Dedicated Bomber for IAF : Arguments

Paro

Bloom17
Dec 2, 2017
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No absolutely wrong. B1 and tu-160 cannot penetrate modern iads . The b2 and especially the b21 can.
you won't have iads covering the entire airspace at any given time. There will always be holes in the border, space assets will assist in finding the holes, and EW assets will assist in poking the holes making them wider.

You'll need aircraft with high load capacity and enough range to circumvent iads reach the target and that's where these bombers come in if they are ever bought.
 
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randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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I don't have even 5% belief that we ll buy Tu 160.
How long will it take get those, train and get mission ready?

A lease will be quick. 2 jets a year is possible. And we should be able to keep that going for nearly 10 years or so.

Just 1 bomber can make up for a full MKI squadron.
 
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randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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No absolutely wrong. B1 and tu-160 cannot penetrate modern iads . The b2 and especially the b21 can.

It depends, but it can.

It's not the physical size that counts, it's the RCS, EW suite and any other defences available. It has better defences than fighters. And it compensates for its large size with speed and range.

If we get something like the B-2 or B-21, PAK DA etc, then we won't need the Tu-160. But stealth bombers aren't yet available to us. The mere possibility of the Tu-160 is a very big deal.
 
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Jul 25, 2022
23
5
None
It depends, but it can.

It's not the physical size that counts, it's the RCS, EW suite and any other defences available. It has better defences than fighters. And it compensates for its large size with speed and range.

If we get something like the B-2 or B-21, PAK DA etc, then we won't need the Tu-160. But stealth bombers aren't yet available to us. The mere possibility of the Tu-160 is a very big deal.
Russia has repeatedly shown that they overestimated their weapons. With those inlets it definitely won’t be stealthy .
 

Hydra

Senior member
May 19, 2020
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It depends, but it can.

It's not the physical size that counts, it's the RCS, EW suite and any other defences available. It has better defences than fighters. And it compensates for its large size with speed and range.

If we get something like the B-2 or B-21, PAK DA etc, then we won't need the Tu-160. But stealth bombers aren't yet available to us. The mere possibility of the Tu-160 is a very big deal.
Problem with TU 160 is, its a Russian platform.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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you won't have iads covering the entire airspace at any given time. There will always be holes in the border, space assets will assist in finding the holes, and EW assets will assist in poking the holes making them wider.

You'll need aircraft with high load capacity and enough range to circumvent iads reach the target and that's where these bombers come in if they are ever bought.

It's unclear what sort of weapons are being made available for the modernised Tu-160M2, but currently known inventory consists of just cruise missiles. So penetration is unnecessary for most missions.

What it does provide is the ability to strike deep inside China. We didn't need bombers before because we didn't have the munitions necessary for this task, except BMs, and we still don't. Different story now that MTCR will allow us to import such missiles along with the bomber.

With that said, I'd like to see our potential Tu-160s integrated with Indian glide bombs.
 
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randomradio

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Russia has repeatedly shown that they overestimated their weapons. With those inlets it definitely won’t be stealthy .

Depends on what you call stealth. Even the standard Tu-160 has a frontal RCS less than 1m2. Then came the Tu-160M followed by the latest Tu-160M2, with further enhancements.

No one in the analyst or expert circle has either underestimated or overestimated Russian weapons. In fact, in many areas Russian weapons are exceeding expectations, like TOS-1A and Pantsir.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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Problem with TU 160 is, its a Russian platform.

So?

The question should be if a particular Russian platform works as designed.

Simple fact of the matter is, if we don't like it, we won't buy it. Doesn't matter which country it is from.
 

Hydra

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May 19, 2020
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So?

The question should be if a particular Russian platform works as designed.

Simple fact of the matter is, if we don't like it, we won't buy it. Doesn't matter which country it is from.
Then tell me what attributed for the failure Russian weapons in Ukrain? How s400 failed to protect Crimea? Even top en SU35s got hit multiple times,, so as KA-52 too.
 
Jul 25, 2022
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How is this possible : 1 bomber = full mki squad?
Source trust me bro.
Depends on what you call stealth. Even the standard Tu-160 has a frontal RCS less than 1m2. Then came the Tu-160M followed by the latest Tu-160M2, with further enhancements.

No one in the analyst or expert circle has either underestimated or overestimated Russian weapons. In fact, in many areas Russian weapons are exceeding expectations, like TOS-1A and Pantsir.
It is only LO from the front not from sideways and behind.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,337
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How is this possible : 1 bomber = full mki squad?
30/06/2022 passed off just like most other days - without any major event . People were outraged . Then Avi Raina came up with another dire prediction which was supposed to happen on 12/07/2022. That day too passed off without any major event . Since then Avi Raina is absconding.

FYI @Gautam
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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How is this possible : 1 bomber = full mki squad?

Depends on the payload, type of weapon and mission.

In terms of weapons, the Tu-160 can carry weapons the MKI cannot, like the new Kinzhal.

In terms of mission, the Tu-160 with its very small RCS, soft and hard kill defences, IWB and supersonic performance can penetrate enemy air space far more than the big, bloated MKI can with its external payload and subsonic speed. It's basically impossible for the MKI.

In terms of payload, can you imagine the kind of loadouts possible with the integration of bombs? In the same space as 1 Kh-101, we can carry 12 SAAWs. So that's potentially 144 SAAWs on 1 Tu-160 and on radar it will look no different than a clean LCA or Rafale does. It should be able to carry 36 500-1000Kg glide bombs as well.

Anyway, to do what 1 Tu-160 does, you basically need a full MKI squadron. For example, if we integrate the MKI with the same weapons as the Tu-160, then only 1 missile can be carried by the MKI at a time, which means you need 12 MKIs to match 1 Tu-160. And because it requires so many MKIs, planners won't even think of conducting such a mission. When it comes to bombs, it will be a penetration mission, which means the MKI will need support from A2A equipped fighters, like top cover, protection group etc. basically an entire squadron.
 
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randomradio

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Then tell me what attributed for the failure Russian weapons in Ukrain? How s400 failed to protect Crimea? Even top en SU35s got hit multiple times,, so as KA-52 too.

What failure? What's S-400 got to do with Crimea?

Su-35? Ka-52? Even the US has lost many jets and helicopters in poor countries, never mind against a NATO-equipped adversary.

It's like you're assuming the Indian top order batsmen should never get out and bowlers should never give away runs in a cricket match.
 
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Hydra

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May 19, 2020
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What failure? What's S-400 got to do with Crimea?

Su-35? Ka-52? Even the US has lost many jets and helicopters in poor countries, never mind against a NATO-equipped adversary.

It's like you're assuming the Indian top order batsmen should never get out and bowlers should never give away runs in a cricket match.
If Crimea was protected with s400 & the attack on Russian airforce base in Crimea happened, then it clearly a failure of s400.

US never lost an F15 during any campaign, that bird is their top line fighter, just like su35 of today's Russia.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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If Crimea was protected with s400 & the attack on Russian airforce base in Crimea happened, then it clearly a failure of s400.

How will the S-400 protect the base in that situation?

US never lost an F15 during any campaign, that bird is their top line fighter, just like su35 of today's Russia.

Fighting who?

Dude, you need to make sense.
 

Hydra

Senior member
May 19, 2020
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How will the S-400 protect the base in that situation?



Fighting who?

Dude, you need to make sense.
Then how UKrain managed to attack Crimea?

Iraq, yeas they we weak in 2003. But during first gulf war, iraq was a military power. Yugoslavia of mid 90s. US had fought reasonably powerfull countries, similar to current Russia Ukrain conflict.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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