India vs China - War Gaming Scenarios : Related News , Updates , Discussions & Analysis .

[Rajput Lion]

Frankly for a nation which's just started producing turbofans to replace Russian ones on their fleet , to have suddenly developed one that can possess super cruise features is a bit hard to digest but I sincerely hope IAF considers the J-20 to have super cruise whenever they evaluate it so that they can come up with a better than optimum solution for it .

IAF has warmed up to Su-57M as it has started flying from last year. IAF was always waiting for Type-30. Russians expect to get delivery of Su-57M in their service from 2024/25 onwards.

IAF has realized the threat of VLO fighters that China now possesses. Even our MKI is getting upgraded to deal with PLAAF. Rafale already is capable of thrashing them. Su-57M or HAL produced Su-57MKI would be our tip of the trident. Let's hope a deal is signed soon.

 

[randomradio]

I've been saying for quite a few years that the Rafale with GaN is necessary to be a challenge for the J-20, but that has been pushed from 2025 to 2030, so it's pointless now, the Chinese will be introducing their 6th gen by then. And that the Su-57 is necessary to actually gain the advantage over the peak J-20 or be somewhat of a match to the successor J-XX.

MRFA is for proven jets, not for prototypes. The Su-57M doesn't even exist in a prototype form yet, the last prototype is yet to be rolled out, perhaps this year, and then flight testing until 2025 before an export version can be made. By then, MRFA will be over. Also, the Su-57 program for India is still active. A decision is pending, and it will be based on the yet to be made export version, which also needs to be flight tested. Whatever the case, if the IAF is interested in the Su-57M, any decision will be made only after MRFA has either progressed to the final stage or has been concluded. This requirement has nothing to do with MRFA, the Russians know very well that the Su-57 will rejected if it participated simply due to the fact that it cannot yet be flight tested, the very reason why the IAF postponed their FGFA decision in the first place.

 

[randomradio]

J-20 has evolved much quicker than everybody estimated. So lemme try to explain:

Rafale F3R(I)>> J-20A(with Russian engines)

Rafale F3R(I) >>==!! J-20B(with Chinese WS-10 engines)

J-20C(with supercruising WS-15 engines)>> Rafale F3R(I).

Both J-20A and B are apparently the same jets with the A designation. The initial lot with Russian engines may have been re-engined already, or may be re-engined during overhaul. At the very least, it's probably used to train pilots and will be operationally irrelevant. The J-20B is likely the peak J-20 with the supercruise engines. Interestingly the final forms of both the Su-57M and J-20B are yet to fly with definitive engines, but both have already started flying without them.

But things are different now simply because we need to take into account that the Chinese have more money and an equally capable defence elecronics industry as the West. And they are not sitting around waiting for something to become affordable. They are using their money power to get the best they can get, so we need to assume they are using more advanced hardware than the countries in the West today, at least when compared to the Rafale and F-35.

If we assume that Uttam Mk2 is GaN already, then we need to automatically assume that everything on the J-20 today is half to a full generation ahead of the Rafale using GaN as well. The Chinese are being severely underestimated in public discourse, I just hope better sense prevails within the establishments.

Software maturity may be a problem, but it's only a matter of time for the Chinese to catch up. Training is relevant only in specific cases, and the Chinese do spend on training, unlike the SU. So there's not much of an advantage left for the Rafale, unlike what could have been.

 

[_Anonymous_]

For some strange reason the MMRCA included the MiG-35 when the MiG-35 made first flight somewhere in the mid 2010's IIRC . Most of the features the Gripen advertised then would become part of the Gripen E whereas they were participating then with the Gripen C which also was evaluated . The Gripen E made first flight in 2019 or 2020 a full decade after the evaluations of the MMRCA was undertaken.

Hence the Su-57M can very well participate in the MRFA evaluations even if they're conducted today as they're in the process of being certified. The very fact that both the IAF & by extension the MoD & the GoI are silent on it with the Russians reciprocating the silence speaks of a tacit understanding between both nations especially given how Russia has never been shy of inviting India's participation in the Su-75 project even as recently as the AERO India 2023 show.

The export version of the Su-57M would take another 5 yrs to materialize post 2025-26 in which case going in for it would be of little significance as we'd be getting our AMCA Mk-1 then , the LCA Mk-2 , TEDBF - although it's irrelevant to the IAF's plans & hopefully the first squadron of the MRFA by then.

