim to want, what the MoD understands of it, and what the state-run research laboratories are capable of delivering (and their disconnect with how things are done across the world, so essentially leading to reinvention of the wheel at every possible step), the Army is simply not getting the gear it deserves and this circus has gone on long enough, simply put.

The basic things that an average infantry soldier of any other country (or at least those in similar economic conditions as us) would probably take for granted, like reasonably modern helmets for example, are being treated as the holy grail of procurement and it's truly sad to see that we are having to make a huge deal out of procurement of such basic stuff which most of the world had equivalents of some 10-20 years ago.

Where is this procurement paralysis coming from? When did it start? They say a picture speaks a thousand words: let's see how much the following images can convey:

These are troops of the Irish Guards regiment of the British Army, photographed circa 1975 on a deployment in Germany. Back then, like now, Britain was a first-world country and a developed economy with a lean army (not a manpower-bloated force). Note their gear:

7791f3ac2223fb5ec2c9987802d355f1.jpg


Your usual stuff: L1A1 SLR rifle, Sterling SMGs, and helmets typical of the era.

These are Indian troops from the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War:

Army-remembers-31567.jpg

59e4cec685600a0a113dbd1c.jpg

1503033272indiapakwar.jpg


What do you see? The same weapons (SLR, Sterling etc. locally manufactured), pretty much same helmets and even same webbing as the British troops of that period.

For additional measure, Australian troops of that time period:

5ba8516b50638475ccab1b3e92fcecbd.jpg


West German (left):
8eeef099c96da0d7949a1f556fa971a0.jpg


In short, back in the 70s, the gear & equipment of the average Indian infantry soldier was pretty much on a par with that of most first-world countries. Cut to present day.....there is a gap so huge it is unfathomable. This is the British Army of today:

06C9GSv.png


This is the average Indian infantry soldier of today; do not be fooled by some of the fancy gear they sometimes sport in international exercises and/or many of the ad-hoc purchases made at the battalion/regimental level based on individual's or unit's choice:

infantry.jpg

Indian_Army_INSAS.jpg


Basically every single piece of equipment is outdated by decades. Forget comparing with others - at least compare with ourselves! This are Indian troops during the 1999 Kargil War:

621-forest.jpg


Between that ^^ and what we have now - can some informed member please tell me what's the improvement made in past 20 years? Is there much of anything?

I'm sure that some morons won't hesitate to come up with ridiculous economic explanations for why this is the case, but the simple truth which cannot be ignored is that there is a very real and very serious problem of complete and utter PROCUREMENT PARALYSIS, the effects of which are plain to see. Media loves to write and write about the Bofors ghost which prevented the Army from procuring any new 155mm artillery piece for decades. But what about more basic equipment like helmets? What stopped us from procuring those?

@Hellfire @Abingdonboy @randomradio @Milspec @vstol Jockey @Aashish @Ashwin @Shashank @GuardianRED

Not much of an article, but a simple rant. Please move the thread someplace else if you think this isn't appropriate for this section.
 
Last edited:
I understand your sentiments. I would blame both army and government for this.

Army for not laying stress on indigenization. Of basic items like guns and armours etc. These things were easily doable. Also more stress should be using equipments to help army instead of relying on manpower. While china is cutting troops we are adding troops.

Government has also neglected and This Budget they have definitely disappointed all of us. Our defence budget expenditure should definitely be higher than current levels.
 
There has been tremendous improvements since in 1999.

All the generals and babus sons and daughters are doing waaayyyyy better than 1999.

Its a hands down victory.

Does anyone remember the name devayani khobragade? The poor dalit indian officer that was " ill treated" by the US?

She was 39 years old then. Officially owned 11 properties in india including in the famous Adarsh building in Mumbai.

Do you think she wasn't doing great? At 39? We worry for no reason. Her father has last month joined congress and all is well.
 
Last edited:
The Indian Army's infantry modernization is faltering. There appears that between what the forces claim to want, what the MoD understands of it, and what the state-run research laboratories are capable of delivering (and their disconnect with how things are done across the world, so essentially leading to reinvention of the wheel at every possible step), the Army is simply not getting the gear it deserves and this circus has gone on long enough, simply put.

The basic things that an average infantry soldier of any other country (or at least those in similar economic conditions as us) would probably take for granted, like reasonably modern helmets for example, are being treated as the holy grail of procurement and it's truly sad to see that we are having to make a huge deal out of procurement of such basic stuff which most of the world had equivalents of some 10-20 years ago.

