Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict 2020

RISING SUN

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We recently signed a deal with Armenia to supply swathi WLR systems. Does this mean we will continue to provide material support to them? I think we should stick it right up Erdogan's *censored*.. Continue to support Armenians
India doesn't have the capabilities to help in any major way to a landlocked country, especially in struggle against its neighbour countries.
Armenia is numerically inferior than Azerbaijan. Does it has advantages in other areas to compensate for it???
@vstol Jockey @randomradio
Russia is its trump card, nothing else in my understanding.
 

RISING SUN

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Erdogan is sending large number of Syrian terrorists to Azarbaijan to fight Armenia



Christian world doesn't exist. Christian nations are ruled by secularists and they don't give a shit if Christians die as long as it's in the interest of their wider global objectives. Armenia is allied with Russia, and that is good enough reason for west not to do anything.

I wouldn't be surprised if they support islamists just like they did against Serbian Christians.
Christian world is also affected and devided over sectarian lines, catholic Church against orthodox Christianity church etc. That adds whole lot of differences leading to catastrophic results as evident in historical records. @BMD
 

jetray

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Mar 15, 2018
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Turkish Drones are a serious threat, as proven in Syria, Libya and now in in Armenia. Peoples tend to have a habit to downplay the importance of new technologies, and drones are a serious threat to any military. Iranian drones also repeatedly penetrated American military installations during the last few years.


Drones have an ability fighters don't have, the ability to hover over battle field for a long time to search and destroy targets. In Syria, Turkish Drones forced Russians not to go to the front during the last escalation in idlib and Russian troops in front was essentially hiding.


Videos of Azarbaijan drone attacks ' Armanian atgm attacks

No doubt drones and satellite will play a big role in future armed conflicts. Gone are the days where commanders would have luxury of time to plan & then direct attacks instead they have to be directing attacks in real time. India is buying considering buying armed drones from outside. It is certainly going to cost another few billions of dollar.

Drones & unmanned vehicles will become ubiquitous like missiles in warfare. India will have to step up and start producing it locally at affordable cost if we ever want to even have the capability to fight back. Even a half effective drone in large numbers will over come the deficiency in firepower. I bet our military will still be using 30 years old strategy of dog fight or armored thrust while the rest of the world would have moved on.
 
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jetray

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Azeris claiming Armenia initiated this conflict are absolute clowns. Armenia has nothing to gain from conflict, and definitely wouldn't initiate when Turkey is presently in Azerbaijan (and now assisting with the Azeri offense). Not to mention the widespread rumors of Turkish militias assisting the Azeri advance.

Armenia has already offered to cede Azeri majority regions of Artsakh as long as a corridor between Armenia and Karabakh could be maintained...which the Azeris and Turks vehemently refuse.

It honestly wouldn't be a stretch to say that the ultimate goal of the Turks is the total conquest and cleansing of Armenians in the region. Armenia is currently the physical block in-between Turkey and the greater Turkic world.
True, only on maps it is azerbaijan territory but on the ground ethnic armenian rebels have in control since the break up of soviet. Its the turkeys support that has egged azerbaijan to increase the intensity of the long smoldering conflict. Erdogan will now convert this into another jihad and call upon muslim world to help azerbaijan.
 

randomradio

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Turkish Drones are a serious threat, as proven in Syria, Libya and now in in Armenia.

Very much overhyped. The Americans simply did not deploy the right weapons against drones. Same issue with Russia in Syria, they have the wrong weapons deployed on the field. Although they have the right weapons in Latakia, which successfully repelled drone attacks.

In fact the USAF cancelled more Reaper orders and even the Avenger drones due to survivability issues. The only drones that are survivable are stealth. The only way Predator and Turkish drones can be a threat is when up against an enemy that cannot fight back, which is the case in the countries you named.

There's going to be a massive proliferation of drone-killing air defences in the Middle East in a few years' time because of both Russia and Iran.

The Azeris were smart when they bought the Barak-8 and Barak-8ER from Israel long ago.
https://report.az/en/analytics/active-modernization-of-azerbaijani-army-confuses-armenia-comment/?__cf_chl_captcha_tk__=4fa14a1ed3b8907634122cb49330b9e84873929f-1601351336-0-AXaAHxCXGZQgHj3p_PcB8Xg4OuF8u99DgJRvIRSwSxJiWncyViHjsSSjiQX1MsQuEnOkUqJtF6-5Pon6MBtdpKoRQqwgVNLQMOGp-y1ek1vr0XtO7ZFNPzEWb7pK1Y6Tfz3T7-0ob-S1wFkBmqlGLD5j5Vr194Jh0_Lz8Yh0GLtOnsR7LGWEKp4FSkV4ODSd2cLqebTLSIysGZDUatY8iqa500rYKmVQf8rSI5Sdk4TlqTcnMT_GKSVjb01vhzLpGbDbX8WR5vznTEmLiLvCRffx0iXQ-eZKiq-hWUcnNfTkxeFx_j70FPXvyJSLuaLfd1HngV8E652hxPGKhr8agTMwPbrcv-72k4pyI-jM72WRl7xzdM-6fw1Trvz_U7ryQtmrzkaLMXEWcW2R-TPY_VBGyJy0EzR-O6MAWw_fldOTortO9PgW5ofGzFSP98uZRhJ0h3qds7oSYnDFvWnVA60n8sKmUk_LUZmBjXft4kwry0udIb5NxympGQpPVzYmOxSV31kTVDHXzu7Ss_9J2R8GEaJBGF8D2Lh1XAhcQGTG0JOhQ8GRcMjNWTQDQjPrYGFD5jQ6CgrJCPH4VQJt-lTdEf2wWjb8s1MmSRaIMklGQybTIVjlj5Sz5Jo2ICXfBzH9r8hWeiOqJAVWurR3wJM