The real threat is N-O-W. By 2033-34 the worst would be over . While the process of building & expanding the services including the IAF is an on going never ending job , the induction of the Su-57M then makes little sense IMHO .

The decision to induct the Su-57M would be independent of the MRFA. I don't know why the 2 are conflated or should be conflated.

 

[randomradio]

They know that we need at least 40 Su-57M to take on 100s of J-20C in our border.

No chance before we fight a war. Even the Russians are expecting a more muted version to be fully operational only in 2027. By the time we get something out of it, it will be well past 2030. There's no GaN in the first 3 regiments.

If the Chinese attack us before a Taiwan war, then all we have is the old MKIs and 36 Rafale, not even the LCA Mk1As. If the Chinese attack us after Taiwan, then we will be lucky to have a few squadrons of LCA Mk1A and at least 1 MLU'd MKI squadron. No new Rafales, no Su-57s. If the Chinese have any sense, they will attack both India and Taiwan when both India and the US are unprepared in the air, as they are today.

India, Taiwan and the US will see elections in 2024. So my prediction is on a war between the summer of 2024 (India, Taiwan elections) to summer of 2025 (post US elections). And I'm leaning towards summer 2025 the most likely under the Trump administration. At worst, fall 2025. Weather permitting after all. India will get a miss because the Chinese can't afford to give away their secrets to the US before fighting them. They can afford the reverse.

Worst case, war rhetoric from a war-mongering China may scare the Taiwanese population towards the pro-China KMT groups, particularly the Deep Blue faction, and this may shift China's focus towards India instead, with Taiwan peacefully unifying with China and avoiding war entirely. Biden's re-election is also a problem for India. But I'm putting my money on Trump.

Either case, we can't expect the Su-57 happening before that. So I'd forget about it.

 

[Rajput Lion]

I've been saying for quite a few years that the Rafale with GaN is necessary to be a challenge for the J-20, but that has been pushed from 2025 to 2030, so it's pointless now, the Chinese will be introducing their 6th gen by then. And that the Su-57 is necessary to actually gain the advantage over the peak J-20 or be somewhat of a match to the successor J-XX.

Su-57M + Rafale +MKI UPG...all three are vital for us in this very decade. In the next decade thanks to AMCA and Tejas MK2, our force projection is going to rapidly enhance.

Also, Rafale will be able to fight J-20 in this decade, with or without GaN.

MRFA is for proven jets, not for prototypes. The Su-57M doesn't even exist in a prototype form yet, the last prototype is yet to be rolled out, perhaps this year, and then flight testing until 2025 before an export version can be made. By then, MRFA will be over. Also, the Su-57 program for India is still active. A decision is pending, and it will be based on the yet to be made export version, which also needs to be flight tested. Whatever the case, if the IAF is interested in the Su-57M, any decision will be made only after MRFA has either progressed to the final stage or has been concluded. This requirement has nothing to do with MRFA, the Russians know very well that the Su-57 will rejected if it participated simply due to the fact that it cannot yet be flight tested, the very reason why the IAF postponed their FGFA decision in the first place.

That's why I told you earlier that IAF shelved FGFA because of MMRCA. That decision is now haunting us. No one had thought that China would deploy 200 J-20s so soon.

Both J-20A and B are apparently the same jets with the A designation. The initial lot with Russian engines may have been re-engined already, or may be re-engined during overhaul. At the very least, it's probably used to train pilots and will be operationally irrelevant. The J-20B is likely the peak J-20 with the supercruise engines. Interestingly the final forms of both the Su-57M and J-20B are yet to fly with definitive engines, but both have already started flying without them.

Nope. J-20A is the first model which entered service in 2017.

J-20B is the upgraded model which entered service in 2020.
Link: China launches mass production of new local-made J-20B stealth fighter aircraft

Now there is yet another upgraded model revealed last year with a different fuselage/raised spine. It could be J-20B+.

Read this: Viral Image Of China's 'Upgraded' J-20 Stealth Fighter, J-20B, Mesmerizes Netizens; Experts Decode The Aircraft

J-20C is going to be the definitive version with WS-15 supercruising engines.

Here are some pics of the new version with pictorial comparison with previous version(source: Air Data News):

Look how the spine is raised in the latest version(above J-20B) vs the older version(below J-20A).

But things are different now simply because we need to take into account that the Chinese have more money and an equally capable defence elecronics industry as the West. And they are not sitting around waiting for something to become affordable. They are using their money power to get the best they can get, so we need to assume they are using more advanced hardware than the countries in the West today, at least when compared to the Rafale and F-35.