Where is this procurement paralysis coming from? When did it start? They say a picture speaks a thousand words: let's see how much the following images can convey:

These are troops of the Irish Guards regiment of the British Army, photographed circa 1975 on a deployment in Germany. Back then, like now, Britain was a first-world country and a developed economy with a lean army (not a manpower-bloated force). Note their gear:

7791f3ac2223fb5ec2c9987802d355f1.jpg


Your usual stuff: L1A1 SLR rifle, Sterling SMGs, and helmets typical of the era.

These are Indian troops from the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War:

Army-remembers-31567.jpg

59e4cec685600a0a113dbd1c.jpg

1503033272indiapakwar.jpg


What do you see? The same weapons (SLR, Sterling etc. locally manufactured), pretty much same helmets and even same webbing as the British troops of that period.

For additional measure, Australian troops of that time period:



West German (left):


In short, back in the 70s, the gear & equipment of the average Indian infantry soldier was pretty much on a par with that of most first-world countries. Cut to present day.....there is a gap so huge it is unfathomable. This is the British Army of today:

06C9GSv.png


This is the average Indian infantry soldier of today; do not be fooled by some of the fancy gear they sometimes sport in international exercises and/or many of the ad-hoc purchases made at the battalion/regimental level based on individual's or unit's choice:




Basically every single piece of equipment is outdated by decades. Forget comparing with others - at least compare with ourselves! This are Indian troops during the 1999 Kargil War:



Between that ^^ and what we have now - can some informed member please tell me what's the improvement made in past 20 years? Is there much of anything?

I'm sure that some morons won't hesitate to come up with ridiculous economic explanations for why this is the case, but the simple truth which cannot be ignored is that there is a very real and very serious problem of complete and utter PROCUREMENT PARALYSIS, the effects of which are plain to see. Media loves to write and write about the Bofors ghost which prevented the Army from procuring any new 155mm artillery piece for decades. But what about more basic equipment like helmets? What stopped us from procuring those?

@Hellfire @Abingdonboy @randomradio @Milspec @vstol Jockey @Aashish @Ashwin @Shashank @GuardianRED

Not much of an article, but a simple rant. Please move the thread someplace else if you think this isn't appropriate for this section.


Hey Parthu,
Rant for a rant then :

I get the frustrations out of procurement mismanagement and I am in the same boat.

but my rant is on the examples you have mentioned (driven by blinding love of FNFAL), the British equipment went quite a$$ backwords, from an exceptionally design like FnFAL chambered in 7.62x51 which as an assault rifle package was great (original design actually being exceptional but reduced to being great by the Americans, which is another story which wil follow). That great gun being replaced by the craptastic SA80 was a travesty. All this because of bureaucratic non-sense of standardization through Nato for the 5.56x 45 caliber and also exceptionally bad SA80 rifles chosen by the Brits.

Brits like quite a few commonwealth countries lost their riflemen culture and soon Aussie's will follow suit. about 80% of cause of adoption of crappy rifles go hand in hand with the loss of a marksmanship as a culture. Pre-independence commonwealth was actually quite big into firearms, coming out of WWII rifleman culture was at it's peak in the west and some brilliant rifles came out this era, one of those rifles was the FNFAL. FAL's designer was Dieudonné Saive, an engineer who worked with none other than the giant of modern firearms design "JOHN MOSES BROWNING". Although it was designed after Browning passed away, but his influence on the rifle shows, so much so that romantic in me sees the threads being pulled from beyond the grave in this baby. Take a look at the similarity of hammer spur of a 1911 and fnfal's magazine catch.

fall5_zpshdiqcgtz.jpg



IMG_0109_zps8jxlm9dn.jpg


Regardless , FNFAL originally chambered in 280 would have been a world beater, it was compromised to be upsized to a 7.62Nato, regardless was a great package. Brits replaced it with the wrong rifle, Aussies on the other hand chose a pretty good 5.56 in the AUG. India on the other hand went the Soviet route of a stamped long stroke piston design and built the 5.56. It was not bad on concept but as always bungled up in execution. The action on the insas was reliable AK type action, ergonomics were copied from the FAL, the furniture was bad on the rifle, clear polymer mags, in concept are nice but were fielded without UV testing or cold weather tests. the adjustable gas block was a nice feature, but not really needed for an AK type design especially for a 5.56 cartridge. instead of fielding the insas, it should have been a tech demonstrator to build something on the lines of the Galil.

as far as small arms goes I had written this a while ago on the other site and moved it here:
https://www.strategicfront.org/forums/threads/proxy-war-tactics-and-equipment.573/