IAC-2 Future Aircraft Carrier Project - News & Discussions
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Indian Navy drops plans of third aircraft carrier, second IAC will replace Vikramaditya
New Delhi: The Indian Navy has dropped plans to simultaneously operate three aircraft carriers but is focusing on the second indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) which will be a replacement for INS Vikramaditya.
This is a change in the naval policy which had plans to be a three-carrier force. Multiple naval chiefs in the past, including the immediate predecessor Admiral Hari Kumar, had pitched for a third aircraft carrier.
ThePrint in 2020 reported that the government was against the Navy’s view that it needed 3 aircraft carriers, with one available at all times if any of the other two went for a refit.
The government wanted the Navy to focus more on submarines rather than aircraft carriers.
Former Chief of Defence Staff General Bipin Rawat had publicly spoken against the need for three carriers and had called them ‘sitting ducks’. He also said the Navy’s demand for a second indigenous aircraft would be considered after assessing performance of indigenously-built aircraft carriers.
Incidentally, former Navy chief Admiral Kumar wanted to place a repeat order of INS Vikrant which is a mere 45,000-tonnes aircraft. Previous chiefs had spoken of the need to have a larger aircraft carrier which can take more fighters and tilt the scales in warfare rather than carrying a limited number of aircraft.
Sources in the defence establishment said that INS Vikramaditya, which is a refurbished Russian aircraft carrier, will have to be phased out in the next 10-12 years.
They said plans continue for a second indigenous aircraft carrier which will be its replacement. “An aircraft carrier will take about 10 to 12 years to build, starting from the sanction stage. Several within the Indian Navy felt the need for the second indigenous aircraft carrier should not be projected as a third but replacement for Vikramaditya,” a source said.
A project study initiated during the tenure of former defence minister Manohar Parrikar decided the second indigenous carrier would be a 65,000 CATOBAR (Catapult Assisted Take Off but Arrested Recovery) system with electric propulsion.
The government at that time wanted the Indian Navy to be at maximum a two-carrier based force rather than three and more. The government has always believed that sea denial is important through the use of submarines.
It was felt that aircraft carriers were capital intensive—it was not just the aircraft carriers cost but also that of the entire Carrier Battle Group and fighter aircraft.
I am not against this idea of having 2 carriers instead of 3. But the new carrier should not be a copy of Vikrant but it should be 65k tonnes CATOBAR type carrier.
And if there will be almost two carriers then what is the point of developing TEDBF? The most they will procure is around 80-90.
What this really means is instead of designing a new carrier now, they are gonna push it away by half a decade, so it can be pursued for construction after 2035 for service entry after 2045. And it makes sense that the govt wants a sea denial posture guaranteed, hence the need for increased spending on subs and destroyers.
Given the sorry state of the Kuznetsov, the Vikramaditya is probably a drain on the INs budget. The initial retirement date for it was ~2040. Now, they are probably looking to do it sooner.
In any case, the Rafale won't be compatible with the Russian systems aboard Vikky. Two completely different philosophies. Maintaining her boiler-based propulsion system is no easy task either.
Might as well hold a SINKEX and send her under. Vikrant can hold up fine till IAC-2 arrives.
In any case, the Rafale won't be compatible with the Russian systems aboard Vikky. Two completely different philosophies. Maintaining her boiler-based propulsion system is no easy task either.
Might as well hold a SINKEX and send her under. Vikrant can hold up fine till IAC-2 arrives.
Let's make peace with another Vikrant class, it's sufficient for the sea denial mission. There is a long term program for bigger carriers anyway. I want us to jump straight to nuclear.
Two Vikrants will need 80-90 jets, it meets the threshold required for local production. There's export potential for it, even the carrier, and even a fixed wing version with a lighter landing carriage.
Kuznetsov was commissioned in 1991, Vikky was rebuilt and commissioned in 2013. So there's a lot of life left. In fact, it won't just operate until 2040, but will even get a significant life extension.
Even if the Modi govt has delayed their carrier program, the IN will still maintain a three-carrier force until a replacement arrives.
Kuznetsov is being upgraded to operate for another 25 years. So even Vikky will go through a major MLU in the 2030s for a 20+ year life.
The current lot of boilers on Vikram are very advanced and reliable. And the air complex will be upgraded to allow the use of other aircraft; Rafale and TEDBF.
I don't disagree with getting another Vikrant class, if for nothing else than keeping the production line running and limiting the talent loss that is happening with the lack of orders. I do hope they make changes to the lifts.
I used to subscribe to the belief that India would go straight to nuclear, but I think unless a foreign partner shares nuclear propulsion technology/experience with the IN, they will go for a conventional catobar first while developing a reactor capable of the power needed for a large surface vessel.
Might actually be nice for India to experiment with a nuclear-powered cruiser or aux vessel first to get the technology mature.
Do you think there be a large demand for a 4.5gen stobar fighter in 10 years? I know Indonesia was interested in consulting with India about carrier designs... but there's heavy competition from SK and China in this realm. Also, by the time TEDBF is ready I'm sure there will be UCAV offerings that would satisfy the requirements for the smaller navies that want some naval aviation capabilities. I think a modified type 076 style would suit the needs of these green water navies more, no?
I do think the TEBDF should continue, India needs more not less reliance on foreign suppliers. This program is great even if it is just a subsidy by the government to the aviation industry.
Its not just about age. The Kuznetsov's upgrade is taking forever. That raises questions about Russian industry's competence in carrier repairs. Heck, Sevmash didn't even carrier-building experience before working on the Vikky.
The MiG-29K fleet is plagued with problems of ts own. Without a drastic turnaround, we might well lose them all to crashes than enemy action.
When was the last time Vikky deployed beyond our immediate neighborhood again?
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Apparently, BARC says they need 20 years to make a reactor available. If they have a paper design ready, then I guess 15 years. So the issue isn't the ship itself, but the reactor. Anyway, they have the experience necessary due to SSBN/SSN programs anyway.
One of the main advantages for Vikrant is it's going to be a proven design and much cheaper than alternatives. Other than that, economies like Vietnam and Indonesia will have become large enough to neccesiate the building of large navies that can counter China, so it's a given that a small carrier can be pursued by either one or both of them. Plenty of other countries will start getting rich enough for a carrier too; Mexico, Brazil, S Africa etc. Some of these will be looking for anti-China options.
Nobody's planning for an exclusive unmanned capability for carriers this generation, especially with all that civilian traffic going around haphazard. Plus UCAVs need support structures that only the super rich can afford, one of the reasons why warfare will only belong to the rich in the future.
While modified AAS designs are competitors, they will end up with more expensive aircraft options. So the cost factor is still in India's favor. Rafale M already costs over $130M per unit, never mind 10 years from now. TEDBF will cost $80M at worst. KF-21's naval version is not going to be built in sufficient numbers either, plus the program is yet to get approval. The rest are going to be more expensive 5th and 6th gen models with more strings attached.
As for TEDBF, the potential numbers make it important. IN's STOBAR requirement alone is for 120-150 for 3 carriers. Theaterization may allow the IN to equip coastal bases. Money's not going to be a factor by 2040, so up to 5 squadrons protecting up to 5 naval bases is the potential in its ORCA form. Vizag, Karwar, 2 for A&N. Even Mumbai. Personally, I'd like to see the SFC equipped with 2 squadrons of ORCA in the 2040s. That's a potential 13 squadrons.
It should be nuclear powered 100k tonne... Why limit to just 65k ?
The Hindu vs The Print
Yeah, nothing's changed, just delayed.
He said, “India has one more carrier — INS Vikramaditya — sourced from Russia in 2013. We will not stop at that (three carriers). We will make five, six more.”
Since IAC-2 will be built around the Rafale-M, the ski-jump and flight deck could be quite different from the Vikrant's.
Perhaps a wider beam to accommodate a diverse airwing as the IN is also developing CCAs.
A twin-island arrangement could be a distinct possibility.
Perhaps a wider beam to accommodate a diverse airwing as the IN is also developing CCAs.
A twin-island arrangement could be a distinct possibility.
Edit: The Brits would be hoping against hope that we sign for their MT-30 based IEPS. Though, the IN is likely would retain the LM-2500 COGAG arrangement.
Highly unlikely. We are supposed to sign the deal for IEPS for our LHDs anyways. So, it will eventually have to come to IAC-2.