Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

[randomradio]

So people saying ATAGS dead because of <15ton asked by IA.

ATAGS has problems, and not just the greater weight. And is frigging expensive.

Right now, only imported guns are doing well. The ATAGS has issues, Bharat 52 doesn't meet some requirements and Dhanush has seen quality issues during production, which OFB claims to have fixed now. M777 is also facing some problems because we don't produce most of the parts in India, so it needs full Indian production. Only K9 has seen success, along with Sharang and Bofors. The IA wants many more Sharangs and the existing Bofors upgraded to 45 cal. Considering all of this, the cancellation of ATHOS has been extremely detrimental.

I don't think ATAGS is dead. It could go the Arjun way, or the IA will wait for further fixes before placing bulk orders. The fact is the IA needs far more than just 1600 towed guns. ATAGS is also available in MGS form, where weight and electical power are lesser issues. So even this requirement can easily climb above the current 800-900 guns.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Fun fact - as per @Hellfire , the ATAGS order won't come thru before 2026 . Why, because it's now undergoing QA / QC trials with the DGQA which could take as much as 2 yrs meaning mid - late 2024. Post that we'd go thru the same torturous process that every desi acquisition goes courtesy MoD bureaucracy & ofc availability of funds which translates to an order being placed not earlier than 2026 , possibly later.

But since the RFI has come out in 2022 , let's celebrate that fact & ofc the yr - 2022.

 

[Aniruddha]

ATAGS has problems, and not just the greater weight. And is frigging expensive.

Right now, only imported guns are doing well. The ATAGS has issues, Bharat 52 doesn't meet some requirements and Dhanush has seen quality issues during production, which OFB claims to have fixed now. M777 is also facing some problems because we don't produce most of the parts in India, so it needs full Indian production. Only K9 has seen success, along with Sharang and Bofors. The IA wants many more Sharangs and the existing Bofors upgraded to 45 cal. Considering all of this, the cancellation of ATHOS has been extremely detrimental.

I don't think ATAGS is dead. It could go the Arjun way, or the IA will wait for further fixes before placing bulk orders. The fact is the IA needs far more than just 1600 towed guns. ATAGS is also available in MGS form, where weight and electical power are lesser issues. So even this requirement can easily climb above the current 800-900 guns.

Kindly explain what problems does ATAGS have which ATHOS 2052 don't.
I have seen many people claim ATAGS has problems but not a single one has been able to point them out one by one

 

[Ankit Kumar]

252 GTVs with 20 ton capacity, preparation for 150 ATAGS order.
Army plans to buy 2,000 gun-towing vehicles to move medium guns on hilly & desert terrain

Original requirement of 2000 GTVs for 1400+ ATAGS.

 

[Chain Smoker]

ATAGS has problems, and not just the greater weight. And is frigging expensive.

Right now, only imported guns are doing well. The ATAGS has issues, Bharat 52 doesn't meet some requirements and Dhanush has seen quality issues during production, which OFB claims to have fixed now. M777 is also facing some problems because we don't produce most of the parts in India, so it needs full Indian production. Only K9 has seen success, along with Sharang and Bofors. The IA wants many more Sharangs and the existing Bofors upgraded to 45 cal. Considering all of this, the cancellation of ATHOS has been extremely detrimental.

I don't think ATAGS is dead. It could go the Arjun way, or the IA will wait for further fixes before placing bulk orders. The fact is the IA needs far more than just 1600 towed guns. ATAGS is also available in MGS form, where weight and electical power are lesser issues. So even this requirement can easily climb above the current 800-900 guns.

Seems like you are also a part of dalla lobby just like army can u explain what problems are there in ATAGS even when it cleared all the trials . And plz don't talk about costs when it has not been mass produced.

Typical indian mentality start talking about costs when there are no other criteria left to shit on indigenous weapons.

 

[_Anonymous_]

252 GTVs with 20 ton capacity, preparation for 150 ATAGS order.
Army plans to buy 2,000 gun-towing vehicles to move medium guns on hilly & desert terrain

Original requirement of 2000 GTVs for 1400+ ATAGS.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1605192138165473280

If you notice the last line of the RFI SS as attached, it says preferably < 15 tons. The GTV is meant to tow 20 T capacity with a 2 T crane. In the next 2 yrs with DGQA, Kalyani will work with DRDO & IA to shave off some weight. In any case given the tech specs of the GTV it's clear they're there keeping the current weight of the ATAGS in mind.

