Can India really threaten Pakistan over water?

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
So yes. Lets flood and destroy the local area or worse let the waters go to sea when there are people who are dying for it......... Hats off....

Ganga cannot be directly connected to Kaveri. Has to be connected through Mahanadi, Godaveri, Krishna, Palar and then Kaveri....Through a series of Check dams and canals... Letting waters into sea is criminal.. No idea which part of India u r from... U should feel the water scarcity to talk about it.....
So...draw lines on a map and then blink when it doesn't succeed. You want examples? And you want it specific to the part of India I am from, or to your region?
 

Vicky

Rajaraja Chola
Dec 1, 2017
337
369
Canada
So...draw lines on a map and then blink when it doesn't succeed. You want examples? And you want it specific to the part of India I am from, or to your region?
Yea. Blink even without trying? And I should pay 3 lakhs per decade worth of farm loan waivers? And want many farmers to commit suicide? Cos the governments can manufacture water right?. Environmentalists have been bests in destroying projects that can benefit people in long run.

Its more than drawing lines and the project will take 2 decades to finish if it starts now with 10 lakh crore investments. Its completely worth it considering the future water scarcity in some place. Better to be safe than sorry
 
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bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
Yea. Blink even without trying? And I should pay 3 lakhs per decade worth of farm loan waivers? And want many farmers to commit suicide? Cos the governments can manufacture water right?. Environmentalists have been bests in destroying projects that can benefit people in long run.
To quote you, 'yea', blink without even trying. The costs of trying, in ecological terms, are horrific; there is enough on that in the public domain, before you make the inevitable challenge to produce evidence to that effect. The governments cannot manufacture water, but it can use public policy to determine the use of water. Why not challenge me on practical examples either from my geography of origin or from yours?

And I'm sorry, nothing personal, but to say that environmentalists have been best at destroying projects that can benefit people in the long run is a very Trump-like attitude to possess. Does that mean that the Amazon rain forest has to go? Or does that mean that you would rather have a dam than have Silent Valley, to bring the issue home to you?

Its more than drawing lines and the project will take 2 decades to finish if it starts now with 10 lakh crore investments. Its completely worth it considering the future water scarcity in some place. Better to be safe than sorry
Brilliant.

It's more than drawing lines, and the project will take 2 decades to finish if it starts now with 10 lakhs crores investments.

And before doing any of this, you already know that it's completely worth it.

Words fail me. Probably that is for the best. You would not like it if the words came readily to my mouth or to my hands.
 

Vicky

Rajaraja Chola
Dec 1, 2017
337
369
Canada
To quote you, 'yea', blink without even trying. The costs of trying, in ecological terms, are horrific; there is enough on that in the public domain, before you make the inevitable challenge to produce evidence to that effect. The governments cannot manufacture water, but it can use public policy to determine the use of water. Why not challenge me on practical examples either from my geography of origin or from yours?

And I'm sorry, nothing personal, but to say that environmentalists have been best at destroying projects that can benefit people in the long run is a very Trump-like attitude to possess. Does that mean that the Amazon rain forest has to go? Or does that mean that you would rather have a dam than have Silent Valley, to bring the issue home to you?



Brilliant.

It's more than drawing lines, and the project will take 2 decades to finish if it starts now with 10 lakhs crores investments.

And before doing any of this, you already know that it's completely worth it.

Words fail me. Probably that is for the best. You would not like it if the words came readily to my mouth or to my hands.
Do pray tell me. Its possible lots of people will needed to be relocated. Designs must ensure forests lands are not flooded. And if water is diverted after Kosi River joins Ganga we dont need to worry about any mountain ranges in its path nor Bihar needs to worry about excess water every year for example. Same goes for Mahanadi too.

Am sure detailed environmental studies must be done and a best design based on ecological and cost analyses have to be chosen. First we need to have an draft. Then we need to consult the states, know their oppositions, decide the path, their respective sharing %, % of electricity produced etc and needs to fine tune that draft. Then an Niti Aayog type org with all state reps with water, environmental and engineering experts should sit and ensure that the project is proceeding as per plan. It will take 10 years for evveryone to please if a draft is prepared now. With Climate change and with predictions in water shortage looming around 2040-50's, oh yes. We need to do it now. Or else we will earn the curses of our next gen. Oh yea. It will be an engineering marvel. Only if the Chinese were sitting... Oh no.. This cannot be done... Too much work.. They would be like Indians right now... We have good Engineers who can do it...
 
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Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,343
925
India
It's not about personal traits; it's about what we stand for, and who we stand with. Do you want us to draw nine dashes in the ocean and claim all within it as ours, regardless of international law?