I never underestimate the Chinese like a lot of our Indian brethren.

If we assume that Uttam Mk2 is GaN already, then we need to automatically assume that everything on the J-20 today is half to a full generation ahead of the Rafale using GaN as well. The Chinese are being severely underestimated in public discourse, I just hope better sense prevails within the establishments.

Yes.

Software maturity may be a problem, but it's only a matter of time for the Chinese to catch up. Training is relevant only in specific cases, and the Chinese do spend on training, unlike the SU. So there's not much of an advantage left for the Rafale, unlike what could have been.

PLAAF can only dream to match the operational tactics and capability of IAF.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Su-57M is about replacing the hydraulics with electric drives, thus reducing weight and enhancing stealth and performance. Also, it shall add AI and new engines. Talking of which, they have been under test from 2017 itself in an Su-57 prototype fully airborne. Last year, Su-57M took to the sky for the first time:

A modernized Su-57 stealth fighter jet took to the skies on its maiden flight on October 21, 2022, at Zhukovsky flight test center near Moscow, the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) announced on October 25, 2022.

According to UAC, the aircraft was piloted by a test pilot of the Sukhoi Experimental Design Bureau, Sergey Bogdan. The 56 minutes test flight was incident free.

“A set of onboard equipment with extended functionality, intelligent crew support, and the possibility of using a wide range of new weapons is being tested on the aircraft. It is also possible to install the engine of the second stage on the aircraft,” the press service said.

Intelligent Crew Support​

Intelligent crew support allows the Su-57’s onboard computer to perform copiloting tasks, freeing the pilot to focus on critical functions. The aircraft takes over piloting and preparing the use of weapons, according to Yuri Slyusar, Director General of the UAC. The aircraft also features a high degree of intelligent automation in combat.

On July 28, 2021, Nikita Dorofeev, head of the cockpit department of the Sukhoi Design Bureau, said that in the future, a Su-57 pilot would be able to control the plane with eye movements or voice. Despite the complexity of such a system, since the human pupil is constantly moving unconsciously, its prototype already exists, Dorofeev pointed out.

Also, at present, the task is to teach the system to understand not learned phrases, but the context, so that in extreme conditions, “the pilot does not need to remember exactly which phrase he should pronounce.”

According to Rafael Suleimanove, test pilot of the Sukhoi Design Bureau, the Intelligent Crew Support allows the Su-57 to “perform everything in the air.”

“Piloting this aircraft is very pleasant and comfortable. It allows you to perform everything in the air. These capabilities, coupled with powerful weapons that allow you to perform tasks both in the air and on the ground, in any weather conditions, day and night, in any latitudes, make it a potent weapon in the hands of the pilots,” said the test pilot.

Suleimanov also noted that the generations of Su aircraft are very similar. Pilots who fly the Su-35 can easily fly the fifth-generation fighter.

Stage 2 Engine​

When originally conceived, the Su-57 was envisaged to be powered by a clean sheet design new engine referred to as Izdeliye (Product) 30, which would enable it to cruise at supersonic speed without the use of gas-guzzling afterburners.

The aircraft was, however, developed and tested using an interim power plant – NPO Saturn Product 117 engine, which is derived from the AL-41F-1S after-burning turbofans developed for the Su-35.

The Izdeliye 30 will improve the thrust and fuel efficiency of the fighter and reduce weight and maintenance requirements.

The Izdeliye 30 engine was first flight tested on December 5, 2017. Since then, the engine has undergone intensive flight testing. As of October 2019, the engine had undergone 16 flight tests on a modified Su-57.

In December 2019, Izvestia quoted Yuri Slyusar, general director of the UAC, saying that the Stage 2 engine was undergoing intensive testing. The engine had been flight tested for thrust vectoring, and its oil system had been tested under adverse flight conditions. Bench testing of the engine, too, was ongoing.

A Sukhoi Design Bureau employee told TASS in September 2022 that, unlike 4th-gen fighters, the Su-57 can maintain supersonic speeds during most of its mission profile, even when engaged in combat.

“If a fourth-generation aircraft lives at subsonic speeds most of the time and goes to perform specific combat missions at supersonic flight speeds, then this aircraft (Su-57) is designed for most of its ‘life’ at supersonic flight speeds,” he said.

