Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict 2020

Lolwa

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Feb 6, 2020
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No-pats?

Syrian fighters , American , Georgian, Ukrainian american , British volunteers. Wagner group. Essentially non-affiliated groups who can warcrime and states won't have any responsibility.
Yeah, I see Kazakhstan has a lot of oil and Turkmenistan has a lot of gas.

Reminder this is the region which fuelled the economy of USSR. So it's an extremely significant region.
 
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BMD

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Dec 4, 2017
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Syrian fighters , American , Georgian, Ukrainian american , British volunteers. Wagner group. Essentially non-affiliated groups who can warcrime and states won't have any responsibility.

Reminder this is the region which fuelled the economy of USSR. So it's an extremely significant region.
Russia surely has more than enough oil and gas without them. You would wonder how the USSR managed to economically collapse when it had that much oil and gas and RMEs. They seem to be able to fail no matter how many resources they have at their disposal. They're sort of like a nuclear version of Venezuela.
 

Lolwa

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Russia surely has more than enough oil and gas without them. You would wonder how the USSR managed to economically collapse when it had that much oil and gas and RMEs. They seem to be able to fail no matter how many resources they have at their disposal. They're sort of like a nuclear version of Venezuela.
It's the communism and lack of private enterprise.
 
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Amarante

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Jun 22, 2021
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La Défense, France
Meanwhile in Armenian- Azerbaijan Conflict .........
(intellinews.com, nov.01)

Putin's negotiations with Armenia and Azerbaijan don't bring any concrete results​

Armenian and Azerbaijani leaders pledged to "actively" work on a bilateral peace treaty but still need to iron out their differences on its critical provisions, following talks hosted by Russian President Vladimir Putin on October 31.

According to Putin, the two-hour trilateral meeting with Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan and Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev was "very useful" because it created a "very good atmosphere for possible future agreements on some key issues".

However, the statement neither touches on the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict nor mentions any details about Armenian POWs, the Zangezur corridor etc.

"Today we agreed on a joint statement," he said after the meeting in Sochi. "I must say frankly that not everything was agreed upon. Some things had to be taken out of the text worked out beforehand at the level of experts," he added without elaborating.

In the statement, Aliyev and Pashinyan said they "agreed to refrain from the use of force or the threat of its use and discuss and resolve all problematic issues solely on the basis of mutual recognition of sovereignty, territorial integrity and inviolability of borders".

"On the basis of existing proposals, it was agreed to continue the search for mutually acceptable resolutions," said the statement. "The Russian Federation will render all possible assistance to this."

Putin signalled that 'unresolved issues' will not be publicly discussed: "It is not necessary to draw the attention of the press and the public to them, but just calmly seek agreement behind closed doors," he said later. "These are very subtle things, sensitive for both sides, and I do not consider myself entitled to stick out without the consent of my partners," Putin concluded.

"It is still premature to talk about the main components of the peace treaty, since this is still the subject of compromises which must be reached on both sides through mediation," Putin later said, answering the media's questions. "For our part, we always welcome any efforts aimed at a settlement. Therefore, as for how this correlates: it correlates quite naturally," he said, answering a question about how does the EU-organised tripartite meeting in Prague compare with the tripartite summit in Sochi, "And we support everything that is aimed at reducing confrontation and settlement."

During the Valdai Summit on October 27, Putin had made an inflammatory remark on the Western diplomatic offensive. "If the Armenian people and the current Armenian leadership consider it necessary to choose a version of the peace agreement, the so-called Washington variant, which as I understand envisages the recognition of Azerbaijan's sovereignty over Karabakh as a whole, that is if Armenia thinks that way – then go ahead," Russian President Vladimir Putin said on October 27. "We will support the choice of the Armenian people."

None of these plans is known, but so far, it is clear that Putin was unable to convince Aliyev to delay the status of the Karabakh issue, which is the most sensitive subject for the Armenian side.

The Russian Federation is ready to provide the most accurate maps of the Soviet General Staff to resolve the issue of demarcating the border between Armenia and Azerbaijan, Putin said. "We are ready to provide the maps at our disposal of the General Staff of the Soviet Army. These are the most accurate maps, as we understand. And we are ready to move on this base, discussing with both sides. We agreed that these contacts, these negotiations, these consultations will be continued," Putin said.

