AUKUS : US, UK and Australia forge military alliance to counter China

Amarante

Well-Known member
Jun 22, 2021
435
381
La Défense, France
too much burning in france, but aussies just like UK do not have independent foreign policy.
More academic than my previous post,

US to ramp up military presence in Australia​

 

vargr

Member
Sep 1, 2021
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95
Norway
View attachment 21035

Time to reach choke points.

Even the sustained patrol ranges are going to be different from what's posted. An AIP submarine isn't going to patrol. It's going to lurk in one spot an hop short distances if it spots a contact. A nuclear boat will patrol, slowly, but they'll move. The more an AIP submarine moves the shorter its patrol range since they have a finite fuel source. Even close to short the patrol endurance of an AIP submarine is going to differ from what the map says base on the speed and crew size of the AIP submarine.

Side observation:

One of the biggest myths I encounter with civilians when discussing submarines is that they assume AIP submarines are inherently quieter then a nuclear boat. This just isn't true. When at rest both will be almost equally undetectable given a nuclear boat's larger size and more quieting dampeners built in and an AIP submarine quiet power supply. Only minor emitters like computers, communications, crew and minor machinery will be making synthetic "noise" everything else will come from the water's movement around the submarine. An AIP submarine is not less noisy then a nuclear boat when at rest, but they are harder to detect in near-shore (littoral) waters due to their smaller size.

When in motion a nuclear boat is noisier, but faster and the faster an AIP boat goes the nosier it becomes too, and the lower its ranger becomes. AIP boats only have ranges in the thousands of knots when moving slow. Nuclear boats are inherently more noisy when moving faster, but generally they move slowly unless transiting between continents. On patrol they'll crawl. Nuclear boast are still extremely quiet when moving however given their internal machinery is dampened and their crews should be trained on emissions control when at their most vulnerable.

I've done a lot of past long form posts on this forum on the subject in the past. Maybe I'll track them all down and post them in a central location.
 

RISING SUN

Senior member
Dec 3, 2017
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TBH I agree, Germany doesn't even maintain what equipment it has properly.

Macron has really thrown the teddy out of the pram though.


Perhaps we should send him a slice of cake.
 
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Tatvamasi

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Jan 5, 2018
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E_klSLaWQAEE0mB
 
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Lolwa

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Feb 6, 2020
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Personally indo-french ties will be the next indo-russian tie-up..
I think we might see more french platforms and co-development of systems with the French in the near future. And I guess some nuke tech too. If India exploits it correctly we can even use it to improve our space program. The French though will have to become more flexible and have to trust us if they still want to remain a reliable player in the indo-pacific region.
This feels all to reminiscent of the franco-maratha alliance..
 
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randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Personally indo-french ties will be the next indo-russian tie-up..
I think we might see more french platforms and co-development of systems with the French in the near future. And I guess some nuke tech too. If India exploits it correctly we can even use it to improve our space program. The French though will have to become more flexible and have to trust us if they still want to remain a reliable player in the indo-pacific region.
This feels all to reminiscent of the franco-maratha alliance..

We many need assistance in the development of 4th gen sub and ship reactors, perhaps even higher.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Yeah, I'm sure you could nuke tip a Brahmos if needed.

We won't do that, though. We want to largely keep our conventional weapons separate from nuke weapons. So if we ever go for a nuke-tipped CM, it will be a purpose-built missile. For now, gravity bombs are the most reliable air-launched method for nukes.
 
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thinkingcap81

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Jun 2, 2019
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India
Maybe to placate France, US will need to give them compensatory deals. This could be advantageous for us if we can get US fighter jets off our backs. Also some European other defence deals might come through. We can also bargain with France over the P75I project.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
14,983
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Maybe to placate France, US will need to give them compensatory deals. This could be advantageous for us if we can get US fighter jets off our backs. Also some European other defence deals might come through. We can also bargain with France over the P75I project.

That's very bad for us. We need the Super Hornet competing with the Rafale and Typhoon. It's because of the SH that the French need to provide a competitive price, in case it gets shortlisted. If only the Typhoon competes, then Dassault gets some additional leeway in pricing since the Typhoon is at least 25% more expensive. If we want the US jets off our backs, then it has to be on our terms, not someone else's terms.

It's the same story with the P-75I, although I don't see how the US can provide any sort of compensation here. The point is if the French do not have a competitor, you can kiss your bank balance goodbye. Australia learnt this the hard way.

This is a problem between US and France, so we shouldn't interfere in any way. The SSN export itself opens up a whole new can of worms. Imagine if China and Russia decide to supply nuke subs to Pakistan and Iran resply. I don't really know what the Americans are thinking right now.
 
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Lolwa

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Maybe to placate France, US will need to give them compensatory deals. This could be advantageous for us if we can get US fighter jets off our backs. Also some European other defence deals might come through. We can also bargain with France over the P75I project.
That ain't happening. The French will throw a sissy fit and will be placated. U.S MIC is quite ruthless when it comes to defence deals. So the Super-hornet can't just be discarded..
 
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