The Armenians simply did not follow up with the commensurate amount of modernisation needed.
 
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randomradio

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Drones & unmanned vehicles will become ubiquitous like missiles in warfare. India will have to step up and start producing it locally at affordable cost if we ever want to even have the capability to fight back. Even a half effective drone in large numbers will over come the deficiency in firepower. I bet our military will still be using 30 years old strategy of dog fight or armored thrust while the rest of the world would have moved on.

India's gonna get modern drones at the same time the rest of the world gets it. Before 2030. That's roughly within a 5-year gap as more advanced countries.

Conventional armed drones will not add to our firepower.
 
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Volcano

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Very much overhyped. The Americans simply did not deploy the right weapons against drones. Same issue with Russia in Syria, they have the wrong weapons deployed on the field. Although they have the right weapons in Latakia, which successfully repelled drone attacks.

In fact the USAF cancelled more Reaper orders and even the Avenger drones due to survivability issues. The only drones that are survivable are stealth. The only way Predator and Turkish drones can be a threat is when up against an enemy that cannot fight back, which is the case in the countries you named.

There's going to be a massive proliferation of drone-killing air defences in the Middle East in a few years' time because of both Russia and Iran.

The Azeris were smart when they bought the Barak-8 and Barak-8ER from Israel long ago.
https://report.az/en/analytics/active-modernization-of-azerbaijani-army-confuses-armenia-comment/?__cf_chl_captcha_tk__=4fa14a1ed3b8907634122cb49330b9e84873929f-1601351336-0-AXaAHxCXGZQgHj3p_PcB8Xg4OuF8u99DgJRvIRSwSxJiWncyViHjsSSjiQX1MsQuEnOkUqJtF6-5Pon6MBtdpKoRQqwgVNLQMOGp-y1ek1vr0XtO7ZFNPzEWb7pK1Y6Tfz3T7-0ob-S1wFkBmqlGLD5j5Vr194Jh0_Lz8Yh0GLtOnsR7LGWEKp4FSkV4ODSd2cLqebTLSIysGZDUatY8iqa500rYKmVQf8rSI5Sdk4TlqTcnMT_GKSVjb01vhzLpGbDbX8WR5vznTEmLiLvCRffx0iXQ-eZKiq-hWUcnNfTkxeFx_j70FPXvyJSLuaLfd1HngV8E652hxPGKhr8agTMwPbrcv-72k4pyI-jM72WRl7xzdM-6fw1Trvz_U7ryQtmrzkaLMXEWcW2R-TPY_VBGyJy0EzR-O6MAWw_fldOTortO9PgW5ofGzFSP98uZRhJ0h3qds7oSYnDFvWnVA60n8sKmUk_LUZmBjXft4kwry0udIb5NxympGQpPVzYmOxSV31kTVDHXzu7Ss_9J2R8GEaJBGF8D2Lh1XAhcQGTG0JOhQ8GRcMjNWTQDQjPrYGFD5jQ6CgrJCPH4VQJt-lTdEf2wWjb8s1MmSRaIMklGQybTIVjlj5Sz5Jo2ICXfBzH9r8hWeiOqJAVWurR3wJM

The Armenians simply did not follow up with the commensurate amount of modernisation needed.


The drones that Russian repelled in Latakia is tiny cheap militant made drones that carry single tiny unguided mortar. Even those penetrated Russian airbase and dropped few mortars inside. They are not comparable to Turkish armed drones.


1601352491325.png


Turkish armed drones were operating in Idlib under the cover of f-16 which were staying behind in Turkish airspace. if you activate your airdefence assets, you will give up its position, if you sent fighter jets, you risk getting shot down by f-16 providing cover from behind. Turkish drones destroyed many Pantsir and Buk-M1 systems, apart from numerous armoured vehicles and 100s of soldiers. Iranian drones even managed to fly directly over American aircraft carriers, lets not pretend like US aircraft carrier battle group do not have air defense systems. Iranian drones are penetrating saudi airspace, including attack on oil refineries, which have good air defense systems.