Link: Russia's Modified Su-57 Stealth Fighter Variant With Stage 2 Engine 'Soars & Roars' In Test Flight

 

[SrNair]

No chance before we fight a war. Even the Russians are expecting a more muted version to be fully operational only in 2027. By the time we get something out of it, it will be well past 2030. There's no GaN in the first 3 regiments.

If the Chinese attack us before a Taiwan war, then all we have is the old MKIs and 36 Rafale, not even the LCA Mk1As. If the Chinese attack us after Taiwan, then we will be lucky to have a few squadrons of LCA Mk1A and at least 1 MLU'd MKI squadron. No new Rafales, no Su-57s. If the Chinese have any sense, they will attack both India and Taiwan when both India and the US are unprepared in the air, as they are today.

India, Taiwan and the US will see elections in 2024. So my prediction is on a war between the summer of 2024 (India, Taiwan elections) to summer of 2025 (post US elections). And I'm leaning towards summer 2025 the most likely under the Trump administration. At worst, fall 2025. Weather permitting after all. India will get a miss because the Chinese can't afford to give away their secrets to the US before fighting them. They can afford the reverse.

Worst case, war rhetoric from a war-mongering China may scare the Taiwanese population towards the pro-China KMT groups, particularly the Deep Blue faction, and this may shift China's focus towards India instead, with Taiwan peacefully unifying with China and avoiding war entirely. Biden's re-election is also a problem for India. But I'm putting my money on Trump.

Either case, we can't expect the Su-57 happening before that. So I'd forget about it.

Depends on the outcome of Ukraine conflict.
So far even Xi can see that the Putin is in trouble.
Our priority must be a single highly advanced indigenous SAM system akin to S 400.
XRSAM must be prioritise .
If they plan of limited yet prolonged war in Himalayan border it would be a trouble for us.So instead we have to escalate it to stop the attack.
I dont think the Chinese going to attack us.

 

[Bali78]

Now the problems for us:

1. With 36 Rafale we're seriously outgunned against J-20 and J-16. We should immediately order 2/3 more Rafale squadrons ASAP.

2. The real battle won't be one on one. AWACS, Jammers, Drones and multiple fighter combos would work together. It's much tougher to beat J-20/J-16 combo than any one type.

Our primary Air Superiority fighter is completely outclassed against both J-20 and J-16 in terms of Radar/IRST/BVR.

Su-30UPG with cutting edge GaN based EW(upcoming next year) QWIP IRST and AESA radar(coming in next 2-3 years), Astra2/3(operational in next few years) is a must to take on China.

We have allocated 80 billion dollars for infrastructure just for this year, but can’t spend 10 billion dollars a year for our Airforce? This is pure BS!!

 

[Bali78]

May be we should also order Su-57M. AMCA will only become operational post 2035. The gap is too big and F-35 is not good enough for J-20. At best, just like Rafale it can draw level. But we need something to dominate J-20 and PLAAF like how MKI dominated PLAAF from 2002 to 2017.

Su-57M and its future derivatives are the only fighter that would be able to do it for us.

The only issue is uncertainties associated with Su-57. This is a long term association and we should rather buy more Rafale to avoid uncertainties associated Russian weapon systems.

 

[_Anonymous_]

We have allocated 80 billion dollars for infrastructure just for this year, but can’t spend 10 billion dollars a year for our Airforce? This is pure BS!!

The MRFA tender should've been re-launched by 2019 or 2020 . Why it wasn't done remains a huge mystery or the fact that we didn't go in for the 2nd complement of 36 nos Rafales thru a G2G deal ! Absolute sh!t show by both the IAF & GoI for not proceeding with either alternative particularly after Galwan 2020 .

 

[_Anonymous_]

The only issue is uncertainties associated with Su-57. This is a long term association and we should rather buy more Rafale to avoid uncertainties associated Russian weapon systems.

Going by the massive induction of the J-20s , Rafales on their own , in all probability , wouldn't be able to prevail over them by the looks of it . We need the Su-57M but what we don't are downgraded export models . By the looks of it , we seem to be going in for them one way or another , once the Su-57M are certified for use with the Izdeliye-30 engines.

 

[randomradio]

That's why I told you earlier that IAF shelved FGFA because of MMRCA. That decision is now haunting us. No one had thought that China would deploy 200 J-20s so soon.

It didn't matter whether we entered FGFA or not, we can't do anything without the Russian version finishing first. The Russians lied to us about their timelines, as is evident today.

Nope. J-20A is the first model which entered service in 2017.


