Are we in state of undeclared war?

Arvind

The PoKeMon
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Dec 1, 2017
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India
LoC ceasefire violation happens, sporadically, which are understandable. But hardly few days passes that we heard X number of soldiers killed by Pakistan and in retaliation Y number of soldiers killed at Pakistan side.

Not only that, both of the forces are proudly boasting about how they neutralize each others posts by posting videos on social media site.

Such action concludes they are not anymore involuntary ceasefire cases, but an intentional assault TO KILL.

Why are we short of calling it an act of war?

What purpose does this serve apart from keeping a hysteria and hate alive in public? Does that lead to any solution?

Or the one sitting up higher are fine with few soldiers getting killed, getting their propaganda work, with no harm coming to them which a full blown war can bring?

@Aashish @vsdoc @vstol Jockey @@Ashwin @Ashutosh @Shashank @Ironhide @randomradio

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vsdoc

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LoC ceasefire violation happens, sporadically, which are understandable. But hardly few days passes that we heard X number of soldiers killed by Pakistan and in retaliation Y number of soldiers killed at Pakistan side.

Not only that, both of the forces are proudly boasting about how they neutralize each others posts by posting videos on social media site.

Such action concludes they are not anymore involuntary ceasefire cases, but an intentional assault TO KILL.

Why are we short of calling it an act of war?

What purpose does this serve apart from keeping a hysteria and hate alive in public? Does that lead to any solution?

Or the one sitting up higher are fine with few soldiers getting killed, getting their propaganda work, with no harm coming to them which a full blown war can bring?

@Aashish @vsdoc @vstol Jockey @@Ashwin @Ashutosh @Shashank @Ironhide @randomradio
Believe me, no civilian really cares. This is the plain and unmitigated truth I see in my life everywhere.

It is FAR away. On TV and in the newspapers. Twitter. Forums. Kill scorecards.

A war hits a civilian populace ONLY when there is a risk of a city being bombed.

Or worse, overrun by the enemy forces.

To your question. Yes we are at war. We have never stopped being at war since 1947.

Cheers, Doc
 
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Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,366
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India
Believe me, no civilian really cares. This is the plain and unmitigated truth I see in my life everywhere.

It is FAR away. On TV and in the newspapers. Twitter. Forums. Kill scorecards.

A war hits a civilian populace ONLY when there is a risk of a city being bombed.

Or worse, overrun by the enemy forces.

To your question. Yes we are at war. We have never stopped being at war since 1947.

Cheers, Doc
My whole argument is against the word "undeclared". Let it be what it is, you can not have normal business going on with a parallel war on other. Its cruel to the lost soul and families.
 

Superkaif

Well-Known member
Dec 21, 2017
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You know my feelings - A loss of a life - be it Indian OR Pakistan is a sad sad loss. My family vacated its house in Kashmir 40 years ago and has moved on. Would be nice one day to visit the beauty of Kashmir - be it in Pakistani or Indian hands - i dont care as long as bullets arent being fed.
No doubt retards will be gloating on the other side - but @Arvind - like i told you before - sitting behind a computer in an off licence posting death of soldiers and sniggering - is the pass time of a retard that is a failure in his real life.
Tell me who thinks its a good day when a child loses a father or a parent loses a son - or a wife a husband?
Screw those giving orders - screw those sniggering and posting shit - they have nothing to savour or be proud of in the real world bro
 

vsdoc

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My whole argument is against the word "undeclared". Let it be what it is, you can not have normal business going on with a parallel war on other. Its cruel to the lost soul and families.
I am trying to understand why.

What does it achieve?

What changes for the men who are fighting?

What changes for us as a nation?

What changes internationally?

Cheers, Doc
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,366
937
India
You know my feelings - A loss of a life - be it Indian OR Pakistan is a sad sad loss. My family vacated its house in Kashmir 40 years ago and has moved on. Would be nice one day to visit the beauty of Kashmir - be it in Pakistani or Indian hands - i dont care as long as bullets arent being fed.
No doubt retards will be gloating on the other side - but @Arvind - like i told you before - sitting behind a computer in an off licence posting death of soldiers and sniggering - is the pass time of a retard that is a failure in his real life.
Tell me who thinks its a good day when a child loses a father or a parent loses a son - or a wife a husband?
Screw those giving orders - screw those sniggering and posting shit - they have nothing to savour or be proud of in the real world bro
I am fine with retards behind their office computers, I am not fine with retards sitting behind a desk capable of making decisions on behalf of a nation and its armies.
 

Dagger

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
210
269
India
LoC ceasefire violation happens, sporadically, which are understandable. But hardly few days passes that we heard X number of soldiers killed by Pakistan and in retaliation Y number of soldiers killed at Pakistan side.

Not only that, both of the forces are proudly boasting about how they neutralize each others posts by posting videos on social media site.

Such action concludes they are not anymore involuntary ceasefire cases, but an intentional assault TO KILL.

Why are we short of calling it an act of war?

What purpose does this serve apart from keeping a hysteria and hate alive in public? Does that lead to any solution?

Or the one sitting up higher are fine with few soldiers getting killed, getting their propaganda work, with no harm coming to them which a full blown war can bring?

@Aashish @vsdoc @vstol Jockey @@Ashwin @Ashutosh @Shashank @Ironhide @randomradio
A summation of the LoC, which in an attempt to appear impartial, omits the overbearing truth.
One side is infiltrating and organizing an insurgency on the other side. And you paint them both the same? Are bullets and artillery not necessary to combat launching LeT jihadis in? Is it something to be handled diplomatically?
I concur with vsdoc. The war has been on since 1947. The lulls were merely gaps when yet another dastardly scheme is cooked up and served.
 