Just 4 days before, Iranian drones once again penetrated US carrier battle group and flown directly over it,




 
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Volcano

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No doubt drones and satellite will play a big role in future armed conflicts. Gone are the days where commanders would have luxury of time to plan & then direct attacks instead they have to be directing attacks in real time. India is buying considering buying armed drones from outside. It is certainly going to cost another few billions of dollar.

Drones & unmanned vehicles will become ubiquitous like missiles in warfare. India will have to step up and start producing it locally at affordable cost if we ever want to even have the capability to fight back. Even a half effective drone in large numbers will over come the deficiency in firepower. I bet our military will still be using 30 years old strategy of dog fight or armored thrust while the rest of the world would have moved on.


Yup. AMRAMs gave a reality check for Indian air-force few months back when they realized that PAF outguns them and thats when they started running for more/better air-air missiles. Any armored thrust is going to get slaughtered by ATGMS. Even during 1965 and 71 (western front) war, our armored formations got halted after few KM of thrust. Imagine whats gonna happen to T-72s and T-90s in hands of dug-in infantry with modern ATGMS.
 
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RISING SUN

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I meant material support... Like weapons, radars (already given) etc.
One needs a reliable corridor to supply the urgent material support absence of which can hamper supply as well as can lead to unintended delays. It can have catastrophic affect and can negatively affect the morale of friendly countries, hence in present situation, it's only Russia which can help against Ajarbaijan.
 

randomradio

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The drones that Russian repelled in Latakia is tiny cheap militant made drones that carry single tiny unguided mortar. Even those penetrated Russian airbase and dropped few mortars inside. They are not comparable to Turkish armed drones.

Actually, these drones are much, much harder to defeat than Turkish drones.

Turkish armed drones were operating in Idlib under the cover of f-16 which were staying behind in Turkish airspace. if you activate your airdefence assets, you will give up its position, if you sent fighter jets, you risk getting shot down by f-16 providing cover from behind. Turkish drones destroyed many Pantsir and Buk-M1 systems, apart from numerous armoured vehicles and 100s of soldiers. Iranian drones even managed to fly directly over American aircraft carriers, lets not pretend like US aircraft carrier battle group do not have air defense systems. Iranian drones are penetrating saudi airspace, including attack on oil refineries, which have good air defense systems.

The systems you named, Pantsir-S1, Buk M1 and PAC-3, none of these were capable of stopping some types of targets. It's actually why the US has decided to go for the Iron Dome in order to complement the Patriot. Russia's anti-drone systems are Pantsir-S2, Tor M2 and Buk M3. It's actually one of the reasons why Biho defeated Pantsir-S1 in India.

The problem is the Russians did not make the Pantsir-S1 specific to such a threat, it was also weak to ECM, which is why the Syrians suffered for it. Even today they are unable to stop Israeli PGMs and cruise missiles for the same reason.

Of course the Russians now claim they have made the upgrades necessary to bring down drones using the Pantsir. So it's possible drones are being shot down in significant numbers now.

Since early this year, Turkish drones have started coming down.

These drones are not something a serious military can use against a peer competitor.
 

randomradio

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Yup. AMRAMs gave a reality check for Indian air-force few months back when they realized that PAF outguns them and thats when they started running for more/better air-air missiles. Any armored thrust is going to get slaughtered by ATGMS. Even during 1965 and 71 (western front) war, our armored formations got halted after few KM of thrust. Imagine whats gonna happen to T-72s and T-90s in hands of dug-in infantry with modern ATGMS.

In the open field, our tanks will eat ATGM teams for breakfast.
 
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Saaho

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India doesn't have the capabilities to help in any major way to a landlocked country, especially in struggle against its neighbour countries.
I wonder what will happen if we fire few Agni 3 on Baku ... with conventional warheads ofcourse. I seriously doubt DRDO's technology. It will be a half way decent test. Heck, for the sake of it, test a nuke or two in real combat while we are at it.....











Just joking :)

Better push for UN peacekeeping forces to deploy there.
 

RISING SUN

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I wonder what will happen if we fire few Agni 3 on Baku ... with conventional warheads ofcourse. I seriously doubt DRDO's technology. It will be a half way decent test. Heck, for the sake of it, test a nuke or two in real combat while we are at it.....











Just joking :)

Better push for UN peacekeeping forces to deploy there.
That will be like axing own leg. Remember Armenia doesn't have claim on the disputed land except that it supports majority people (Christian people) against an oppressive regime of Muslim majority Ajarbaijan state. If I am correct, then land belongs to Ajarbaijan however as native people are Christian majority while Ajarbaijan is Muslim majority country, hence native people support separation from Ajarbaijan on religious ground. It's complex for Indian foreign ministry, hence silence and indirectly supporting status quo.