According to Putin, the decision to extend the mandate of the Russian peacekeepers in Nagorno-Karabakh depends on other issues – the possible conclusion of a peace treaty and the delimitation and demarcation of the border between Armenia and Azerbaijan. "If these issues are resolved, then the issue of peacekeepers will stand differently. If they are not resolved to some extent, then the fate of our peacekeeping contingent depends on it," he said, adding that Armenia and Azerbaijan "expressed their gratitude to Russia" for their work on the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh.

None of the parties made public statements right after the summit or their separate talks with Putin. The Sochi summit underscored Russian efforts to regain the initiative in the Armenian-Azerbaijani negotiating process, coordinated by the United States and the European Union in recent months. Moscow has been very critical of the Western mediation, saying it aims to "squeeze Russia out of the South Caucasus".
 
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Amarante

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(panorama.am, nov.24)
[armenianPM] Pashinyan refuses to sign CSTO document on Armenia

Nikol Pashinyan has refused to sign a draft declaration of the Moscow-led Collective Security Treaty Organization’s (CSTO) Collective Security Council and a draft of joint assistance measures for Armenia as it failed to condemn Azerbaijan’s aggression against Armenia.
The Armenian prime minister said at the CSTO Collective Security Council summit in Yerevan on Wednesday that the CSTO's political assessment of Azerbaijan's attacks against Armenia is important, the government's press office reported.
“The political assessment of the above events is necessary first of all from a moral point of view, because it should be a logical manifestation of allied relations. Of course, this is also important from the point of view of restoring the territorial integrity of our country, but this desire in itself does not mean military intervention. According to Article 3 of the CSTO Charter, priority is given to political measures when it comes to collectively protecting the territorial integrity of the member states,” he said.
“It is for this very reason that Armenia proposes to speed up the necessary political and diplomatic work with the Azerbaijani side, based on the decision of the CSTO Collective Security Council, aimed at the immediate and unconditional withdrawal of the Azerbaijani troops from the sovereign territory of the Republic of Armenia to their initial positions of May 11, 2021.
“Such a position is important not only for restoring the territorial integrity of the Republic of Armenia, but also for restraining Azerbaijan from further aggressive actions against our country. The fact that the risk of a renewed Azerbaijani aggression against Armenia's territorial integrity still remains, CSTO Secretary-General Stanislav Vasilievich Zas announced at the extraordinary session of the CSTO Collective Security Council on October 28 of this year. In these conditions, the lack of a clear political assessment of the situation and failure to make the above-mentioned decision may mean not only CSTO's refusal to implement alliance obligations, but also be interpreted by Azerbaijan as CSTO's green light for further aggression against Armenia.
“And this contradicts not only the letter, but also the spirit and nature of the fundamental documents of the CSTO. Therefore, based on this, dear colleagues, at this moment I think that the draft "On the declaration of the CSTO Collective Security Council and joint measures to provide assistance to the Republic of Armenia" presented for signing has not been sufficiently finalized, and in this form, with all due respect, I am not ready to sign these documents,” Pashinyan noted.
"explicit" photoshot:
(I think I hear ice cracking)
 

Lolwa

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Feb 6, 2020
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(panorama.am, nov.24)
[armenianPM] Pashinyan refuses to sign CSTO document on Armenia

