What's new here? The Indian side giving overoptimistic timelines, while the Russians are providing realistic timelines.Story link
Air-Launched BrahMos Ready For Tests No Sooner Than 2026: Untangling Confusing Statements About Indian-russian Missile | Defense Express
The industry representatives from the russian side in the joint venture revealed their plans for tests of the BrahMos-MA missilesen.defence-ua.com
Brahmos Supersonic Cruise Missile : News, Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Manmohan_MMY
- Start date
STAR is just one application of the core tech which is LFRJ. Multiple weaponized versions are planned.
Absolutely
. Not only that, but if we master Liquid Fueled Ramjet tech/motor, we'll be able to indigenize BrahMos' LFR motor. If Russians object, then just develop our own alternative variant. Currently BrahMos is very expensive because its core motor is still Russian.Anyways, we still need Russians for BrahMos 2/desi Zircon until our own scramjet tech fully matures.
If the performance specs are comparable, the Brahmos M would be redundant. Im not an aerodynamics expert by any stretch but the STAR seems to have a more modern intake layout, smaller size and weight (could change in layer versions) and builds on learnings from the Brahmos jv.
That means a bigger loadout for our fighters and possibly subs. We have plenty of options when it comes to sub launched missiles including the NASM-MR. So that niche is taken care off as well.
AFAIK we are still dependent on the Russians for the ramjet engine. They have given us the know how but not the know why. If the LFRJ works as expected, then we could probably jump to the hypersonic Brahmos- 2 which is currently in limbo. No need to duplicate the effort imo.
That means a bigger loadout for our fighters and possibly subs. We have plenty of options when it comes to sub launched missiles including the NASM-MR. So that niche is taken care off as well.
AFAIK we are still dependent on the Russians for the ramjet engine. They have given us the know how but not the know why. If the LFRJ works as expected, then we could probably jump to the hypersonic Brahmos- 2 which is currently in limbo. No need to duplicate the effort imo.
It's not possible to replace with Indian motor because they will not allow it. There is enough of brahmos to go around. Better to focus on scramjet.Absolutely
Anyways, we still need Russians for BrahMos 2/desi Zircon until our own scramjet tech fully matures.
Scramjet tech is very novel and expensive. Having liquid fueled ramjet missile like BrahMos in mass number is going to be important for us to saturate PLA IADS. Hence, in my opinion, a BrahMos like fully Indian missile derived of STAR is going to give us that without BrahMos' only disadvantage, i.e., its price.
You are overestimating the price difference based on one component. It will still be very expensive compared to subsonic missiles. Only subsonic and ballistic can be used for saturation attacks. LORA and LRLACM like combo is the answer.
Scramjet one is entirely different case, you have to develop suitable materials, coating technique, precision valve systems, combustor, working communication system, hydrocarbon fuel, guidance and control systems and finally prove the same over flight trial missions. So a lot of stuff that are to be used would be first time developed application specific, aka very less volumetric demand initially. So the cost is obviously very high.
But if we just consider the supersonic usage, there is enough scope for cost to go down, and being more effective than any subsonic counterpart. Rest depends on use tactics. Once multiple working ramjet variants are available and tech base expand, from single solid rocket motor to dual pulse motors in use now, to multi pulse, to LFRJ based tactical applications, to SFDR based tactical applications, to general hypersonic glide body applications, there are many scope available to a mission planner should all the options are available besides the subsonic lacm and LORA like theater bm.
As we know, there are definite plans for tactical usage once the core tech is mature. We have already seen it with strategic systems,
But if we just consider the supersonic usage, there is enough scope for cost to go down, and being more effective than any subsonic counterpart. Rest depends on use tactics. Once multiple working ramjet variants are available and tech base expand, from single solid rocket motor to dual pulse motors in use now, to multi pulse, to LFRJ based tactical applications, to SFDR based tactical applications, to general hypersonic glide body applications, there are many scope available to a mission planner should all the options are available besides the subsonic lacm and LORA like theater bm.
As we know, there are definite plans for tactical usage once the core tech is mature. We have already seen it with strategic systems,
Not denying all of that. But a Ramjet cruise missile that flies just 50 feet above the ground(at times even lower) at Mach 2+ is an altogether different proposition to take out high value targets and completely saturate HQ-9 derivatives. It gives much less reaction time for enemy IADS to move/re-position. Of course, ITCM, LORA, Pralay and even our MLRS all form part of this joint endeavour.
How feasible is it for the Brahmos' existing ramjet to hit Mach 5?
Iirc they have an upgrade roadmap that will increase its speed up to 1.5 times. Can't remember clearly but reports indicated they were either going to use an upgraded solid booster or develop a more energetic fuel.
They showed roadmap for that, to increase speed but given no set timeline involved and frankly this being a jv which depends on ToT from 2 different Government agencies, the roadmap is worth nothing until it happens. However they seem to be fixated on NG/MA being primarily air and submarine torpedo tube launched as big usp of this system. Regular Brahmos needs hardpoint hardening for air launch, plus was not 533mm torpedo tube compatible before. This version is primarily export oriented, or so they hope.
Will it only need new materials to operate in a higher Mach regime or will the airframe need modifications too?
Also, hypersonic missile apparently need to slow down in the terminal phase to acquire their targets which makes them easy prey for anti-missile systems. What's the reason for that? Is it just the seeker that experiences interference at hypersonic speeds or do other RF components like altimeters and data links also start lagging? TIA.
Also, hypersonic missile apparently need to slow down in the terminal phase to acquire their targets which makes them easy prey for anti-missile systems. What's the reason for that? Is it just the seeker that experiences interference at hypersonic speeds or do other RF components like altimeters and data links also start lagging? TIA.
At hypersonic speeds(Mach 5+), plasma clouds/layers is formed. Plasma has the ability to completely absorb all Radio/Electromagnetic Waves, thus missile has to slow down in terminal phase to get rid of this syndrome and acquire the target.
So my speculation about India developing fully indigenous Ramjet Supersonic cruise missile comes true: @Ashwin