That is a question you have to ask others, who know me. As far as I am concerned, I am unable to figure out if there is something in me that I despise in others. I can give you a list of what I despise in others, and you can decide if any of these fits me, and hang me on that plank:
  • Hatred of the 'other'; includes religious 'others', ethnic 'others', linguistic 'others', gender 'others', but not political 'others'; there you are, a vulnerability!
  • Hatred of stupidity; posts that don't follow through their own argument to the logical conclusions;
  • Hatred of mass attacks: lone members standing for a deviation from the views of others being subjected to mass attacks by the majority;
  • Hatred of majoritarianism, meaning those who believe that if they are in the majority, they may overrule the rule of law, the Constitution and natural justice, and oppress minorities, and individuals; this, whether applied to Pakistan, or to Indian administered Jammu and Kashmir, or to India herself;
  • Hatred of indecency and inhumanity: cheering for the death of an opponent, or opponents; rejoicing over the death of another human being is indecent. If he/she was a criminal or a murderous autocrat, let us not praise him, but let us not rejoice over him;
......and these are a few of my favourite things.
Sometimes you need not to do what is right, but what is right to do.

I would like to know your opinion whether foreign office and policy makers shall follow such level of integrity while dealing with hawks outsides? Where we will land in such case? I would say bitten to death.

Rest I know you for long, and don't think myself in capacity to judge you. So no comment there. :)
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
Sometimes you need not to do what is right, but what is right to do.

I would like to know your opinion whether foreign office and policy makers shall follow such level of integrity while dealing with hawks outsides? Where we will land in such case? I would say bitten to death.

Rest I know you for long, and don't think myself in capacity to judge you. So no comment there. :)
Arranging and re-arranging words to sound good is fine on a net forum; in real life, we are determining our international credibility with our every mood, and our every message. Under the circumstances, if we do not want to follow the village housewife at a tap level of railing at our opponents, we need to do the fair and reasonable thing, and leave tricky Dicky habits to those who want to play games with the world. Ghazzafi tried the hardest and he failed; any reason we will do better?

As for you knowing me for long, I don't know what you mean, and don't know what you are identifying to connect, or why.
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,343
925
India
Arranging and re-arranging words to sound good is fine on a net forum; in real life, we are determining our international credibility with our every mood, and our every message. Under the circumstances, if we do not want to follow the village housewife at a tap level of railing at our opponents, we need to do the fair and reasonable thing, and leave tricky Dicky habits to those who want to play games with the world. Ghazzafi tried the hardest and he failed; any reason we will do better?

As for you knowing me for long, I don't know what you mean, and don't know what you are identifying to connect, or why.
Exactly sir, sounding saint on forum cause no harm. In fact we should always maintain the same stance on paper, in words.

Sir, in history, do we have any precedent when we were not exactly saint but got something somehow in interest of our nation? And we are taught we did the right thing with no hanky panky tricky dicky things?

Why US is the sole super power? Why Britain got a title "Great"? Why compared with Ghazzafi only?
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
Exactly sir, sounding saint on forum cause no harm. In fact we should always maintain the same stance on paper, in words.

Sir, in history, do we have any precedent when we were not exactly saint but got something somehow in interest of our nation? And we are taught we did the right thing with no hanky panky tricky dicky things?

Why US is the sole super power? Why Britain got a title "Great"? Why compared with Ghazzafi only?
I don't know; perhaps you know. Why don't you share it with us, Sir?
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,343
925
India
I don't know; perhaps you know. Why don't you share it with us, Sir?
Did you skipped last line of post? How many of them are saint and did they gained over saint ones(if exists) or not? Just giving you reasons why we may do better. Citing precedents only.

Ghazzafi tried the hardest and he failed; any reason we will do better?
 

Sathya

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
1,894
953
India
Not sure whether we will threaten, surely Bhrahmaputra is being more than threatened .. In another thread.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
889
410
Did you skipped last line of post? How many of them are saint and did they gained over saint ones(if exists) or not? Just giving you reasons why we may do better. Citing precedents only.
My response, Sir, is complete.
 

Avi

Administrator
Dec 1, 2017
244
340
India
Who deleted my comment here? @Avi did you? What kind of forum is this if you keep deleting valid comments?
The discussion shifted to personal attacks and preferences which was not the topic.
You have also failed to see that not only your comment selectively were deleted,the whole direction the discussions took was unacceptable.

The action is by a team-member and a due notice is visible to you.

Having said that , we would like to provide you the opportunity to register against the moderator action and review if you are willing to correct your post with relevant facts than attacking fellow members personally.

Refer to my signature for what this forum stands for !
 

Kshithij Sharma

Well-Known member
Dec 4, 2017
756
551
India
The discussion shifted to personal attacks and preferences which was not the topic.
You have also failed to see that not only your comment selectively were deleted,the whole direction the discussions took was unacceptable.

The action is by a team-member and a due notice is visible to you.

Having said that , we would like to provide you the opportunity to register against the moderator action and review if you are willing to correct your post with relevant facts than attacking fellow members personally.

Refer to my signature for what this forum stands for !
The entire discussion was going in the direction of one person who was repeatedly insisting on his whims and fancies while continually belittling others. I had to intervene to shut him up. Just look at his comments here. Why aren't those time wasting and misdirectional comments deleted too?

I had to attack his personality as it was causing annoyance and polluting the thread

I received no alerts tp deletion of my comment. I just happened to recheck the thread and find out.
 
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Avi

Administrator
Dec 1, 2017
244
340
India
The entire discussion was going in the direction of one person who was repeatedly insisting on his whims and fancies while continually belittling others. I had to intervene to shut him up. Just look at his comments here. Why aren't those time wasting and misdirectional comments deleted too?

I had to attack his personality as it was causing annoyance and polluting the thread

I received no alerts tp deletion of my comment. I just happened to recheck the thread and find out.

Firstly I have listed your first post for a review , minus the personal attacks. ( As I am part of this thread as a thread starter , I don't moderate this thread because posting and moderating on the same thread at the same time is not acceptable by any standards. )

Secondly , I will try to achieve that you get a notification of every moderator action henceforth.

Thirdly and most importantly by your own admission you let your emotions over-power the sanity of thought by means of personal attacks . Inview of that when your initial post was deleted we simultaneously deleted any replies or continuation of the same.

We have given all the members a big rope , a bit of banter to generate the heat is not harmful and I am sure no debate can happen without that. But the threshold is limited to not going personal with either religion or unacceptable language. As long as you play and not let emotions overpower you , you have equal right to put the sword across the said member/members. You will notice that its not limited to any but all.
 

nair

nair
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
1,759
2,455
Bangalore
Who deleted my comment here? @Avi did you? What kind of forum is this if you keep deleting valid comments?
Please follow the rules.... Discuss the topic rather than the poster.... Discuss the point of view not the poster..... We will be consistent in our moderation to guide members towards better quality of discussion.... The idea is to have a forum with high quality discussion......
 
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Kshithij Sharma

Well-Known member
Dec 4, 2017
756
551
India
Please follow the rules.... Discuss the topic rather than the poster.... Discuss the point of view not the poster..... We will be consistent in our moderation to guide members towards better quality of discussion.... The idea is to have a forum with high quality discussion......
I fully agree with you. As I said, the person was not allowing a discussion by outrightly belittling others, abusing Modi, abusing river linking projects and simply insisting his point of view without providing evidence to justify. He eben went on to state that a solution had to be given without reneging the IWT, thereby restricting discussion.

Please tell me, haven't I done a good job by chasing him off and bringing back sanity to discussion? After all, discussions are made between people. Topics don't discuss themselves. There is no way one can discuss with unreasonable people.

I will never abuse people who respect reason. I can assure you this much.
 

Shashank

Well-Known member
Dec 4, 2017
866
944
Ban galore
  • The govt decided to re-look at the implementation of the Indus Treaty after PM Modi decided to do so following the attack by Pak-backed terrorists on the Army camp at Uri in 2016
  • An inter-ministerial task force with Nripendra Mishra, principal secretary to the PM, and NSA Ajit Doval was formed to examine the IWT with Pakistan.
In keeping with its decision to review utilisation of Indus waters as part of its signalling that Pakistan cannot expect past voluntary concessions to continue as long as it exports terror to India, the government has moved further on a project to store water in Jammu and Kashmir's Kathua district.

Looking to fast-track utilisation of India's rights under the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT), the Central Water Commission (CWC) has finalised a detailed report on Ujh multi-purpose project and the government made it clear the proposal aims to harness water that was flowing untapped across the border. The project report has been submitted to the J&K government for evaluation so that construction may begin at an early date.

The project, which is to come up in Kathua district, will store around 0.65 million acre feet (MAF) of water from Ujh (a tributary of Ravi) to irrigate 30,000 hectares and produce over 200 MW of power.

The government decided to take a relook at the implementation of the Indus treaty after PM Narendra Modi decided to do so following the attack by Pakistan-backed terrorists on the Army camp at Uri in 2016. An inter-ministerial task force with Nripendra Mishra, principal secretary to the PM, and national security adviser Ajit Doval was formed to examine the IWT with Pakistan.

The Ujh project is a step towards India's utilisation of waters of the Indus and its tributaries in keeping with its rights under the treaty.

Under the IWT, signed with Pakistan in 1960, waters of Ravi are allocated to India. It, however, took the CWC 16 years to complete the process of detailed project report (DPR) after getting a formal nod to do so in 2001, following a political prompt from the current government. The task force was set up after India decided it will explore all options for utilising the maximum waters of the Indus system that is legally given to it under the treaty.

Govt moves to block Indus water to strike back at Pakistan
 

screambowl

Senior member
Dec 19, 2017
2,298
1,063
switzerland
They have killed our 2 crpf soldiers today and one army soldier in cross border firing
first save yourself from their army..
then talk big about blah blah strategic issues..

nonsense