Nikol Pashinyan has refused to sign a draft declaration of the Moscow-led Collective Security Treaty Organization’s (CSTO) Collective Security Council and a draft of joint assistance measures for Armenia as it failed to condemn Azerbaijan’s aggression against Armenia.
The Armenian prime minister said at the CSTO Collective Security Council summit in Yerevan on Wednesday that the CSTO's political assessment of Azerbaijan's attacks against Armenia is important, the government's press office reported.
“The political assessment of the above events is necessary first of all from a moral point of view, because it should be a logical manifestation of allied relations. Of course, this is also important from the point of view of restoring the territorial integrity of our country, but this desire in itself does not mean military intervention. According to Article 3 of the CSTO Charter, priority is given to political measures when it comes to collectively protecting the territorial integrity of the member states,” he said.
“It is for this very reason that Armenia proposes to speed up the necessary political and diplomatic work with the Azerbaijani side, based on the decision of the CSTO Collective Security Council, aimed at the immediate and unconditional withdrawal of the Azerbaijani troops from the sovereign territory of the Republic of Armenia to their initial positions of May 11, 2021.
“Such a position is important not only for restoring the territorial integrity of the Republic of Armenia, but also for restraining Azerbaijan from further aggressive actions against our country. The fact that the risk of a renewed Azerbaijani aggression against Armenia's territorial integrity still remains, CSTO Secretary-General Stanislav Vasilievich Zas announced at the extraordinary session of the CSTO Collective Security Council on October 28 of this year. In these conditions, the lack of a clear political assessment of the situation and failure to make the above-mentioned decision may mean not only CSTO's refusal to implement alliance obligations, but also be interpreted by Azerbaijan as CSTO's green light for further aggression against Armenia.
“And this contradicts not only the letter, but also the spirit and nature of the fundamental documents of the CSTO. Therefore, based on this, dear colleagues, at this moment I think that the draft "On the declaration of the CSTO Collective Security Council and joint measures to provide assistance to the Republic of Armenia" presented for signing has not been sufficiently finalized, and in this form, with all due respect, I am not ready to sign these documents,” Pashinyan noted.
"explicit" photoshot:
(I think I hear ice cracking)
Instead of doing tantrums which have no impact on reality. The Armenians should instead ask the Russians to sell them arms. If they fail they should ask the French to arm them, while buying drones and air defence from the Iranians and Chinese. Get second hand Soviet hardware if possible. Armenia really doesn't have the luxury of Azerbaijan to act like this at this critical moment. They should buy a huge amount of Iranian suicide drones and the shahed 129,136 series, Arash 2 and mohajer 6 drone.
Enough to harass the azeris.


 

Amarante

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Jun 22, 2021
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La Défense, France
Instead of doing tantrums which have no impact on reality. The Armenians should instead ask the Russians to sell them arms. If they fail they should ask the French to arm them, while buying drones and air defence from the Iranians and Chinese. Get second hand Soviet hardware if possible. Armenia really doesn't have the luxury of Azerbaijan to act like this at this critical moment. They should buy a huge amount of Iranian suicide drones and the shahed 129,136 series, Arash 2 and mohajer 6 drone.
Enough to harass the azeris.


Or join Nato?
I don't see where Iran is going at the moment.
 

Lolwa

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Or join Nato?
I don't see where Iran is going at the moment.
You want a joint invasion by Russia and Azerbaijan in Armenia??
@Lolwa, it's not just Armenia: all CSTO countries have seen that the "Godfather" Russia is incapable of ensuring "collective security". This is terrible.
Russia is incapable of ensuring "collective security" but it's capable of "collective destruction". If Russia goes down they will make sure half of Asia and America goes down with them.
 

jetray

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Mar 15, 2018
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Instead of doing tantrums which have no impact on reality. The Armenians should instead ask the Russians to sell them arms. If they fail they should ask the French to arm them, while buying drones and air defence from the Iranians and Chinese. Get second hand Soviet hardware if possible. Armenia really doesn't have the luxury of Azerbaijan to act like this at this critical moment. They should buy a huge amount of Iranian suicide drones and the shahed 129,136 series, Arash 2 and mohajer 6 drone.
Enough to harass the azeris.


they neither have money nor have ppl to fight the war. Unless azerbaijans oil industry is damaged and cash flow is shut off , chances of armenia warding them of is pretty bleak.
 

Doreamon

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Nov 11, 2022
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they neither have money nor have ppl to fight the war. Unless azerbaijans oil industry is damaged and cash flow is shut off , chances of armenia warding them of is pretty bleak.

Ajerbaizan is not some great power as well . Westbengal state of india is bigger than it . Proper weapon supply , strategy and Armenia might give a tough resistance . All it needs is , have the ability to inflict heavy damage on civilian as well as military infra . Which ll prevent any escalation from other side .

But in long term there is challenge . As Turkey keeps modernizing its defence industry and Azerbaijan keeps profiting from energy supply after Ukraine war .
 

Amarante

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Jun 22, 2021
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La Défense, France
(...) Russia is incapable of ensuring "collective security" but it's capable of "collective destruction". If Russia goes down they will make sure half of Asia and America goes down with them.
Black humor currently circulating in Russia, relayed by my brilliant anthropologist colleague @SashaArhi
The Kremlin spokesman is asked:
- Will Putin run for president in 2024?
Answer:
- Putin has not yet decided whether there will be a 2024.

:coffee: