GTRE Kaveri Engine

marich01 said:
The test facilities are in house designed and developed. That also takes time. All the wind tunnels installed in DRDL, CAS BM site etc are thoroughly in house designed developed then full facility built as per it. Same goes for the Navy too, usually consultants are hired for various work but the final facility is put together by the respective labs. There are groups dedicated for such work & over 100 people work on this.
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so you mean we dont have any expertise on it?
thats shame,
i have heard about flight test bed since we don't have any expertise in modifying those foreign jets and require OEM consultation for it.
we cant do that in india we should rather modify MIG-29 or su-30 for it that would be easier approach, thats how safran certified m88 engine.
 
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I am sorry if I am asking this in wrong thread, I couldn't find another thread for engine.

I was wondering why govt is not pushing for simultaneous and parallel development of two engines.
One with RR+DRDO and second one with Russia/France+ A private consortia or company.

Since RR has proposed to develop a more advanced technology development and it's like from ground up.. drdo and RR could be best for spearheading it, pooling both of their expertise.

While russian and france have much more experience in higher thrust engine and they are proposing development based off previously developed or in development engines. Their expertise can provide much needed handholding for our nascent private aero industry. At the same time, the private company can make up for lack of expertise( compared to drdo) with their more robust work ethic.

This could also diversify and hedge our strategic interests. And maybe even bring a sense of competition between the two partnerships resulting in better product.
My reasoning is that if parallel development happens, it will be the battle of reputation for foreign firm. Imagine India is gearing up to chose it's engine with potential for big big order.. it's like the battle of technology cause India won't just be a market but a battleground to show their prowess to the world. With europe and Russia investing in new warfare concepts.. i believe they could be very serious as they can even potentially gain experience in battling chinese tech. Cause proximity does breed familiarity.

And it can be the win win situation for all since IAF , IN, IA will need variety of systems requiring powerplants for their needs not limited to AMCA.

Maybe the IPR of private+foreign can be shared so, funding can come from both of them with only oversight from govt for national security purpose.

Surely, India can invest this much. Cause it's not just engine but the ecosystem which retains knowledge and builds capability and capacity in various domains.
What are your thoughts?
 
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PTC Industries, located in defence corridor , Lucknow, is now making super alloys. Mr Rajnath Sing, inaugurated the complex recently. They are establishing various facilities including forgings and machining. They have already commissioned a vacuum arc furnace. for products with super alloys. They have started getting orders from Safraan, France as per the media report.
 
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DEVELOPMENT OF INDIGENOUS DEFENCE TECHNOLOGIES​

Ministry of Defence (MoD) is allocating funds towards the R&D for indigenous defence technologies.

Posted On: 25 JUL 2025 3:19PM by PIB Delhi

Ministry of Defence (MoD) is allocating funds towards the R&D for indigenous defence technologies. During the last three years, DRDO was sanctioned projects worth Rs 29,558.66 crore.
The yearly break-up of funds is as follows:

YearNo. of projects
sanctioned		Cost (Rs. in Cr)
01-Jan-2023 to 31-Dec-202340Rs 3,842.71 Cr
01-Jan-2024 to 31-Dec-202443Rs 22,175.49 Cr
01-Jan-2025 till date20Rs 3,540.46 Cr

Kaveri Derivative Engine (KDE), is the power plant for the remotely piloted strike aircraft (IUCAV aircraft). In this regard two projects have been sanctioned namely Flightworthy Kaveri Dry Engine Development with the cost of Rs 472.42 crore and Technology Demonstration of Kaveri Derivative 'Dry' Engine with the cost of Rs 251.17 crore.

Several structural reforms are being undertaken to enhance civil-military partnership in the defence ecosystem. Some of the key reforms are given as under:
· Development-cum-Production-Partners (DcPP) are identified to ensure faster prototype development and faster transition to production phase, thereby enhancing the defence ecosystem.

· Industries are included in the loop for faster realisation technologies developed through academic projects, through DRDO Industry Academia-Centre of Excellence (DIA-CoE).

· Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), the certification agency of DRDO, is working closely with its domestic civil counterpart i.e. DGCA for common approach in Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) certification. CEMILAC’s MoD approved guiding document certification IMTAR V2.0 has provisioned the adoption of civil drone certification for lower weight UAV thus enabling common certification criteria for both civil military use.

· CEMILAC is also interacting with certification agencies (EASA & ANAC) and aircraft OEM (Airbus & Embraer) for civil-military derivative aircrafts methodology for certification so that domestic DcPP can obtain certification in India.

· DRDO has entered into MOUs with defence industrial corridors TIDEL Park Ltd and UPEIDA to collaborate as knowledge partner for sharing of ideas, resources and expertise for development of Defence Industrial Corridors.

· DRDO has established 15 DRDO Industry Academia Centres of Excellence (DIA-CoE) across the country at IISc Bangalore, various IITs and Central/State Universities to encourage directed research for developing new technologies for defence and security in identified areas.

· DRDO has evolved a new ToT policy and procedures with zero ToT fee for its industry partners (Development cum Production Partners (DcPP)/ Development Partner (DP)) and zero royalty for supply to Indian Armed Forces and Govt Deptt.