 

[randomradio]

Kindly explain what problems does ATAGS have which ATHOS 2052 don't.
I have seen many people claim ATAGS has problems but not a single one has been able to point them out one by one

All we know is ATAGS has problems, but the details are not public yet. Two known problems are the excessive weight and the use of electric drive. The electric drive isn't working at the level necessary. Then there's an unknown battery issue too, possibly connected to the electric drive.

ATHOS cleared all IA trials.

ATAGS will go through in some capacity. It's enough to clear the gun for LRIP, but any serial orders could take up to 2027 or 2028. Someone said 2026, but that's being optimistic. The LSP guns have to be produced and delivered, which could take until 2025 as long as the production begins in 2023, then comes trials again followed by negotiations for contract. The overall process is long. And this is considering the final batch of LSPs meet serial production standards.

The point is even with a successful ATAGS, the ATHOS was still necessary 'cause serial production of ATAGS is still years away. This tender was a long time coming and even if you are unhappy about it, it's good news for the country.

 

[_Anonymous_]

I thought this poppycock about electric vs hydraulic drives was long settled . Evidently it isn't for some people.

For those interested in more check out #880 on Page 44 onwards.

Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

Close Look At Indian Army 300mm Smerch MBRLS On TATRA 10 x 10 Truck Also 9M55K Cluster Munitions Rocket.

www.strategicfront.org

Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

Close Look At Indian Army 300mm Smerch MBRLS On TATRA 10 x 10 Truck Also 9M55K Cluster Munitions Rocket.

www.strategicfront.org

Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

www.strategicfront.org

 

[randomradio]

Seems like you are also a part of dalla lobby just like army can u explain what problems are there in ATAGS even when it cleared all the trials . And plz don't talk about costs when it has not been mass produced.

Typical indian mentality start talking about costs when there are no other criteria left to shit on indigenous weapons.

Always go by the mantra that the army is right. In the end, they are the ones who will fight, not you, me or DRDO.

This import dalal lobby term has been used to attack the forces for the longest time and it's totally underserved. The most common sense approach is to go by the fact that the Mk1 versions of almost anything DRDO makes is just BS. This is reinforced by the fact that the worst standard issue rifle in operation today is in the hands of the IA, even insurgents use better rifles. The IA was retarded enough to go for INSAS back in the 90s and they regret that to this day.

You should go on the ground and speak to actual professionals, they will tell you the truth of what's happening internally. The forces can't speak to the media or tell their side of the story. Once you hear them, you will change your mind too.

The IA is very deeply involved in ATAGS. The forces in fact want to install their own officers as program managers of large programs. Even the army has set up their own design bureau.

Chief of the Army Staff inaugurates the Army Design Bureau

www.spsmai.com

The Official Home Page of the Indian Army

The latest news, images, videos, career information, and links from the Indian Army.

indianarmy.nic.in

ATAGS simply needs more time for refinement. And that's at least 4-5 years away. The 400-gun order for ATHOS would have completely de-risked ATAGS and given it more time. ATHOS delivery would have taken up to 6 years, the IA could have waited until 2027-28 for the serial models of ATAGS. In its current form, it can only fight if the enemy comes to it and then doesn't fire at it. In the meantime, we would have seen more orders for Sharang, Dhanush, M777 and K9, even MGS, including ATAGS-based MGS.

 

[Sathya]

Production by private companies.
Baba kalyani with capacity to produce 1 gun / day with Swiss transferred mill.
Even Armenia placed orders with their Small budget

 

[Aniruddha]

Always go by the mantra that the army is right. In the end, they are the ones who will fight, not you, me or DRDO.

This import dalal lobby term has been used to attack the forces for the longest time and it's totally underserved. The most common sense approach is to go by the fact that the Mk1 versions of almost anything DRDO makes is just BS. This is reinforced by the fact that the worst standard issue rifle in operation today is in the hands of the IA, even insurgents use better rifles. The IA was retarded enough to go for INSAS back in the 90s and they regret that to this day.

You should go on the ground and speak to actual professionals, they will tell you the truth of what's happening internally. The forces can't speak to the media or tell their side of the story. Once you hear them, you will change your mind too.

The IA is very deeply involved in ATAGS. The forces in fact want to install their own officers as program managers of large programs. Even the army has set up their own design bureau.

Chief of the Army Staff inaugurates the Army Design Bureau

www.spsmai.com

The Official Home Page of the Indian Army

The latest news, images, videos, career information, and links from the Indian Army.

indianarmy.nic.in

ATAGS simply needs more time for refinement. And that's at least 4-5 years away. The 400-gun order for ATHOS would have completely de-risked ATAGS and given it more time. ATHOS delivery would have taken up to 6 years, the IA could have waited until 2027-28 for the serial models of ATAGS. In its current form, it can only fight if the enemy comes to it and then doesn't fire at it. In the meantime, we would have seen more orders for Sharang, Dhanush, M777 and K9, even MGS, including ATAGS-based MGS.