J-20B is the upgraded model which entered service in 2020.
Link: China launches mass production of new local-made J-20B stealth fighter aircraft

Now there is yet another upgraded model revealed last year with a different fuselage/raised spine. It could be J-20B+.

Read this: Viral Image Of China's 'Upgraded' J-20 Stealth Fighter, J-20B, Mesmerizes Netizens; Experts Decode The Aircraft

J-20C is going to be the definitive version with WS-15 supercruising engines.

Here are some pics of the new version with pictorial comparison with previous version(source: Air Data News):

View attachment 26696

View attachment 26697

Look how the spine is raised in the latest version(above J-20B) vs the older version(below J-20A).

There are only two airframes today, J-20A with both Russian and WS-10C and the J-20B with the planned WS-15.

J-20A/B/C were just unofficial media generated terms that split the Russian one and WS-10C into two different airframes, but the reality is both are basically the J-20A with 2 different engines, like AMCA. There's no AMCA Mk1 and Mk2, there's only AMCA with F414 and AMCA with a new engine. It was split by the media for academic discourse. Obviously the internal designations will be different.

 

[randomradio]

Depends on the outcome of Ukraine conflict.
So far even Xi can see that the Putin is in trouble.
Our priority must be a single highly advanced indigenous SAM system akin to S 400.
XRSAM must be prioritise .
If they plan of limited yet prolonged war in Himalayan border it would be a trouble for us.So instead we have to escalate it to stop the attack.

The conflict doesn't matter, the Chinese are doing their own thing. The Americans pushed the Russians into war so they don't interfere in Taiwan.

I dont think the Chinese going to attack us.

Maybe so. But if they take Taiwan, they can bring that momentum to India too.

Taking Taiwan requires China gaining a significant theater advantage over the US and Japan. If they do that, then they can repeat that in the air against India. And there's no point in attacking India after the IA has finished its modernisation, it will turn into an attrition-based fist fight like Ukraine.

But if they lose against Taiwan, they may still need a victory elsewhere, so the risk to India is still there.

Our only real option is to buy time and invest in defence while making our economy much more resilient during that time. Basically, we need deterrence against a conventional attack so the Chinese feel they cannot ensure victory. And this is the only thing that's in our hands.

Alternatively, the Chinese can attack a part of India where they think they have a significant air and land advantage, like Depsang, before attacking Taiwan. The Chinese have far too many options and we seem to have no stomach to pro-actively deter them beforehand.

 

[randomradio]

The only issue is uncertainties associated with Su-57. This is a long term association and we should rather buy more Rafale to avoid uncertainties associated Russian weapon systems.

The Su-57 uncertainties are guaranteed to happen. It's nowhere near ready to fight the Chinese anytime this decade at its current pace.

Even if we go for it, by the time it's delivered and we gain some experience on it, it's gonna be well past 2035. It can take us up to 2000 days after induction for us to actually be able to put it to good use. So the Rafale is the only jet that's immediately usable.

Due to their political position on China, France is unlikely to help us in any meaningful way in case of war. For example, they won't deliver an extra squadron or so from their own inventory quickly to make up for losses during the fighting.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Which is why it's time IAF retakes a serious look at the Su-57M & decide whether it's worth their while. If the answer is yes , commence negotiations pronto , don't compromise on the quality , insist on parity with what the RuAF is receiving & despatch your initial batch of pilots as soon as you sign the contract for supply of Su-57M ( hopefully we don't spend much time haggling ) such that by the time you receive the first squadron we have trained twice the number of pilots. Insist on all deliveries to be accomplished by 2029 assuming we're ordering 40 units .

 

[SrNair]

The conflict doesn't matter, the Chinese are doing their own thing. The Americans pushed the Russians into war so they don't interfere in Taiwan.



Maybe so. But if they take Taiwan, they can bring that momentum to India too.

Taking Taiwan requires China gaining a significant theater advantage over the US and Japan. If they do that, then they can repeat that in the air against India. And there's no point in attacking India after the IA has finished its modernisation, it will turn into an attrition-based fist fight like Ukraine.

But if they lose against Taiwan, they may still need a victory elsewhere, so the risk to India is still there.

Our only real option is to buy time and invest in defence while making our economy much more resilient during that time. Basically, we need deterrence against a conventional attack so the Chinese feel they cannot ensure victory. And this is the only thing that's in our hands.

Alternatively, the Chinese can attack a part of India where they think they have a significant air and land advantage, like Depsang, before attacking Taiwan. The Chinese have far too many options and we seem to have no stomach to pro-actively deter them beforehand.