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Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,366
937
India
A summation of the LoC, which in attempt to appear impartial, omits the overbearing truth.
One side is infiltrating and organizing an insurgency on the other side. And you paint them both the same? Are bullets and artillery not necessary to combat launching LeT jihadis in? Is it something to be handled diplomatically?
I concur with vsdoc. The war has been on since 1947. The lulls were merely gaps when yet another dastardly scheme is cooked up and served.
You have mis-interpreted my post.

The question is when the supposed assault (for any reason) are happening TO KILL on purpose, why not declare an open war?

Or let me take a nationalist approach and say, when they are killing our jawans, targeting our posts and publishing videos, why this act has not been considered an act of war and why not punitive actions taken in ALL spheres, military, diplomacy, business and people to people?
 
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Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,366
937
India
I am trying to understand why.

What does it achieve?

What changes for the men who are fighting?

What changes for us as a nation?

What changes internationally?

Cheers, Doc
How nationalism help someone who dies? It always help those who lived.

Lets keep it there or I would be called anti national. :)
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
4,806
2,590
You have mis-interpreted my post.

The question is when the supposed assault (for any reason) are happening TO KILL on purpose, why not declare an open war?

Or let me take a nationalist approach and say, when they are killing our jawans, targeting our posts and publishing videos, why this act has not been considered an act of war and why not punitive actions taken in ALL spheres, military, diplomacy, business and people to people?
Everything must happen at the Right time

You must be seeing Pakistan's economic troubles

In next few months ; there will be more trouble

AND if pakistan is put in FATF Black list next week their economy will be in deep trouble

Also let us see how US -- Afghanistan-- Pakistan relations progress

There is a lot of tension on the Western Border

Pakistan has to be squeezed from all sides

That will make them bend
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
4,806
2,590
How nationalism help someone who dies? It always help those who lived.

Lets keep it there or I would be called anti national. :)
Please state clearly what you want to see happening

Pakistan will Not stop firing on the LOC

That is a GIVEN ; now what are your options

The unofficial Information coming from many sources on the internet is that
summers will be very hot for the Pakistanis
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,366
937
India
Please state clearly what you want to see happening

Pakistan will Not stop firing on the LOC

That is a GIVEN ; now what are your options

The unofficial Information coming from many sources on the internet is that
summers will be very hot for the Pakistanis
The well to do people are always afraid to die, here is my hint. ;)
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
4,806
2,590
The well to do people are always afraid to die, here is my hint. ;)
This is what exactly what the Pakistanis want

They are saying Brazenly that they can sacrifice 20000 soldiers in these LOC clashes

But they know that if India's casualties rise the Public and media pressure will force
us to go back to the ceasefire which was totally Beneficial to Pakistan
Because they could kill our soldiers without Feeling any Pain and retaliation
 

Dagger

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
210
269
India
You have mis-interpreted my post.

The question is when the supposed assault (for any reason) are happening TO KILL on purpose, why not declare an open war?

Or let me take a nationalist approach and say, when they are killing our jawans, targeting our posts and publishing videos, why this act has not been considered an act of war and why not punitive actions taken in ALL spheres, military, diplomacy, business and people to people?
I understand what you are driving at. The aam aadmi are simply bickering and mucking about when serious loss of life on their behalf is ongoing. As @vsdoc pointed out, we are numbed to the deaths of our soldiers and it simply doesn't constitute enough provocation for war.

But what after declaring war? We are stalemated in the current scenario.
The Pakistani side can't win a conventional war and capture Kashmir. Our side, for all its hot air, doesn't have enough care for the lives of its soldiers/ the spine or madness(perception) to risk nuclear exchanges.

As an aside, It is my idea, there is no such thing as a nationalist. It is simply self-preservation and an opinion on the best way to go about it. There are groups in the nation which want a separate nation and they declare themselves as nationalists for the imaginary future one.
 

Arvind

The PoKeMon
Moderator
Dec 1, 2017
1,366
937
India
I understand what you are driving at. The aam aadmi are simply bickering and mucking about when serious loss of life on their behalf is ongoing. As @vsdoc pointed out, we are numbed to the deaths of our soldiers and it simply doesn't constitute enough provocation for war.

But what after declaring war? We are stalemated in the current scenario.
The Pakistani side can't win a conventional war and capture Kashmir. Our side, for all its hot air, doesn't have enough care for the lives of its soldiers/ the spine or madness(perception) to risk nuclear exchanges.

As an aside, It is my idea, there is no such thing as a nationalist. It is simply self-preservation and an opinion on the best way to go about it. There are groups in the nation which want a separate nation and they declare themselves as nationalists for the imaginary future one.
Do you know what is the strength of a perceived fool? The intellect of others.

The bluff.

@STEPHEN COHEN
 
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vsdoc

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Feb 14, 2018
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my cave
I understand what you are driving at. The aam aadmi are simply bickering and mucking about when serious loss of life on their behalf is ongoing. As @vsdoc pointed out, we are numbed to the deaths of our soldiers and it simply doesn't constitute enough provocation for war.

But what after declaring war? We are stalemated in the current scenario.
The Pakistani side can't win a conventional war and capture Kashmir. Our side, for all its hot air, doesn't have enough care for the lives of its soldiers/ the spine or madness(perception) to risk nuclear exchanges.

As an aside, It is my idea, there is no such thing as a nationalist. It is simply self-preservation and an opinion on the best way to go about it. There are groups in the nation which want a separate nation and they declare themselves as nationalists for the imaginary future one.
Currently a large chunk of the nation is more busy with the war within.

They have no time for Pakistan.

Cheers, Doc