Nice Joke, please tell us more.
As expected your lot comes up with the INSAS story to defend the indefensible and naked truth

 

[Ashwin]

Always go by the mantra that the army is right. In the end, they are the ones who will fight, not you, me or DRDO.

This import dalal lobby term has been used to attack the forces for the longest time and it's totally underserved. The most common sense approach is to go by the fact that the Mk1 versions of almost anything DRDO makes is just BS. This is reinforced by the fact that the worst standard issue rifle in operation today is in the hands of the IA, even insurgents use better rifles. The IA was retarded enough to go for INSAS back in the 90s and they regret that to this day.

You should go on the ground and speak to actual professionals, they will tell you the truth of what's happening internally. The forces can't speak to the media or tell their side of the story. Once you hear them, you will change your mind too.

The IA is very deeply involved in ATAGS. The forces in fact want to install their own officers as program managers of large programs. Even the army has set up their own design bureau.

Chief of the Army Staff inaugurates the Army Design Bureau

www.spsmai.com

The Official Home Page of the Indian Army

The latest news, images, videos, career information, and links from the Indian Army.

indianarmy.nic.in

ATAGS simply needs more time for refinement. And that's at least 4-5 years away. The 400-gun order for ATHOS would have completely de-risked ATAGS and given it more time. ATHOS delivery would have taken up to 6 years, the IA could have waited until 2027-28 for the serial models of ATAGS. In its current form, it can only fight if the enemy comes to it and then doesn't fire at it. In the meantime, we would have seen more orders for Sharang, Dhanush, M777 and K9, even MGS, including ATAGS-based MGS.

It's an IDDM tender. Which everyone missed.

 

[randomradio]

Nice Joke, please tell us more.
As expected your lot comes up with the INSAS story to defend the indefensible and naked truth

Okay, okay, IA is corrupt and they like only imports. Now write an angry mail to the DGCD.

Everyone else will live in the real world.

 

[randomradio]

Somebody needs to write to DRDO and the army chief that this poppycock about drives is all a figment of their imagination. People on the internet seem to know better.

 

[randomradio]

It's an IDDM tender. Which everyone missed.

Exactly. I pointed it out too, but the post was deleted by mods.

It's a Buy Indian tender. 50% for companies that choose "IDDM" and 60% for companies that choose "Buy".

It's effectively for an alternative Indian gun that's not ATAGS.

 

[screambowl]

In case there is any indication of war the trials can be fastracked. There is no such indication and there is enough calculation done in advance , how much time would it take to develop a system for the whole front.

What is missing here is the cost factor, the inflation and the economic benefit from export. The faster you conclude the trials you can boast about it to sell.

 

[marich01]

52 cal guns are on negative list i think, and with IDDM there is still very good chance of a Kalyani gun getting picked. If I am not wrong , there will be L1 & L2 bidders, so if army is not hellbent on Athos or nexter there is good chance either of atags & mag er guns will get order. DRDO is very bullish on atags prospect, back to back 48km firing done & the gun salute at Red Fort, direct praise from govt definitely upped their morale on this.
Going to be another set of discussion when the MGS rfi comes

 

[Chain Smoker]

It's an IDDM tender. Which everyone missed.

It's also under make(indian) category it means any local company can tie up with foreign firm to license produce their system.

Any way this RFI has been tailor made to import ATHOS by dalal lobby.

As Army puts in request for towed artillery guns, Israeli ATHOS is back in race for mega deal

In its request, Army specifies weight of gun system should preferably be less than 15 tons. This brings Israeli firm Elbit in reckoning as indigenous ATAGs are well over 18 tons.

theprint.in

 

[randomradio]

52 cal guns are on negative list i think, and with IDDM there is still very good chance of a Kalyani gun getting picked. If I am not wrong , there will be L1 & L2 bidders, so if army is not hellbent on Athos or nexter there is good chance either of atags & mag er guns will get order. DRDO is very bullish on atags prospect, back to back 48km firing done & the gun salute at Red Fort, direct praise from govt definitely upped their morale on this.
Going to be another set of discussion when the MGS rfi comes

Yeah, ATAGS can and will be expected to participate in this tender.

 

[marich01]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1605543334914756608

Yeah, ATAGS can and will be expected to participate in this tender.

Seen people telling atags now weigh 15-16 tons itself & not the original 18ton beast. I am yet to connect the dots or search for enough news on this. But if its true then possibly on equal footing.