· Several world class test facilities have now been opened for industries in DRDO labs and necessary SOP has been formulated.

· DRDO patents are available on DRDO website for use by industries. These patents are available free of cost to industries to enable Aatmanirbhar Bharat.

· DRDO has launched Technology Development Fund (TDF) which provides financial support to the Indian industries for the design development of innovative defence products.

· Dare to Dream 4.0 contest as launched during Def Expo with 10 problem statements to encourage innovation through the Indian scientific community. Dare to Dream is a scheme to promote individuals and start-ups for innovations in Defence & Aerospace.

This information was given by Raksha Rajya Mantri Shri Sanjay Seth in a written reply to Shri Tejasvi Surya in the Lok Sabha today.
 
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Kaveri Derivative Engine (KDE), is the power plant for the remotely piloted strike aircraft (IUCAV aircraft). In this regard two projects have been sanctioned namely Flightworthy Kaveri Dry Engine Development with the cost of Rs 472.42 crore and Technology Demonstration of Kaveri Derivative 'Dry' Engine with the cost of Rs 251.17 crore.
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calutronking said:
Not to mention restricted technology, certain classes of wind tunnels and other high end test facilities are also considered secrets by their respective countries.
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yes, usually local companies sign mou with foreign partners for some of the critical test facility design & implementation work and get clearance signed by the said county. for the high speed wind tunnel there were mou and agreement signed by different participants back at the time.

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GTRE is supposed to carry out engine developments to Kaveri Engine with regard to Thermal capability, Thrust to weight ratio, Composite material for by-pass duct, New fan design for better distortion tolerance, powder metallurgy disks etc. Does anyone know the latest information with regard to these developments?
 
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Do you believe the opposition will spare the government for using so much of money to buy and make 2 engines instead of 1 for our current requirement? Lets leave the opposition, do you believe we have the funds to invest so much for engines alone that we can compromise on other critical defence acquisitions and development? We need to at least become a 5-7 trillion dollar economy to fund these kinda projects when our defence eco system havent matured to the degree of nations like korea or japan, not to mention we are still technologically behind some advanced developed countries in terms of know how and know why on designing advanced machinery and weapons, the only thing we probably are relative to advanced countries are probably in missile tech much of which was handed to us by the Russian's and Israeli's however I'm glad that we are closing to breaking point of indigenizing most of these technology and even made some of our own and is even developing future platforms on our own now.
Subgradewalker said:
I am sorry if I am asking this in wrong thread, I couldn't find another thread for engine.

I was wondering why govt is not pushing for simultaneous and parallel development of two engines.
One with RR+DRDO and second one with Russia/France+ A private consortia or company.

Since RR has proposed to develop a more advanced technology development and it's like from ground up.. drdo and RR could be best for spearheading it, pooling both of their expertise.

While russian and france have much more experience in higher thrust engine and they are proposing development based off previously developed or in development engines. Their expertise can provide much needed handholding for our nascent private aero industry. At the same time, the private company can make up for lack of expertise( compared to drdo) with their more robust work ethic.

This could also diversify and hedge our strategic interests. And maybe even bring a sense of competition between the two partnerships resulting in better product.
My reasoning is that if parallel development happens, it will be the battle of reputation for foreign firm. Imagine India is gearing up to chose it's engine with potential for big big order.. it's like the battle of technology cause India won't just be a market but a battleground to show their prowess to the world. With europe and Russia investing in new warfare concepts.. i believe they could be very serious as they can even potentially gain experience in battling chinese tech. Cause proximity does breed familiarity.

And it can be the win win situation for all since IAF , IN, IA will need variety of systems requiring powerplants for their needs not limited to AMCA.

Maybe the IPR of private+foreign can be shared so, funding can come from both of them with only oversight from govt for national security purpose.

Surely, India can invest this much. Cause it's not just engine but the ecosystem which retains knowledge and builds capability and capacity in various domains.
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
batman said:
Do you believe the opposition will spare the government for using so much of money to buy and make 2 engines instead of 1 for our current requirement? Lets leave the opposition, do you believe we have the funds to invest so much for engines alone that we can compromise on other critical defence acquisitions and development? We need to at least become a 5-7 trillion dollar economy to fund these kinda projects when our defence eco system havent matured to the degree of nations like korea or japan, not to mention we are still technologically behind some advanced developed countries in terms of know how and know why on designing advanced machinery and weapons, the only thing we probably are relative to advanced countries are probably in missile tech much of which was handed to us by the Russian's and Israeli's however I'm glad that we are closing to breaking point of indigenizing most of these technology and even made some of our own and is even developing future platforms on our own now.
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I made distinction in the model to pursue two seperate engine development.
1. State led
2. Private led

It reduces the burden on the government. With written assurances of orders on a successful engine development, private players have huge incentive to go in the project.
Meanwhile they can use the technology gained for their other commercial purposes and even exports under govt oversight.

While state led engine gets competitive push and remains classified/non export and acts as a foundation for further development inside state led R&D.

So, yes.. private players have the funds. Ample funds. And while state led project have 100% IP. The private led consortia(india owned - foreign jv) can decide their own IP share between them. And most of private players have their own network of academia that they can direct the conceptual knowledge to.
 
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