No its matter.
Perhaps Chinese were testing the Western resolve if a situation arises.TBH West were successful in bogged down the Russian.
Same will repeat in Taiwan and perhaps western forces will be there also.



A war between India and China on our border would be a logistics war.
As of now Chinese didnt have enough facilities to mobilise a good chunk in to their Himalayan side.Their military is concentrated on Eastern Seaboard.

Why the Chinese creates friction on border ?
Its simple.The sudden and drastic methods of NDA Govt, impeccable yet efficient implementation of policies from 370 article abrogation to otherd rattled them.
Sudden changes in J&K raises suspicions.
So they were suspecting bigger Indian involvement if the Taiwan issues come and possible US play.

An attack against will drain the Chinese coffers.
They want a result without any casualities.
They dont want Ukraine kind of situation but opponent is much powerful

 

[randomradio]

No its matter.
Perhaps Chinese were testing the Western resolve if a situation arises.TBH West were successful in bogged down the Russian.
Same will repeat in Taiwan and perhaps western forces will be there also.



A war between India and China on our border would be a logistics war.
As of now Chinese didnt have enough facilities to mobilise a good chunk in to their Himalayan side.Their military is concentrated on Eastern Seaboard.

Why the Chinese creates friction on border ?
Its simple.The sudden and drastic methods of NDA Govt, impeccable yet efficient implementation of policies from 370 article abrogation to otherd rattled them.
Sudden changes in J&K raises suspicions.
So they were suspecting bigger Indian involvement if the Taiwan issues come and possible US play.

An attack against will drain the Chinese coffers.
They want a result without any casualities.
They dont want Ukraine kind of situation but opponent is much powerful

Wars were constantly fought in the 50s, 60s and 70s, especially involving China. Regardless of what happens in Ukraine, China's plans will stay the same. The only way to change their plans is a NATO vs Russia war.

The Chinese have a lot more in terms of logistics than we do. They are now building even more. What they were missing were fully equipped air bases, and they have those today as well.

The Chinese actions along Ladakh are older than the Modi administration. The last major one before 2020 happened in 2013.

2013 Depsang standoff - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rajput Lion]

We have allocated 80 billion dollars for infrastructure just for this year, but can’t spend 10 billion dollars a year for our Airforce? This is pure BS!!

Yes, why not! But we need to expedite MKI UPG project and IAF is exactly doing that. With just digital RWR like Dhruti that is happening in 129 MKIs, MKI can now passively track all hostile airborne and ground based radars and even fire Astra/RudraM absolutely passively.

People don't realise it but modern air warfare is about remaining as silent as possible and surprise your opponent completely passively.

Rafale is already a master of this trick.

The only issue is uncertainties associated with Su-57. This is a long term association and we should rather buy more Rafale to avoid uncertainties associated Russian weapon systems.

After Ukraine war, Russia wants as many Su-57s as possible. It is the only fighter than can give us superiority over J-20. We need to expedite a deal soon.

Rafale and MKI UPG are good enough to hold J-20, but they won't be able to dominate PLAAF. We can do that if we have Su-57M in this very decade.

 

[Rajput Lion]

It didn't matter whether we entered FGFA or not, we can't do anything without the Russian version finishing first. The Russians lied to us about their timelines, as is evident today.

No if we entered the project we already would be operating FGFA. Russian planning was to use Indian money to fund their project, we realised this game and pulled out. Now that Russia has completed the development we may go for Su-57M or HAL made Su-57MKI(hopefully Su-60MKI).

There are only two airframes today, J-20A with both Russian and WS-10C and the J-20B with the planned WS-15.

Did you watch the picture I posted where it showed two different airframes for single-seat J-20? One with raised spine(latest) and one with flat spine.

If Russian engined version was A, then WS-10 version would be B. This new version with raised spine may be the C version(or upgraded B version) with WS-15.

No one in open source media knows more about J-20 or PLAAF than this guy. Read his tweet:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606178575966605314

J-20A/B/C were just unofficial media generated terms that split the Russian one and WS-10C into two different airframes, but the reality is both are basically the J-20A with 2 different engines, like AMCA. There's no AMCA Mk1 and Mk2, there's only AMCA with F414 and AMCA with a new engine. It was split by the media for academic discourse. Obviously the internal designations will be different.

Different fuselage. They have also introduced a 2-seat fighter version as well.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606206630382772224